Do you REALLY need a lawyer

When there is a fatality there will most likely be some type of litigation. As far as "consequences", I doubt there will be any especially given that scenario. You may have to go to the cop station (To do a police report), but there would be no need to hire a lawyer. There will be no criminal charges against you. The family of the criminal may attempt to pursue a civil suite for wrongful death (I doubt this would happen). As long as the police report shows you acted in self-defense there should be no way possible for you to receive any type of punishment.

Definitely #2

"Officer, thank God you are here!... answer some questions? Oh man I was so scared I really need to calm down a little first." (then call your lawyer while calming down).

I am not knocking the cops, I used to be one, but the officer that shows up at your house is not your buddy and has absolutely no idea who you really are or what really happened and he's going to start probing for data because, to him EVERYONE is a suspect (anything you can can and will be used against you).

Also, don't go filling out any reports or anything until about 48 hours have passed. The psychological impact of shooting someone and this mental stress will often make people say/do the damnedist things right after. Reherse the "I'm too upset to talk" line and get your lawyer (someone who isn't currently mentally traumatized by a shooting and can think calmly) to be a buffer between you and everyone else until the immediate stress period has passed.

Oh and if (God forbid) you should ever find yourself in this sort of a situation do NOT under any circumstances talk to the press.

I agree

That's my take on it too. The way I read the law is if some one breaks into my house and I excercise my right to defend my self and my home I don't face arrest. I would expect to have to go down and file a report, but no arrest. Also if it's a justified shoot as this would be then no civil charges can be filed either. This also applies to your car. They wouldn't get shot if they weren't doing the crime. God, I love this state.

I will go a step further. EVERYONE who has a gun for home defense should have a lawyer, preferably on retainer. EVERYONE who carries a gun DEFINITELY needs a lawyer on retainer.

But you do need to cooperate with the police and answer reasonable questions; if you don't do so, you can be charged with obstructing an officer. You don't need a lawyer until you are actually arrested (the Miranda warning given); up to that time, nothing you say can be used against you, but the police will certainly notice any discrepancies between the initial officer's report and any later statement you make.

But just because you are in your home, or the person you shot broke in, doesn't automatically get you home free. Take a case where you got into a drunken brawl earlier and threatened to kill someone; the other guy decides to get you first and breaks in. You may be in the right if you shoot him, but I guarantee a court is not going to see you as a totally innocent victim. Or a case where you stashed a couple of kilos of H for your buddy, then tried to hold him up for a lot of money, telling him "come and get it if you dare." Not exactly an innocent senior citizen defending his home.

So a cop investigating a "home invasion" is not going to take your word that you are the pure as snow (pun) victim of a home invasion, and walk away whistling. The cops will investigate and a prosecutor may bring charges.

Jim

Do you REALLY need a lawyer?

That depends if they press charges. Quite a few times they haven't. If they do, then of course you should get one. I don't think you need on on retainer but you should have one in mind.

OK.

Here's a rule of thumb:

If there's a dead guy sitting in a puddle of his own blood on your floor,

and you put him there,

you need a lawyer.


People talk themselves into jail every day. Nobody every talked himself out.

Yes you need a lawyer...

Any time you think to your self: Self, do I need a lawyer? You already should have called one. After the bang, you call the police, then your lawyer.

Look at it this way. Most folks will not be in the right state of mind after something like that happens to be answering any questions that may affect the rest of thier lives. You could be in a state of shok or PTSD and you might say something really stupid that you dont mean that the cops could take the wrong way. Next thing you know you are in cuffs, and now you *really* need a lawyer.

A friend of my father always said that if something like that ever happens, tell the police that you are too shaken up, or you want to see a doctor, tell them that you are having chest pain... but do not answer any questions untill after the adrenaline has worn off and you can compose your self a bit.

LawDog Comments

Courtesy of our own LawDog, here are some words of wisdom:

I will tell you right up front that any comments made by your Humble Scribe are worth exactly what you paid for them.

First off -- and I cannot stress this enough -- anyone who carries, or owns, a gun or a knife needs to know a lawyer.

First thing tomorrow -- or as early as possible -- find yourself a lawyer who is familiar with self-defense cases and the weapons laws of your state.

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It would seem that he believes it's a good idea to know a lawyer.

(I would, myself, carry a pocket-lawyer, but I don't have a permit for one yet.)

I teach this in my CCW class, and I can always see a couple of folks in the class get this glazed over look on their faces, as they think "sheesh, I don't need no lawyer. I'm the good guy!"

WRONG!

Cops don't know you from anybody. The situation you outlined above is one of those cherrypicked perfect scenarios, but I've got about 30 others that ain't so clear, and they won't be clear to the cops either.

And everyone reacts differently to shooting somebody. Outside of the internet, very few people are 100% cool and collected after just having had someone try to harm them and having to shoot in self defense. The last thing you need to do is say something really really stupid that will be used against you in court.

Since you don't know what your situation is going to be, have your mental default set on Call Lawyer. And it doesn't hurt to already know some, or if you can afford to, have one on retainer.

And a note on Castle Doctrine. It isn't magic. The rules of self defense still apply. Most of the country has been operating on Castle Doctrine forever, and we still have shooters get prosecuted for doing stupid stuff.

Yes you will

You need a lawyer in any event of a shooting whether justified or not. Also you should never explain to the officers on scene what happened in detail until you speak with a lawyer. They will want you to tell them everything but all you should do is point out that you fired at the attacker and point tell the officer that "you will sign the complaint" the officer will respect that you know this term and hopefully not push you too hard. Make sure that you don't get rattled and start gabbing away that often can get you in trouble if you say the wrong thing.

You should say:

"officer I fired in self defense there should be evidence on the ground (point out all shell casings), I am willing to sign the complaint, I would like nothing more than to help but I feel I shouldn't say anything more until I speak with my attorney"

say no more until you speak with council and have a chance to think over the events carefully. You have to be thinking straight after a self defense shooting and most people aren't, saying the wrong thing because you think you have to can often come back to bite you later in court. Yes you will have to go to court and yes it can be very expensive to shoot someone in self-defense. Remember it can't be determined even with castle doctrine on your side whether it was a justified shooting incident until the police fully investigate, having a lawyer is key to proving your case and will help guide you through the legal battle ahead.

Go talk to a lawyer where you live and carry their business card with you wherever you go out armed. Its good to find a lawyer ahead of time that way they are familiar with who you are and your character, it will make it easier for them to defend you.

Also remember that the officers on scene are not going to try and be your friend and show sympathy, pat you on your back and tell you what a great shot you are. They are going to hound you for information, may be quite mean if you don't tell them what they want to know and even threaten you if you don't tell them. You must be very strong, stand your ground and insist that you see your lawyer, no matter what they tell you and say could happen to you if you don't talk to them, you have a the right to legal council first and you should use it.

For the love of everything, SHUT UP! How many times, just this week, have I seen a bad situation made even worse by someone: 1. too scared to shut up, 2. someone who thought they were smarter than the police (yeah, Jasper, that ALWAYS works), 3. someone who actually believes the police.

You think you are smart enough to describe the "active dynamic" and then shut up? "That man tried to kill me." Great, now shut up.

Do not believe the police. They are not your friends. Don't fall for the detectives' tricks, offer of a cigarette, talk about completely off topic things such as sports in order to get your mouth moving, the detectives talking to each other about hypotheticals, inter alia.

"I invoke my right to remain; I wish to telephone my attorney."

Problem #2 despite the protestations of the Gun Shoppe Commandos of the Errornet, does exist and it has many, many heads.

The chances of someone breaking into your house and robbing you are very slim. If a person is breaking into your house - he has a reason. There is something in there that you have that he wants.

Except in the case of a pure crack head - that is so stoned out of his mind that he doesn't know where he is at or what he is doing. Most logical people wouldn't break into someone's house.

So if they are there and they are looking for something.. Chances are you either showed it to them before or they bought something off of you in the past and now they either feel ripped off or else they want more and you are not home.

If a person is brave enough to actually break into your house and try to rob you. What will he get? A tv, stereo and VCR isn't worth as much now as it was 30 years ago. A dvd player, a I Pod and a Lap Top computer might be worth a little more. Even if they got your car -- how far could they get before it runs out of gas?

Most people do not keep large sums of money.. Heck, most people I know are broke and owe money. What else is there left to get. SEX with your wife or gf - most times you would probably pay the guy to take her in welcome.

I'd much rather have a lawyer and not need a lawyer, than to need a lawyer and not have a lawyer.

The Rifleman,
What the HE*L is wrong with you?

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+25 on that, I was wondering the same thing. I guess he's having an off day.

I've been practicing criminal law for 30 years. You need a lawyer. Do not make statements without a lawyer. The police may not record your statement correctly. What they write down you live with. "I will make a complete statement after confering with my lawyer" will NEVER get you in more trouble. The police will try to get you to waive your right to an attorney. They will use lots of language you hear on TV all the time. TV is fiction. You should ask the officer if he has a tape recorder so you can record your request for an attorney.

We have a saying around here: "Our clients have the right the remain silent, just not the ability". Planning ahead is critical. It should be as important for you to know what to do after as it is to know what to do when.

Killing someone, justified or not is a serious legal matter.

If you had a serious injury, would you say "it's just a flesh wound" and go for the band-aids, or see a doctor?

Read Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets

2 things from me:

1. Remember that whatever you say to the Police, EVEN BEFORE YOU HAVE BEEN MIRANDIZED!!!, can be used against you in Court, PROVIDED that you are not 'In Custody'. If you are just sitting in your living room talking to them, they DON'T have to Mirandize you. People always screw that up. Miranda warnings are Required ONLY for Custodial Interrogations. If you are free to leave, then they can ask all they want. For all intents and purposes, ANYTHING you say to a Government Official you should expect to have read back, verbatim, to a Jury. (Note: IANAL, so any Lawyers can point out the few States where this might not be true.)

2. Read the book, Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets. It is the book that the NBC Series 'Homicide: Life On The Street' was based on. I have never read a more clear warning against talking to the Police in my life. It makes all the tricks perfectly clear, and repeatedly shows how the Police are NOT your friend in an investigation. Just read it, it is also a damn good read. Once I started it, I couldn't put it down.

Futuristic

P.S. Anyone who thinks they are going to Kill someone, however Justifiably, and NOT need a Lawyer is playing without a full deck.

i am not a lawter, but i like this approach.

tell the police that you are too shaken up, or you want to see a doctor, tell them that you are having chest pain...

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if unable to avoid questions, keep the answers simple, yes/no if possible.

Nobody's said it, so I will: Every bullet you send downrange has a lawyer attached. No exceptions.

A lawyer speaking on self defense issues told me this. Basically, you will need to have a lawyer if you are involved in a shooting.

That shaking, tingling feeling in the tips of your toes and fingers (like you just mainlined a vat of coffee) is adrenaline. It does different things to each and every one of us. Some people are reduced to blubbering cry-babies after the shooting stops, and still, others become Chatty Cathy and can't. shut. up. The responses range far and wide after the shoot and the adrenaline stops flowing. You need to know how to act and react after the smoke clears.

I had an attorney tell me to call him anytime, day or night, if I was involved in a shooting...before I call 911. He said to get him on the phone and then conference 911 in and explain the situation. I guess to be an independent witness to the call. He didn't explain in great detail.

Another attorney once told me that the best thing to do was call 911 and ask for medical assistance first before the cops. This sounds like the best advice. Reason being, you may only be dealing with one bad guy and not know if he is dead, dying, wounded or playing possum. Get on the horn and say, "Someone's been shot, I need an ambulance." Sure enough, when they hear gunshot, 911 will get the police out there toot sweet anyway. Also, calling for an ambulance is playing to the jury. If you have to go before a criminal/civil/grand jury, and they hear the 911 tape asking for an ambulance first, that shows compassion. If there are eyewitnesses to the event, they can testify and corroborate your calling for medical assistance, too.

This second attorney told me you need to make a phone call to an attorney NO MATTER WHAT!!! You don't have to say anything in great detail to the cops when they ask. Like other posters before me, just keep it basic. The first contact with the cop should be something along these lines:

COP: What happened here?

YOU: Officer, this man broke into my home and refused to leave when I asked him to. He attacked me and I shot him in self-defense.

At this point, the officer may start asking specific questions. Your response should be something along the lines of this: "Officer, I am really shaken up right now. I will be happy to give you a full statement and answer any questions you have. A family member and my attorney are on their way, and I would like the opportunity to get my wits about me until they get here. Is there a paramedic nearby who can check on me and my wife?

Given the situation, you probably will not have all your wits about you. The police should understand this. Remember to ALWAYS tell the truth. It will look very bad on you if you embellish, fudge, or just flat out lie to the police. Remember: "Whatever you say can AND will be used against you in a court of law." Give the police the straight facts and nothing else.

Chances are that lawyer will come in handy. You just took the life of someone's son/daughter. They will be very upset and out for blood. In today's litigious society, people sue because the coffee was too hot. You think they are going to let you slide because Junior was a three strike criminal and the family knew it? You may take the ride downtown and the Grand Jury could no-bill you without a second glance, but rest assured my first comment in this post will ring true. The family of the dearly departed mutant will seek compensation. You will probably stand before a judge in a wrongful death civil suit. Your actions before/during/after the shoot are very important.

Having a lawyer present will help you get the facts straight and your foot out of your mouth. The attorney knows the law, that's what he spent all that money on law school for.

The only safe answer is yes, get a lawyer. But one reason why this is the only safe answer is we can't tell right now what the facts and circumstances will be. If it really is a clear cut case in a jurisdiction with cops you trust and a DA you know and favorable laws, then it's probably never going to advance beyond taking a statement. But who can say if it will be this easy? When you've just killed someone, there's also a natural tendency to get in confessional mode and do some mea maxima culpas. That's a really bad idea when you're dealing with law enforcement. They're not your priest. And you may not be the best judge of your own actions, esp. when your blood is up.

I would agree that, if at all possible, you should have an attorney readily at hand. I would make simple statement as to the guy broke in, feared for my life and stopped him..and then stop till your attorney can show up. I would also hope that your immediate family or anyone present would be smart enough to just keep their mouth shut. If there's more than one person involved, there usually a weak minded person who "submit" to a investigators questions and could inadvertently give a bad spin on things. Shooting someone is a very serious thing, legally, and you should have a professional to deal with those legal matters.