Lying in Wait with "Mr. Shotgun"

I'm glad criminals aren't usually smart. The burglar could have broken free and ran for it. Nothing he can do about it, unless he wants to get physical. Which is also not a good idea.

The only reason holding a criminal at gunpoint is not pointless is that criminals are stupid.

it's also possible that some criminals are smart enough to know that some homeowners are dumb enough to shoot an unarmed intruder despite the legalities.

True hehe.

The homeowner here raises a point. The police will not wait to catch the criminal when he comes to steal your stuff. The police will show up afterwards, collect evidence, and then leave you hanging while all of your stuff is gone. They may or may not eventually catch the guy, but have no illusions about the fact that they will not protect you or your property in any way, shape, or form.

He pulled it off, the element of surprise can be very effective. We sometimes
argue about the means to an end but you can't deny he got the job done.
Good for him and I hope that errant little burglar gets to meet a whole new set of friends starting with Bubba.

heh

Sounds like a motivated young man, the skell is lucky that he didn't get a blanket party.

I give kudos to Mr Homeowner. Criminals that do stuff like that deserved to get shot.period.

I believe that a significant percentage of criminals haven't thought through what they will do upon meeting effective resistance - but when you have the misfortune to run up against one who has there is a very good chance you have run out your string.

308Win

I believe that a significant percentage of criminals haven't thought through what they will do upon meeting effective resistance - but when you have the misfortune to run up against one who has there is a very good chance you have run out your string.

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+1 While you average BG just wants to grab your stuff and will usually run the second something dosent go right, the 1 that is "hard" would probably just shoot.

A long arm is not a good contact distance weapon (unless it has an attached bayonet and then it's application is still limited to that of a spear) and any use of one in such situations poses unnecessary risk to the user. Movies showing the butt used as an effective club aside, fighting with a unwieldy longarm in such situations gives the target almost a level playing field to start with. The situation could quickly become who is more capable of securing the longarm for thier own use, instead of giving you a clear advantage from the start.

Personaly I think a club or blackjack type item backed up by a sidearm would be a much more effective tool in such a situation. Of course those are illegal in CA even in the home as nobody fights for the right to own melee weapons, just firearms :banghead: A sword backed up by a firearm would also be highly effective, though not as ideal as a less lethal tool. I also think while effective the average jury member would have a harder time relating if you had to actualy inflict carnage with such a weapon than if you simply pulled the trigger on a gun :banghead:

So for such work a handgun is much more suitable, and you will at least in CA be hung out to dry more by using other weapons than simply using the firearm that more people can relate to in defending yourself. Meaning detaining a suspect without lethal force in CA if they pose a threat is much more difficult.

Also this article says he pulled the guy in, that is a big no no. If he pulled the guy from outside the dwelling into the dwelling then the guy did not break and enter, and in fact was kidnapped by the homeowner while technicaly not yet in the process of breaking any laws. Now if the suspect then proceeded to admit to his intentions the home owner is off the hook as consipracy to commit a crime is the same as commiting the crime under CA law. However if he was just at the door and denied criminal intent the home owner could be facing more serious charges than the criminal.

Arguably. I just would have answered the door with the shotgun and a "I know who you are, get off my property."

Few people would argue with the shotgun, especially unprepared for it. If he was already kicking in the door it's a different story.

Oh, and I have no illusions about how firmly I could wallop somebody with my Mossberg, especially with the pistol grip attached. Seems to me a lot of people deride the shotgun's "contact combat ability," and a lot of the same sorts of people praise Surefire E2D's with "strike bezels" on them.

I dunno, muzzle of my shotgun looks like a big strike bezel to me. And if it doesn't strike the way I want it to it can always go bang.

I wish I could find a link to another story similar to this one.

I can't remember all the details but it was something along the lines of there was an old guy who knew he couldn't physically take on the young punk who kept breaking into his place so he puts this trip-rope across his living room and sits on the opposite side with a gun and the phone. The punk breaks in at night and trips on the rope and looks up from the floor to see grandpa holding a shotgun on him from a few feet away. The line (recorded on a 911 call recording) was along the lines of "I'm feeling really threatened and my hands are very shakey right now so you'd better just STAY PUT young man".

Cops arrived a few minutes later and took the punk into custody.

Punks lawyer tried (unsuccessfully as I recall) to sue the old man for "boobytrapping" his house.

I don't open the door at night until I verify that it is safe to do so. If a person were to "invite themselves in" by busting the door. My shotgun is readily accessible. In this case, my first moves would be to get some distance and cover (if possible) between me and the BG.

That said,....

I would never, ever willingly move into contact range when dealing with a BG and was taught that in one of my home defense classes. Doing this immediately raises the BG's chances and lowers yours. You never know what you are dealing with. Could be a submissive "cut and run" burgler, or a 280 lb strongarm robber who is hopped up on meth or the latest drug du jour that makes him feel invincible. One situation can make you a "hero," the other may get you killed with your own <fill in the blank> weapon.

Personally I prefer smart over lucky in HD scenarios if at all possible.

If he doesn't do what I want with shotgun in his face I can always pull the trigger.

He did right. Took care of it himself.

Let me tell you what happened to my son....
In Sept. of 2000 his home was burglarized. Of the few things stolen were three handguns. Police came and did the paper work...all proper reports were made...serial numbers and guns description noted.

Less than one year later a man was arrested, and he had my sons S&W 422 pistol on him.

Last Wednesday 1-10-2007 he got a letter from Metro Police about his gun. My son contacted them only to be informed the pistol had been destroyed...in 2001. :banghead:

At this point I'm totally disgusted with the local cops, the T.B.I. and the whole system. I don't trust the cops as far as I can drag this house off the foundation!

Now, back to his thread. The cops would have come and gone...the BG would have come back...and more stuff would be gone The lawyers and lawmakers have given everything to the criminals and don't care. Makes you wonder who the real criminals are.

Mark.

Makes you wonder who the real criminals are.

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My opinion is that the biggest crooks are all voted into their positions.


I champion the fellow for taking matters into his own hands, but it was very risky. However, it also appears he knew what to expect from the police and knew it would leave the guy out in society instead of actually being caught. Police don't pay much atttention to property issues, they go after violent criminals with much more fervor.

Having been in the small Eagle River community on a visit several years back. I can only think this punk is lucky he didn't just "disappear". Alaska has a whole lot of places that bodies would never be found. Hearing a gunshot in that area probably wouldn't cause a stir with neighbors either, they would think you were chasing off a bear or stubborn moose out of your yard.

On a less malevolent note, hopefully this burglar will be violated in lockup and get a taste of what he's been giving people. He also has the opportunity to clean up his act and change his ways.

Was there any evidence this was some guy all jacked up on Meth or something? Sounds a lot like a meth head move to me. But I'm from the PNW where this stuff is a real problem, so I always kinda default to the meth-head scenario since it makes them do such dumb things.

hth

what jeff said is too true you hit someone hard enough to reliably stop em there is a decent chance you'll kill em. i've been real scared to hit folks a few times knowing how adrenalin can make you mess up and do more than you mean to

Noren grabbed the man who tried to come in the front door by the neck and held him at bay until police arrived.

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Way too risky.

He swung open the door and grabbed the surprised burglar by his collar.

"I was able to move quickly, snag his tail. And, me and Mr. Shotgun were able to convince him not to move," Noren said.

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Note that it's not stated how many times "Mr. Shotgun" got smacked into the BGs head, before he was convinced not to move!

(P.S.---the only gun I own that actually has a name id called "Mr. Twelve"

Originally posted by Jeff White:

I think that people who advocate going HTH as the first option, probably have never been in a real fight.

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And that is why I always at folks in this very forum who spout all sorts of nonsense regarding having to use your hands to fight with someone attacking you that does not have a visible weapon such as a knife, gun, pipe, etc. instead of drawing your firearm. It's foolishness. I have no obligation to go to fisticuffs with anyone. Bare fists ARE deadly force. This is especially true IF YOU A CARRYING A GUN! If you get knocked unconcious even for a few seconds you cannot control your firearm.

All bravado aside, if you are carrying a firearm and choose to engage an assailant in HTH when better options are available such as drawing your firearm or retreating then you had better be 100% sure you really are the next Bruce Lee and your opponent isn't because it may very well be the last decision you make.


I.C.