California Carry Question

TITLE 2. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS

About 3/4 of the way down..

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=pen&codebody=&hits=20

TITLE 2. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS
CHAPTER 1. FIREARMS
Article 1. General Provisions .............................. 12000-12003
Article 1.5. Prohibited Armed Persons File ................. 12010-12012
Article 2. Unlawful Carrying and Possession of Weapons ..... 12020-12040
Article 3. Licenses to Carry Pistols and Revolvers ......... 12050-12054
Article 4. Licenses to Sell Firearms ....................... 12070-12086
Article 4.5. Firearms Safety Devices ..................... 12087-12088.9
Article 5. Obliteration of Identification Marks ............ 12090-12094
Article 6. Permits ......................................... 12095-12099
Article 7. Juveniles ............................................ 12101
CHAPTER 1.3. UNSAFE HANDGUNS ................................ 12125-12133

It's PC 12025

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is
punishable, as follows:
(1) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony,
or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony.

(2) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had
reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.

(3) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street
gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the
Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11
(commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.

(4) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm,
as defined in this section, or the person is within a class of
persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to
Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, as a felony.

(5) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a
person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if
both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of
being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.

(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the
registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

(7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to
(6), inclusive, by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one
year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that imprisonment and fine.

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In Kern county It's an infraction with a $200 fine, but CCW permits grow on trees here.

There is no CA state registration of handguns - you simply cannot carry a loaded weapon concealed without a CCW. I always thought it was a "wobbler" offense, meaning you could be charged with a misdemeanor or felony depending on the circumstances.

You CAN open carry an unloaded gun in CA!

There is no CA state registration of handguns
You CAN open carry an unloaded gun in CA!

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All handguns are registered in California.


No you cannot open carry in Ca.

All handguns are registered in California.

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No they're not - they're registered Federally when you buy them. The only guns registered to the state are "assault weapons".

No you cannot open carry in Ca.

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Sure you can - an unloaded handgun! Check the laws before telling someone they're wrong! I only spent 47 years there.

When you move to CA you have 60 days to register your handguns with the state DOJ. When you buy a new handgun in CA, it is registered with the state DOJ. I am sure that your handguns were grandfathered in, but new handguns in CA are registered.

Incidentally, there is no federal handgun registry. There is a background check, and the records of the check are destroyed within 24 hours.

No they're not - they're registered Federally when you buy them. The only guns registered to the state are "assault weapons".

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No, CA does register handguns. When you buy them or private party transfer one, the gun is registered to the new owner's name. When you move to CA, you're required to register any handguns with the DOJ. There are forms and everything.

When you buy a gun, It's done automatically and it's a one time thing so it isnt so bad. At least we're not like NJ where you gotta get permission from the cops to get a pistol.. but then again NJ can have some EBRs.

Lot's of counties DO give permits to the persistan and righteous
I got mine by being a reserve LEO in a county that DOESN'T issue permits normally.
The bad thing about Cal. CCW permits is that the weapons authorised are listed by serial#, which inconviences me. I don't think I'd get busted for the 'wrong' gun , but if I had to use the 'wrong' gun I'd be in (additional) hot water.
I open carried loaded guns in the Sierras and other wilderness area for 40 years without incident, don't know about 2006 or later though. The guns I carry openly unless called in for duty WON"T be on my permit.

crazed_ss has it right; since 1990, all handgun purchases have had to go through a California FFL, and the Dealer's Record Of Sale (DROS) paper (and now computer program) functionally registers the transfer to the buyer. They don't call it registration, but that's what it is.

If you move here as a 'personal handgun importer', beginning Jan 1 1998, you must register your handguns - PC 12072 (f) (2).

If you bought your handguns before 1990, or moved here with them before 1998, they probably are not 'registered', and need not be until you do a transfer in California.

Carrying open unloaded is one of those things which is not prohibited, nor is it explicitly permitted. On the whole, these days it is merely unwise, as it frightens the citizens, who then call LEOs and report "man with a gun".

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here - in Vegas you fill out a separate form that registers the gun with the city. It has nothing to do with the Federal form that you fill out, which (as far as I know) does NOT register the firearm with the state.

In CA the only form I ever filled out was the Federal form, so how does that register it with the state? That form stays with the gun dealer.

Incidentally, there is no federal handgun registry.

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Geez, no one said there was. The form you fill out stays with the dealer!

So where's the form that registers the gun with the state? Or how is it done "automatically"?

Valkman said:

So where's the form that registers the gun with the state? Or how is it done "automatically"?

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As already mentioned, it is registered when the dealer sends the DROS information electronically. If you look at the DROS printout it has the make, model, and serial number.

They don't call it registration, but that's what it is.

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That's what I thought - there is no official registration of new guns. Everyone just calls it that. Because the DROS has all the info somehow that means that the CA DOJ has all the info stored? That's the leap everyone makes.

Who can show me any of this is true, that the DOJ has all the records? So you bought a Kimber .45 3 years ago and you're telling me CA knows about it and has it on file? I don't believe it. They can't keep track of all the AR-15's much less every gun sold.

I just lived for 3 years in a place (Vegas) that does register handguns and this didn't sound right to me.

I did not know about the '98 law about guns coming IN to CA, but that'll never affect me anyway.

It's no leap, it's black-letter law:

11106 (c) (1) The Attorney General shall permanently keep and properly file and maintain all information reported to the Department of Justice pursuant to Sections 12071, 12072, 12078, 12082, and former Section 12084 or any other law, as to handguns and maintain a registry thereof.
(2) The registry shall consist of all of the following:
(A) The name, address, identification of, place of birth (state or country), complete telephone number, occupation, sex, description, and all legal names and aliases ever used by the owner or person being loaned the particular handgun as listed on the information provided to the department on the Dealers' Record of Sale, the Law Enforcement Firearms Transfer (LEFT), as defined in former Section 12084, or reports made to the department pursuant to Section 12078 or any other law.
(B) The name and address of, and other information about, any person (whether a dealer or a private party) from whom the owner acquired or the person being loaned the particular handgun and when the firearm was acquired or loaned as listed on the information provided to the department on the Dealers' Record of Sale, the LEFT, or reports made to the department pursuant to Section 12078 or any other law.
(C) Any waiting period exemption applicable to the transaction which resulted in the owner of or the person being loaned the particular handgun acquiring or being loaned that firearm.
(D) The manufacturer's name if stamped on the firearm, model name or number if stamped on the firearm, and, if applicable, the serial number, other number (if more than one serial number is stamped on the firearm), caliber, type of firearm, if the firearm is new or used, barrel length, and color of the firearm.

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Any LEO can run a handgun to check it against the state database of handguns registered to you. That's called registration.

Also, open carry, especially in a populated area, expect to go prone ALOT.

Who can show me any of this is true, that the DOJ has all the records? So you bought a Kimber .45 3 years ago and you're telling me CA knows about it and has it on file? I don't believe it. They can't keep track of all the AR-15's much less every gun sold.

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Yes, that's what we're telling you.

But you're right about the ARs - LONG guns don't get their description reported on the paperwork, so the state has no idea what one owns. That's why they can't easily enforce the AW registration here, for guns in state prior to 1990 (for the 'named list') or prior to [shoot, I've lost the date - 2000 or 2001, I think] for 'features test' or 2005 for .50 BMG rifles.

And I stand corrected - 11106 says "maintain a registry thereof" - kind of 'registration' by definition, so they do call it registration.

All that 'prior to' is there because I'm assuming no illegal sales or imports occurred after the various phases of the law became effective; I don't think that 'no sales' is accurate, but I have no data, and neither does DOJ.

Open carry? (except with a license in counties with the proper population density as per the law, is there any left?) Ha. In California they try to spell out the only legal actions that can be taken with a firearm, not which actions cannot be taken. More of the everything is illegal except approach. They allow you to transport an unloaded handgun outside of a case on foot to the trunk of your car or to a locked case or inside your residence. That is very different from open carry. Still it must be in a locked case or in a trunk etc to transport in a vehicle.
It's sole purpose is to allow you to be capable of transporting your handgun without the use of a locked case if necessary. Otherwise you would be breaking the law when you left the shop and walked to your car with the gun, or walked with it in a case that was not locked. Other places might consider that common sense? No not in CA, if it is not expressly permitted it would be breaking the law.

Yes CA is that controlling. They spell out what is legal and anything else should be assumed illegal. Sort of the opposite of freedom, where you could do anything except... In CA you cannot do anything except...with a firearm. Sometimes they forget something, but they will try to change that in one of the 4 new laws a day in this state if they become aware of it, assuming it errs on the more restrictive side. Less restrictive requires serious lengthy time and money consuming propositions and large voter turn out ( of voters not thinking about the children of course .)

There is no CA state registration of handguns - you simply cannot carry a loaded weapon concealed without a CCW. I always thought it was a "wobbler" offense, meaning you could be charged with a misdemeanor or felony depending on the circumstances.

You CAN open carry an unloaded gun in CA!

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This is dangerously wrong. All handguns in CA must be registered with the DoJ. Carrying a registered loaded handgun, with no other problems, is a misdemeanor, not a wobbler. If it's unregistered it's a felony. You generally cannot open carry a handgun, loaded or not.

Besides knowing who has what on the DOJ data base, why do you think you have to submit a 90 day or less recent rent receipt, utility bill or auto registration with a CURRENT ADRESSS, all other forms (tax bills,deeds ect.) won't work as they wanta know WHERE to go

Its been said a bunch of times already, but I'll say it again. Handguns in CA are registered. Registration on new handgun sales are done by the ffl

I don't know if the rules have changed, but the last time I bought a handgun I think 2 years ago the guy at the shop explained to me that the law says you can only register 1 handgun a month. The store was having a sale and he said that people could purchase serveral, but the would have to come back once a month to pick up one gun. So purchasing and registering are different.

Fron the Ca DOJ Website FAQ section:

"Can I get a list of the firearms for which I am listed as the purchaser, transferee, or owner?

Yes. To obtain a list of firearms listed in your name, send a letter requesting this information to the Automated Firearms Unit, P.O. Box 820200, Sacramento, CA 94203-0200. The letter must be signed, notarized, and include a photocopy of your photo ID card (ie., driver's license or DMV ID)."

They know.

California carry

Absolutely incorrect (what else is new with this crowd)

Carrying illegally depends on where you are and how you're carrying...

Carrying conceled is still a misdomener in LA.. however it's so expensive to defend against and no matter what, you will loose that weapon forever... it's simply not worth it.

The law depends on where you are in Ca... it's the local laws, not state.

Sorry, rojoko, State Penal Code controls firearms offenses, not local. If an officer arrests based on concealed carry without a license, you're going down for PC 12025, not some local ordinance.

CA Penal Code applicable section.

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is punishable, as follows:
(1) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony.
(2) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.
(3) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11 (commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.
(4) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm, as defined in this section, or the person is within a class of persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, as a felony.
(5) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.
(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to (6) inclusive, by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(c) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) if the peace officer has probable cause to believe that the person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106 as the registered owner of the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, and one or more of the conditions in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) is met.
(d)(1) Every person convicted under this section who previously has been convicted of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section 12001.6 shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for at least three months and not exceeding six months, or, if granted probation, or if the execution or imposition of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for at least three months.
(2) Every person convicted under this section who has previously been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, if probation is granted, or if the execution or imposition of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months.
(e) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence as specified in subdivision (d), except in unusual cases where the interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence without the minimum imprisonment required in subdivision (d) or by granting probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence with conditions other than those set forth in subdivision (d), in which case, the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice would best be served by that disposition.
(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.
(g) For purposes of this section, "lawful possession of the firearm" means that the person who has possession or custody of the firearm either lawfully owns the firearm or has the permission of the lawful owner or a person who otherwise has apparent authority to possess or have custody of the firearm. A person who takes a firearm without the permission of the lawful owner or without the permission of a person who has lawful custody of the firearm does not have lawful possession of the firearm.
(h)(1) The district attorney of each county shall submit annually a report on or before June 30, to the Attorney General consisting of profiles by race, age, gender, and ethnicity of any person charged with a felony or a misdemeanor under this section and any other offense charged in the same complaint, indictment, or information.
(2) The Attorney General shall submit annually, a report on or before December 31, to the Legislature compiling all of the reports submitted pursuant to paragraph (1).
(3) This subdivision shall remain operative until January 1, 2005, and as of that date shall be repealed.

So, if I understand CA law... It is a felony to carry a loaded gun that's unregistered- However, if that firearm is registered to the state, illegally carrying it (assuming the person who would be hypothetically carrying it is also the legally registered owner) is only a misdemeanor.

Is this correct? Could someone refer me to the penal code section dealing with this? Thanks.

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Hi, Combat-Wombat. Let me go ahead and simplify the legal crapola for you and help you get through the arguments. You are in California...since this is the case it is cheaper, less painful and less tiresome to just assume you are not allowed to do it. If you cant live with that, folks in 20+ other gun friendly states will be more than happy to help you emmigrate.