Older Smith & Wesson vs. New ?!

What is the big deal ?! Im new to revolvers but since I've been on these boards I've seen so much bashing of newer smith revolvers. What is the big deal? Is it just the locks and MIM parts that make it a lower quality somehow or is it the politics behind the newer locks, or is it just a bunch of older people that cant or do not know how to handle change ? what is really going on ??

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Besides the things you mention, the quality of manufacture was better before the 1980s. Post 1980s quality was good enough that they are still a lot better than their more recent stuff. Not that they don't have good ideas, but MIM and locks just pushed them over the edge to the point where you are much better off getting a pre lock and pre MIM gun, and even better yet getting a pre1980s S&W. Have to admit, though, that I have pre1980s, post1980s and very recent production S&Ws. I get the recent ones because of the super lightweight models and the Mountain Guns. Those are the only two good things they are doing. Too bad they couldn't do that without MIM and without the locks, and with the same quality control they had pre-1980s. Now that would be something.

For some reason, I dont see many older smiths in the shops that I go to. I dont get to see and feel this difference that im hearing about. I go to pawn shops, and gun shops and gunshops/ranges. most of the guns on the "used" shelves are more modern guns and semi-automatic primarily. Is there someplace special I'd need to go to brush up against the classics ?

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How old are you talking? The only S&W revolvers I see at gun shops are probably from the 70s- early 90s. I hardly ever see any of the new ones outside of gun shows. The gun shops around here don't want to carry $700+ revolvers as there is not much of a market for them.

Is there someplace special I'd need to go to brush up against the classics ?

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www.armchairgunshow.com

For some reason, I don't see many older smiths in the shops that I go to. I don't get to see and feel this difference that I'm hearing about. I go to pawn shops, and gun shops and gunshops/ranges. Most of the guns on the "used" shelves are more modern guns and semi-automatic primarily. Is there someplace special I'd need to go to brush up against the classics ?

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Well, you could have gone to the "Smith-Wesson Forum" and gotten some good information on where to find the "classics". But, since you have spoken ill of the guys on that forum I guess you have to "wander in darkness" !!

Well, you could have gone to the "Smith - Wesson Forum" and gotten some good information on where to find the "classics". But, since you have spoken ill of the guys on that forum I guess you have to "wander in darkness" !!

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......I guess you didn't get the message. Some of us would rather not have this thread shut down. We've moved on...or back on topic, that is to say. Thanks for not trolling !

-regards

New S&W

The only problem with the new S&W revolvers is the lock.
Stainless has less friction then carbon steel, MIM and CNC take less labor and cost less to produce.
If you take the new cost of older S&W pistols and convert to our current Gold price you will see we get stronger pistols for less money.
MY last old style blued guns M-29 and M-14 were made in the 70-80's. There not that great on the inside.

Don,
You will likely see the largest concentrations of old Smith & Wessons at collector types of gun shows. These shows are more for showing, not selling, or they are only open to the general public on the second day. Next would be regular gun shows. Of course, the best place to learn is in a collector's home.

Many gun shops have a "fine gun room" where they keep high dollar guns for people to consider. The shops don't keep them under the glass because:
1. they know these guns only sell to a few types of customers,
2. they don't want paw prints all over them and they don't want the cylinders Bogarted to death,
3. it gets old having someone dicker when they don't know what they are talking about.

Just ask if your favorite store has a "fine gun room". You might be surprised. Make a few friends among older gun nuts. You might get lucky.

Don,

Seeing as how you are from Georgia, of course I'm not sure where in Georgia, but there are a number of good sized towns in your area. Several times a year one or the other will have a gun show. Find out when those shows are and plan a trip.

Keep an eye open at the ranges you go to for what folks are shooting and ask if you can see their guns. Most shooters will be glad to have you take a look.

Within a 50 mile radius of where you live there are likely at least half a dozen gun shops. Make the rounds on a regular basis.

Start a thread here where you ask folks from your area what gun shops they frequent. You may turn up a place or two you were unaware of.

While some variants of S&Ws are rare older smiths as a whole are very common. Kinda like a street called "Peachtree" in Georgia. Not every street is called that but they ain't hard to locate.

tipoc

Many gun shops have a "fine gun room" where they keep high dollar guns for people to consider. The shops don't keep them under the glass because:
1. they know these guns only sell to a few types of customers,
2. they don't want paw prints all over them and they don't want the cylinders Bogarted to death,
3. it gets old having someone dicker when they don't know what they are talking about.

Just ask if your favorite store has a "fine gun room". You might be surprised. Make a few friends among older gun nuts. You might get lucky.

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This is purely a matter of local circumstance.

Here in the Cleveland area, that sort of thing simply doesn't exist, at least not to my knowledge. Mostly what we have here is small quantities of new lock S&Ws, overpriced Kimbers, SIGs, etc. and GROSSLY overpriced used firearms. On the other hand, when you head towards Akron/Canton, you start seeing SERIOUS gunstores with INTERESTING firearms.

I'm not exactly on the "one gun a month plan," but in the last couple of years I've obtaind several post-war S&W revolvers, and two earlier ones, from one single dealer who is reliable and sometimes has an interesting selection. This firm (On Target Guns & Gunsmithing) is located in Kalamazoo, Michigan and you'll find them on www.gunbroker.com

Another good (and completely reliable) source is Jim Supica, who co-authored Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson (3rd. Edition). You will find him at www.armchairgunshow.com If you are looking for something in particular send him an e-mail. Many guns sometimes come and go before the site is updated.

Both of these companies will ship to foreign countries like Georgia...

Has anybody compared the price difference between a new Smith and Ruger in todays market and the days before Smith started cost cutting?

As I understand it,Smith has allways been a fair bit higher than Ruger. With Smith cheapening their guns,the gap should be narrower,correct ?

The cost of producing a gun has nothing to do with the selling price.

The usual reason for taking cost out of the manufacturing of an item is to increase profits (or decrease losses). If they take cost out and then lower the price, they gain nothing.

The cost of producing a gun has nothing to do with the selling price.

The usual reason for taking cost out of the manufacturing of an item is to increase profits (or decrease losses). If they take cost out and then lower the price, they gain nothing.

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What about remaining competitive?

What about remaining competitive?

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The name does that part.

To remain competitive, reducing the asking price (and the profit) is usually the first action taken, because it can be done instantly. Sales, promotions and give-aways fall into the same category - improving the apparent value of the product at the expense of profits.

Cost reductions take time for redesign, tooling and testing, and typically are done to restore or improve profitability.

Enfield is correct, and Smith & Wesson has done both. Currently their revolvers can handle today's hotter Magnum or Plus-P loads without problems that these cartridges caused in the past. That's good, but other "improvements" have degraded the smooth double action they were once famous for, and fit & finish isn't what it was. We have also seen, for all practical purposes, the end of blued steel/high carbon steel revolvers. This is sad for those that prefer this material over stainless. It is up to the consumer to decide which features they prefer, but after looking at the company's latest MSRP list I think that the used guns offer even more exceptional values.

But then I'm not interested in shooting .357 Magnums in a 16 oz. gun...

Of course, S&W now has several blued models available in .38 Special, .357 Mag, .44 Special, and .45ACP -- and maybe others. They are not the guns of yesterday but they are very nice IMO. A new blued steel S&W revolver with wood stocks can be had, if one is willing to pay the price.

My 22-4 is my favorite revolver, and the new 3" models look really good.

A new blued steel S&W revolver with wood stocks can be had, if one is willing to pay the price.

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I think that's the rub.

I still get upset when I see what is passed off under the name of S&W at the local gun store. The most recent infuriating was the "registered" magnum they have. Even the dealer was embarrassed enough that he told me he was going to ship it back.

I was picking up a 4" pre-war Heavy Duty and compared it to the 'registered' magnum. The fit and finsh of the modern gun was terrible when compared to the 1940 gun. The polish was rougher in the modern gun, the fit of the grips was gappy, the gun was just wrong.

As a true Registered Magnum owner, I was appalled to see how they had butchered the good name of Registered's everywhere.

To add insult to injury, they wanted more for that gun then I paid for my Registered when I bought it.


So, I think the problem is US, the buying public. We buy the margin quality guns that S&W produces so there is no incentive to make them better. If no one bought their products and complained about the quality and the fit and finish, then they would correct the problem or go bankrupt. Unfortunately, looking at their stock, we the buying public seem to be buying everything they produce. Ergo, why make a better product?

I for one have simply said "enough" and wont buy anything with MIM or Locks in them. There are many many nice Pre-Numbered N frames just waiting for me....

As a true Registered Magnum owner, I was appalled to see how they had butchered the good name of Registered's everywhere.

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Just think how I felt when they came out with a plastic shell shucker and called it a M&P!

Just think how I felt when they came out with a plastic shell shucker and called it a M&P!

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And that makes two of us....

Mr Eich, I agree with you, and we are not alone. Based on what I've read and seen personally, you couldn't give me one of the new S&W revolvers. I also agree, that it adds insult to injury that the company is reissuing the old names and model numbers. I just bought a LNIB 586-3. That's how they will have to make them, to earn my buisness. There are a small number of cheerleaders on the gunboards, saying how great the current products are, the vast majority of opinions I read, don't agree. I read in the paper Sunday, that S&W is selling alot of Sigma pistols overseas. That's accounting for alot of the rosy sales figures. Wonder what the numbers will look like at the conclusion of those contracts. The paper also said the new company chief was not a "gun guy". No kidding, ya think!

We have seen the future

The recent demise of the Winchester 1894 production, and the systematic sell off of Winchesters assets, may well be the future for Smith & Wesson.
The ability to sell firearms made in the USA is dicy.