Writer wants to get it right

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vikingjs

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A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I am writing a story in which one of the characters knows far more about firearms than I do. I can now confidently say SIG P226 X-FIVE Tactical chambered in .40SW with a 14-round magazine and know what I'm talking about (even if I can't remember right now if the tactical is SAO). I'm learning an awful lot about ammunition, more than I think I need to know, but there's a lot.

So I think I'm doing better than a lot of writers so far. The thing is, this character really, really, knows guns. I think I have avoided embarrassing myself except for one passage, which I would appreciate having a group like this vet. I'm sure there are a host of other questions that you could help me with as well.

Would this be an appropriate place to post questions like that, or is there another place you could recommend? I know that the gun community (like any other technical group) hates it when fiction has stupid, avoidable errors and misconceptions.

I promise that when the movie poster comes out, the babe's finger will be safely off the trigger.

EDITED TO ADD: And now I see that the X-FIVE Tactical only comes in 9mm...
 
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I beleive most members of THR would appreciate the opportunity to assist you in your efforts. I think most of us can agree that Hollywood, or movies in general, are a source of a tremendous amount of misinformation about firearms, thus resulting in legislation being passed to deal with fictitious issues related to firearms. Just remember that a cool reception in a firearms forum doesn,t mean we are bad guys, just tired of being thrown under the bus. (Sorry for any typos, I am on a french keyboard)
 
Ask away; I think people here will give you 200% more info than you ever thought possible.


And remember, us gun nuts aren't really nuts at all. :)
 
I think any one here would be more than willing to help out. The idea that someone such a yourself wants to accurately portray the use of firearms in a story is a nice change from what is usually sensationalized and innacurately portrayed for the sake of of making the story entertaining. Ask away there will be a lot of answers, I am sure.
 
Thanks!

I must confess that there is one scene in which the bullet ballet will strain credibility, but I'm trying to make sure that it is the human who is exceptional, working within reasonable parameters (no outrunning AK 47's in a hallway, magazines with finite rounds and barrels that overheat, magical suppressors, and so forth).

So here's the bit where technical knowledge sits right on the surface; I'm using this scene to help establish Kate's character -- socially inept, technically extremely competent. She is, above all, precise. She has fired Schmidt's gun in the past, and is now returning it to him.

There are three paragraphs in the following passage that (obviously) are exceeding my technical knowledge. You'll know them when you see them. If you could tear them apart now, that will save me embarrassment later. I put the stuff here fully expecting to be criticized -- that's the point of this exercise -- so don't worry about hurting my feelings.

I have avoided specifying Schmidt's gun; it could be anything a European law enforcement agency might use, whatever provides the best fodder for this conversation.

(Please remember that this is a copyrighted excerpt from a larger work.)

***
KATE
I brought your gun back.

Kate reaches into her bag and pulls out Schmidt’s pistol, careful to hold it in a non-threatening fashion, and sets it on the table between them. She reaches back and produces the magazine and sets it next to the gun.

KATE
I, uh, I tuned it up a bit for you.

Schmidt picks up the gun and looks at it curiously.

KATE
I adjusted the double action so the pull on your first shot is more consistent, and I reduced the overtravel, but not by much. Most of the parts were in pretty good shape, but the cartridges you had didn’t give me very consistent results. Sometimes it’s hard to predict how a cartridge will work with the internal ballistics of a particular gun.

SCHMIDT
Huh.

KATE
I tried out a few different rounds. I got good results with Federal JHP. Kind of surprising, really, but you should try those. The Cor-Bon +P worked pretty well too and it’s a good stopper but if you switch make sure you practice a lot or you’ll shoot high at first. And, uh, for special occasions...

Kate reaches once more into her shopping bag and produces a box of cartridges. Her hand shakes just a bit as she sets them on the table, betraying a shy nervousness.

KATE
I made you these.

Schmidt looks at the box, nonplussed. Kate sees his reaction and speaks faster, her embarrassment growing.

KATE
The first ones I made the propellant burned a little too fast for a 115 grain bullet so I switched to AA-7 and when I used the PMC case I started getting some good groups. It might be a little more energetic than you’re used to, more like a +P, but... uh...

Schmidt is watching her, bemused. She looks down at her hands

KATE
That’s weird, isn’t it?

****

One specific question -- when europeans talk guns, do they still use measures like grains or would grams be used instead?

Is adjusting someone else's trigger a no-no?

Thanks once again for your help. In the mind-bogglingly unlikely chance that this goes somewhere, I really want the gun parts to be accurate in a story that has lots of guns in it.
 
I would have to say I would be more than a bit perturbed if someone adjusted my trigger for me. (and its just not safe) I would maybe say something like, I could tune the trigger to help improve your accuracy if you wold like. Or have her suggest a variety of trigger weights depending upon his desired used of the gun..ie competition shooting, or concealed carry.
 
What other options are there that she could do to improve his gun's performance that would not cause those concerns? It is safe to assume that while she may not be a gunsmith, she is very competent in firearm maintenance, and will never be far from a full set of tools.
 
-You could have her install a Match Grade Barrel, (Several manufacturers are good, BarSto, KKM, Nowlin etc)
-She could install a match grade trigger
-Polish the feed ramp on the barrel for better reliability.
-Install a set of target/combat sights maybe Wilson Combats, or Heine Strait eights.
-Might be cool to add a set of Crimson Trace laser grips.
-No gadget is a substitute for practice however!

I would have to know the type of pistol however to get into specifics.
Hope this helps
 
Yes, we will see on a later 'special occasion' that Schmidt needs to practice a little more. Of course, when you really realize that, it's too late...
 
The pistol can be specified to be anything a european cop might carry; whatever gives good options for tweaking. I think I can take it from there with your above suggestions -- thanks!

Any thoughts on her making cartridges tuned to his gun or any of the other stuff? Presumably changing the barrel would change the pressure curve, which gives me a nice closure with changing propellants. Or am I talking out my ass now? Sometimes it's hard to tell.
 
Fit a Match Grade Bbl to the pistol, and work up a load to play to its sweet spot, sounds logical. Doesn't really have much to do with the barrel changing the chamber pressure as much as it does working up a load the barrel "likes". Good Luck
 
One specific question -- when europeans talk guns, do they still use measures like grains or would grams be used instead?

We use both - old school firearms enthusiasts like myself are maybe a bit more inclined towards grains. When I'm reloading, I like to use grains, as this is a unit of measurement that I don't use for anything else, ever. Somehow I feel this is fractionally safer, at least for me. The weakness of the metric system is the possibility of getting the decimal point in the wrong place, or using 1.5 instead of 1.05, etc etc.

The pistol can be specified to be anything a european cop might carry
I see only glocks here in Finland. One or two older officers might still carry S&W revolvers though.

Sometimes it’s hard to predict how a cartridge will work with the internal ballistics of a particular gun
I don't think the "internal ballistics" of one Glock 17 will differ significantly (or even.. at all?) from any of the other G17's of similar vintage. I'd be inclined to check this with a ballistician ;)

Changing the barrel will affect things, if you mean for example changing the original polygonally rifled barrel (talking glocks here) for a conventionally rifled aftermarket one, such as one of the match barrels suggested by an earlier poster .

Regards

"T.S."
 
Popular European service pistols, as I have seen here in Switzerland
#1 Sig
#2 HK
#3 Glock
#4 CZ
#5 Beretta

I think I would choose HK or Sig, just for sex appeal.
 
Why not try contacting the LE agency in the jurisdiction the story is set in and ask them what Make, Model, and Caliber they use.

Also, when Kate draws the pistol from her bag, why not have it in a holster, case, gun rug, etc etc? I would also switch from the maker of the ammo to the model of the ammo, i.e., replace Federal with Hydra-shok and Cor-Bon with DPX.

You also mention a 115gr bullet... from the anecdotes I've read on THR, most LEOs carry 124gr or 147gr 9mm rounds.

"Adjusted the double action" doesn't sound right to me. "Adjusted the trigger" maybe? If Schmidt is a putz, it's understandable Kate, or an armorer might tweak his gun.
 
if you are wondering about people saying "the ammo a bbl likes" remember that no matter how similar two manufactured products are, they are not the same, so the owner must pick a bullet type that generally performs well in that bbl.

as for the story: wow you are one detailed writer! and i appreciate the effort of knowing your subject.
 
If you have specific European country in mind, I think I can help you with the gun make and model. Also, hardly any European cops used JHPs. Many use stuff like the Action 3 or 4 rounds, or plain FMJ.
 
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Instead of "in a non-threatening manner," I'd say, "careful to keep it pointed in a safe direction..." Less clumsy to my ears.
 
You could have her make an adjustment of the magazine feed lips (to ensure reliable feed of cartridges), bevel the magazine well, grease/re-oil the slide rails. It depends on the weather where the event transpires - if it's a hot place, grease might work best, since I think that grease usually sticks better than oil in normal non-sub-zero temps - that's why cars are so greasy. If it's very cold (Scandinavia, northern Russia), oil might be best - an oil that performs better at sub-zero temperatures. Sunflower oil worked for the Germans in Russia during WWII, but I'm sure we have pricier alternatives nowadays to do the same thing.
How about a dehorning job? Any sharp edges on the gun that could use filing down?
Installation of night sights would be a nice thing for a friend to do, as well.
 
Careful - you can overdose on the technical detail and lose some of your audience, the ones who aren't into firearms. Seen too many books which use technical correctness in the hope of diverting attention from the poor writing.

As for the European question, when it comes to handloading ammunition, "grains" is still used as a unit of measurement, despite the EU Nazis.
 
ballistics

i think i would use another term than 'internal ballistics' when referring to the mechanics involved with the gun's operation. i know that 'ballistics' has become a catch-all term when talking about weapons performance, but i believe the word is primarily used to describe the flight of projectiles. the happenings within a gun may be described as its 'ballistics', but i think that is a secondary or tertiary meaning for the word. expand the statement of your character some, and have her be more precise.
 
Sounds like a snippet from GunsmithCats.

Plenty of fiction writers (even top dollar techo-thriller guys) get by without knowing squat about firearms or making huge errors in firearms... relaying a character through their props, mannerisms and patterns of speech is a far more solid platform than propping them up with techno-babble, esp. if you are unclear on techno-babble. Because someone will always say... hey there are FIFTEEN rounds in a Sig 226 magazine! Or Hey the speedo on a Mini Cooper S goes to 140! Etc.

But having said that here are some points:

Sig 226 holds 15 rds.

You don't 'improve' anyone's firearm without asking. Like saying 'surprise you now have a hair trigger!' Working with a Smith is a process... you shouldn't take a fresh-worked over gun into the field without a practice session.

You don't smooth a DA trigger for 'consistancy' you lighten it. Adjusting over travel means a faster re-set.

Next, a Sig is a VERY well made gun, the last 226 I fired dropped the brass in the same place (literally) on every shot (indoor range, right into the brass bucket) "Most of the parts were in pretty good shape" isn't a precise assessment.

If Corbon is hitting high, the sights need to be adjusted. Makes no sense to have 'special occasion' ammo, all events are special occasions when you need to shoot somebody (in fiction even) unless the ammo is armor piercing or tracer or some other exotic, the 'smith should regulate the load to hit the same point of impact as the Corbon.

And finally a euro-police agency would most likely hand a cop a standardized firearm and 8 bullets, FMJ which he'd sign for and be expected to return upon retirement. (Kidding)

Good luck with the writing.
 
You've got guts, Viking, to bare your work before us like this. Good luck.

Is this a screenplay? Or a rough-out of a piece of literature?

I second and amplify Tincat's comment on "internal ballistics." I'd toss it in favor of "internal dynamics," "internal workings," or "internal mechanics."

And for "Federal JHP," try a more specific product name, like "Federal Hydra-Shok."

I also would remind you of Dr. Rob's warning about techno-babble. You got close to the line, almost crossed it.

Show us more , later.
 
Ahaa? My local European police force uses Speer Gold Dot.

Yes, I understand that but Finland is not all of Europe. Being from Europe and having several friends on police forces in several countries there, I don't seem to remember many countries that have the police carry JHPs. Having spend almost every summer in Finland growing up, I always had the impression that Finland had a bit more liberal gun culture than most other European countries. Correct me if I am wrong.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that neither Germany nor Denmark uses JHPs. I am also under the impression that neither France or Austria uses them, but I have not confirmed that.

Anyway, sorry to high jack the thread.
 
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