Cops shoot guy walking away in the back after pointing a cell phone at them.

Time will tell...

or will it?

There are definitely two camps here on this topic. They run the gamut, from armchair quarterbacks and keyboard commandos, to jackbooted thugs (to borrow stand-offish phrases). You can see the bias quite clearly from either end. Read Coronach's reply, and his profile. Where do you think he is coming from?

jsalcedo's account shows the other end. Were I a civil liberties lawyer, it would be one hell of a temptation.

I'm starting to wonder if it's a matter of stewardship, with respect to the public's tax money, but particularly of the public's trust. I learned that lesson early on in my nearly 20 years of military service - we work for the civilian populace, once everything is all said and done. With the FBI and DOJ now involved, it seems likely that stewardship is in the limelight again. I just pray that a certain blue wall of silence doesn't get in the way...

After watching all the clips and looking at all the stills I made my first post.
Then later my wife came home from work and I asked her to watch the video clips.
All I told her was that it involved a police shooting.
She watched the first clip, unit 138 I think and after the perp waved the silver object in the cops face I paused the video and asked her what he had in his hand. (It was off screen at that point.)

Having no prior coaching, not having seen the stills, ( I had not even told her the perp had anything in his hand), she clearly identified the object as a cell phone. She went on to say that his hand wasn't in a gripping position that would even make it look like a gun.
I replayed the clip and stopped it at the point he holds out the phone. No way can I believe that someone just feet away would believe this was a gun or a weapon. NO WAY!

I still believe that the idiot should have obeyed the cops, but as far as I am concerned, they executed him.

And personally this thread just points out the schisim between members of the LEO community and regular citizens. The US vrs THEM attitude is strong around here.

No, I watched it then I watched it 2 more times and then decided.

I used to want to be a cop then I ran into them professionally and found out what can happen to the human soul when exposed to that kind of environment.

she clearly identified the object as a cell phone. She went on to say that his hand wasn't in a gripping position that would even make it look like a gun

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Whatever dude - looking at the still I can't "CLEARLY IDENTIFY it as a CELLPHONE" - I admit, looking at the stills, it doesn't look like any gun I'm familiar with - but I can't say it's a cellphone. Amazing that your wife could by watching the video (which I still can't see, maybe it was more obvious in the video) - I'm extremely impressed if that really happened.
AND - she said it wasn't in a gripping position that made it look like a gun? Okay, I think just about everyone (on both sides) agreed he was holding it in a way that made it look like a gun.
Another example of one EXTREME. But hey, that's how you see it.
And about the dreaded "us vs them" - it goes both ways - there are those on the "them" side that drive just as big a wedge as some on the "us" side.

One other comment (not really directed at anyone):
I don't think the LEO that ducked did it for the camera. To me, it looks like a reaction of someone thinking, "oh crap, I'm about to get shot". Based on that, I think it's obvious that AT LEAST he thought it was a gun.

CR

Are they using .22 or 9's? Sure took a lot of shots to bring him down.

Are they using .22 or 9's? Sure took a lot of shots to bring him down.

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No, they were just using real handguns instead of movie handguns.

she clearly identified the object as a cell phone

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Wow! Was she able to tell if it was a cell phone gun or not?

Hey, mrat! Armchair quarterbacks? The view to my computer screen and the murder I just witnessed is the same wherever I sit.

If you think that us lowely citizens have no say in the affairs of how LE conducts its business, think again. If a career in LE leads any cop to a point where he/she can nolonger distinguish between right and wrong, than its time for them to GET OUT.

The perp in this case was being confronted by rogue cops. Bullies who cared only about the fact that this guy didnt bend his knee when they told him to and not the guides regarding the use of deadly force (UFC). That he dared to walk away and not OBEY their commands. And rather than knock him down and subdue him, they killed him for it.


MURDERED BECAUSE OF WOUNDED PRIDE. BUT THATS O.K., THERE IS A GOD.

You obviously have a major problem with LEOs.

How someone can watch these crummy videos and throw out comments such as "wounded pride", "rogue cops", "murderers", etc. is beyond me. I am simply amazed that you actually believe this bonehead was shot for simply refusing to obey their commands thus wounding their pride. Do you have any idea how many times in a work week LEOs have their commands ignored?

Knock down and subdue someone who you think is armed and behaving like this idiot? Help yourself.

The hero in our story is 100% responsible for his actions and what happened to him due to his actions.

There is something that you have to remember about cops, most of them are complete losers who have failed at everything else they have tried. When they get a job in law enforcement, after Burger King and Taco Bell have both told them that they don’t have what it takes, they get an attitude.

Drug laws are the greatest boon for law enforcement that ever existed. The morons can actually pretend that they are doing something worthwhile, and push out their chests and talk about the evils of drugs.

The only reason that the war on drugs exists is because, in the immortal words of Governor William J LaPetomaine: “We’ve got to protect our phony baloney jobs.â€

The situation could have been handled better

Maybe

Does the cop have to be responsible for every round fired?

Yes

Does said cop feel sad that he had to take a life?

Up to him

Does his family care about the dead?

Probly not up to them

Does the family of the dead hate the cop?

Probly up to them

As a cop if all you got is a hammer then all problems start look like a nail

To all Leo’s

Your job can suck sometimes

Better you than me

I would rather fight wars

Fewer rules on what to do with GB's (when in doubt shoot all GB's)

He with sin cast the first stone



All truth

You decide what to do with it


.02 taken with salt

mrat

No. I dont have a problem with LEO'S. I have a problem with cowardly cops who chase unarmed perps while shooting them down.

I take it your a cop, or strongly supportive of LE as a whole. Great. So am I . I have many friends who are cops and It sickens me that this kind of activity works more to one day harm them in the field because of the resulting hostility that follows.

These particular cops crossed the line. They turned criminal, ROGUE, the moment they shot this idiot running, knowing he had only a cell phone (had I done this, thinking he had a gun, they would throw me in jail and tossed the key). If I could make it out watching this "crummy video", Im damn sure they could standing a few feet away.

The fact that you and many others here will not acknowledge this, well, what does that say? That there is a substantial number of people who believe that it is O.K. to not hold LE accountable when they themselves act in a criminal manner. Cops are people right? Well, than these people, from what my eyes witnessed, committed a crime. The badge, the uniform, the honor was lost this night. And they should be prosecuted.

FINAL NOTE: When I stop to think about the hundreds of threads posted on TFL and here at THR regarding the fatal BATFE and FBI abuses against gunowners in this country and what we have had to endure. It disheartening that we find ourselves selective in what we see as corruption and the abuse of power. This defines hypocrisy.


RANT/OFF

Gundolero:

As a police officer you must realize that you are going to have a slight disadvantage when facing a suspect

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Boy; there's a pearl of wisdom if i've ever read one...



Dash Riprock: Super Size that one for me. pardner.

Suicide buy cop.

12-34hom.

i'd say,,,

unless youre ready to take up the fight with the animals in this society and throw your life on the line on a daily basis you oughta stick to your regular jobs.

if you think you can do so much better, i'm sure the LEO's around here would be happy to let you have a go.

i doubt theres a bunch of police officers sitting around carefully reviewing and re-reviewing the videos of your performance at YOUR job.

the perp was a dumb*** who thought he could scare the cops away with his cellphone, it didnt work.

moral: don't try this at home, for obvious reasons.

i say they (the police) were in the right.

end of story.

don't blame the police for protecting themselves and ultimately YOU.

hows that saying go about walking a mile in another person's shoes?

sure, its easy to sit in front of your monitor and make the calls...

I'm neither pro, or anti law enforcement. I know a large number of police officers. Like all professions they cover the whole range of personality types.

I've watched the tape(s) probably 10 times.

If you watch tape "138" when the guy spun around rapidly, if I was either officer I would have fired.

Of course they didn't have the luxury of watching it 10x's and frame by frame and sitting around 20 minutes thinking about it either.

It wouldn't have been much of a trick to grab a gun from his coat before he wheeled around. Going purely on the way he spun around and presented himself, I would have assumed it was a gun and fired.

The part that puzzles me, the officer on the right fires 5? times and the guy doesn't even seem to flinch.. Then the officer left fires 2? times and he drops.. Of course deadly force is deadly force, 30 shots or 1 dead is dead.

My lack of training / knowledge of the whole process makes my opinon pretty much a wash, as I definately fall into the arm-chair quaterback category.

Perhaps cell phones should be banned just like toy guns in NYC?


Leo

cordex, that's outstanding--"movie handguns." You are wise beyond your years, brasshopper. The force is strong in this one.

WHAT? You mean that someone used a firearm against a fellow human being and there's an aftermath??? From reading the gun nut boards on the Errornet, I thought that the officers would get an award from the Chamber of Commerce and have lunch with the mayor?

I'm going to remember this thread the next time some gun shoppe commando/Batman tells me that Problem #2 is an illusion of paranoid criminal defense lawyers who sit around and wring their hands over everything.

We do not have all the evidence, of course. From what I see, very defensible position for the police in both criminal and civil courts. We shall see what transpires.

>>The part that puzzles me, the officer on the right fires 5? times and the guy doesn't even seem to flinch.. Then the officer left fires 2? times and he drops.. Of course deadly force is deadly force, 30 shots or 1 dead is dead. <<

Not puzzeling at all. People just don't drop over dead or fly thorugh theair, or buck backwards or anything else like TV or the movies show. He started dying probably when the first round went in him and possibly through him. It takes a time for someone to expire from a gun shot. The cops don't know this, they just keep firing until he is down. I would do the same if ifelt threatened and was scared.

No mateer what your training is, you constitution, your perceived level of bravery etc. You will be scared when faced with a letahl threat... its a natural reaction.

I have a problem with cowardly cops who chase unarmed perps while shooting them down.

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All the more reason for the cops to have emptied a 12 gauge through the driver's side window of the missle that the scumbag was flying down the streets of that town just moments before.

A POS criminal is dead. What exactly is the downside of that again.

No, they were just using real handguns instead of movie handguns.

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Actually, if they were using movie guns, the cop would have dodged out of the way, pulled out an Uzi and began blasting away. Suddenly, everything would be turned to slow motion as the BG gets pumped full of bullets. Regardless, he would fall down. But just as the cop approaches, he would get up wielding his cell phone, as the 2nd back up cop (who had been reluctant to shoot him before) puts in a round to end it all. Right?

Folks, we've had long enough to discuss this. Frankly, this thread was over the line yesterday. It's way over the line now.

If you want to say that all cops are "losers who failed at everything else they did" or call the other side stupid, you have that right. But you will not do it here.

That leaves my job very clearly defined. I must either convince you not to say such stupid and bigoted things, or I must suspend your posting privileges at THR. I'm sure everyone can agree on which of those options we all prefer. Please do your part by moderating your comments.

CLOSED.