The AK-47 Ammo Crisis

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Waitone

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http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20070206.aspx
February 6, 2007: Gun runners worldwide were shocked late last year when the found the price of the favorite ammunition, the 7.62x39 (diameter and length, in millimeters) round used in the AK-47, doubled in price. For decades, this 7.62x39 was the cheapest rifle ammo available, selling for as low as ten cents per round. Even the highest quality ones rarely sold for more than twenty cents a round. But suddenly, hardly anything was under twenty cents, and the reason was massive orders from the United States. The Americans were laying in supplies for their Iraq and Afghan allies. Both of these nations had been working down supplies left over from Cold War era stockpiles, but all that stuff was pretty much gone, and there was still lots of fighting going on. Moreover, those crazy Americans were insisting that Afghan and Iraqi security personnel learn to shoot their AK-47s accurately. That took a lot of ammo.

The 7.62x39 round has an interesting history. It was developed during World War II, for the SKS, a "light rifle" (or "carbine") to arm combat support troops. The United States had a similar weapon, the M-1 Carbine, which fired an even weaker 7.62mm (.30 caliber) round. The 7.62x39 was basically a shorter version of the standard 7.62x54 Russian rifle round. Most nations had one of these "full powered" 7.62mm rounds for their rifles and machine-guns. The Germans also developed a short rifle round, the 7.92x33. But this round was used in the first assault guns, the Sturmgewehr 44. At a glance, this weapon looks like an AK-47, but it is less reliable and sturdy, and quite different mechanically. The Russian AK-47 appeared in 1947, and became immensely popular. Not because of its accuracy, but because the weapon could deliver automatic fire that was easy to control (the rifle did not jump around as much as other automatic rifles), and the weapon rarely jammed. Since the Russians did not give their troops much practice shooting their rifles, it was important to have one that a soldier could just "spray and pray." This tactic actually made military sense. Moreover, experience revealed that nearly all infantry firefights were at ranges of under 500 meters (and most of those were under a hundred meters.) The 7.92x33 round was accurate at ranges of under 500 meters, and that was all that was needed.

When the Germans introduced the Sturmgewehr 44, on a test basis, in 1943, they sent officers to observe how the weapon, and its users, performed in combat. It was found that even inexperienced troops felt more confident with that much fire power. They also noted that a few dozen German soldiers firing their Sturmgewehr 44s, were often nearly invincible. The Russian troops were either hit, or dived for cover, and the Germans won the fight.

That sort of thing went both ways. For over a year, German troops had been on the receiving end of this, as masses of Russian troops were armed the PPD submacinegun. This weapon fired the even weaker 7.62x25 round, which was basically a pistol round. The bullet from the 7.62x25 would more often wound than kill, and it took several hits to definitely bring down an enemy soldier. But a few hundred Russian troops armed with the PPD (usually equipped with a 71 round drum magazine), firing at German positions, certainly caused the Germans to keep their heads down. The more powerful 7.92x33 German assault gun round was more likely to hurt the victim, and better at shooting through walls, doors and floors. After World War II, Russia developed the AK-47, and used the 7.62x39 round they already had. The 7.62x39 had similar performance to the Sturmgewehr 44s 7.92x33 round. The AK-47 was more durable, and cheaper to manufacture.

Fifty years ago, an American inventor (Gene Stoner) came up with a new assault gun design, using a high powered 5.56x45 round in what became the M-16. This 5.56mm round was lighter, with a hundred rounds weighing 3.5 pounds (with magazines). This compared to 6.1 pounds for a full size 7.62x51 round, or 4.7 pounds for the AK-47s 7.62x39. Lighter ammo, meant you could carry more ammo. That's important to the infantry, because they have to haul their weapons and ammo around the battlefield.

But after Vietnam, things began to change. The United States went for an all-volunteer army, and that meant troops who were in longer, and could be better trained to use their weapons. It became customary to use automatic fire only in emergencies. The M-16 was more useful firing single shots, and the 30 round magazine meant you could do so for a long time before having to reload. Here, the less accurate AK-47 was at a disadvantage. But not for the people who were most often using AK-47s. The end of the Cold War in 1991, put tens of millions of surplus AK-47s on the world arms markets. Most of the people who ended up getting those weapons had little military training, and preferred the "pray and spray" of full auto fire.

But American troops found that the AK-47 was accurate enough for close combat. Not as accurate as the M-16, but accurate enough. American Special Forces would often carry AK-47s on missions where they could get ammo from dead opponents, and not give themselves by firing M-16s (which made a sound quite different than that of the AK-47). The the Russians stopped using the 7.62x39 round in the 1970s (and switched to the 5.45x39 for their version of the M-16), and many other major armed forces have followed suit. But the 7.62x39 remains popular with irregular troops. Over 70 million weapons (mostly AK-47 clones) have been manufactured in the last sixty years, and the majority of those weapons are apparently still in working order. Thus the large quantity of 7.62x39 ammo still being produced. But these bullets are mostly going to people who shoot, rather than aim. That's what the AK-47 is good for, but other, lighter, assault rifles, using faster moving rounds (like the 5.56mm) are more accurate, use lighter ammo, have proved more popular with troops who aim their fire.
 
Ah, yes, good ol' Strategy Page. Very detailed analysis there. If this were an academic paper it would get an F. It has no flow at all. It rambles like a drunken sailor.

It starts out talking about the price of 7.62x39. Good enough. Everyone is worried about ammo prices.

Then suddenly it changes gears and becomes a loosly written history of the M1 Carbine, PPD sub-gun, SKS, STG44, AK47, M16, and AK74 (did I miss any?). Then tosses in an analysis of German, Soviet, and American battle tactics for good measure.

Then it just ends. Like a bad movie. No conclusion. No summary. No real connection back to the original subject (the price of 7.62x39 ammo). It's like the author just ran out of things to say and stopped typing.

:barf:
 
I got halfway through before going back to the beginning looking for the reason I was reading it in the first place.
Interesting information, just, not the info I thought I was going to get.
 
Gun runners worldwide were shocked

Shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

OK, I thought I was going to read about the ammo crisis,whatever that may be. It's barely touched on in the first paragraph only. :confused:
 
does anyone realy believe the war is having an effect on the ammo prices??? i sure don't.
I think it is more to do with metal prices skyrocketing.
 
please show any evidence that the war is the reason for the skyrocket. i have seen nothing to suggest that. We have been at this war for quite sometime now. And it's just happening now I think not. May have very little to do with it but I would say 95% of the cost hike is from soaring metal prices.
Take a look at metal prices and ALL ammo prices. All ammo prices have skyrocketed by almost 30% in recent is that due to the war aswell???

not saying the cost hasn't gone up I am well aware of the increase just saying it's not due to the war
 
Yes, 7.62x39 prices continue to rise, but relatively speaking they are still manageable compared to other calibers. One of the primary reasons I purchased my WASR 10 several years ago was precisely for that reason. Fortunately, shortly after purchasing the AK, I stocked up on ton of bulk 7.62x39 in sealed tins. I consider that ammo as my reserve, never to be touched unless absolutely needed. Now my only expenditures in this regard are for range sessions. It's all worked out pretty well.
 
Does that author know ANYTHING about guns?

The SKS is less sturdy than the AK? I have a hard enough time seeing how it might be less reliable, but less sturdy? BWAHAHAHAHA!!! :banghead: Not even close.

Looks like something that was written with the History Channel being the only source of information- not bad, but when it gets into advantages/disadvantages of particular weapons, the BS gets very deep VERY quickly.
 
What is the amount of ammo use in Iraq by both sides compared to the average weekly ammo use in the US?
 
Its still a cheap round to shoot. Everything is going up; thats just inflation. I mean, its not going to stay $.10 a round forever. 7.62x39 was still the cheapest centerfire rifle round I saw Saturday at a gun show I went to.
 
Everything is going up; thats just inflation.
7.62x39 has doubled in the last year and a half. And all the rest of wal marts shelves are up 30% in the last 3 months. That is FAR beyond inflation.
 
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I'm glad I ordered a 1000 round case of 7.62 x 39 from Sportsmans guide last month. Now its all back-ordered to the 11th of May! 1000 rounds will last me 18 months, as I don't shoot the SKS on a regular basis, maybe once a month with 30 or 40 rounds.
 
Oddly, the price of Wolf came down between the Dec and Jan gun shows in my part of the country. I Dec, $165/K, in Jan, $149/K. However, there was NO brass cased 223 to be found. Regards,

NS
 
This thread finally panicked me - I just 5 minutes ago went and ordered another 1k of 7.62x39 from Aimsurplus (Still $149 plus $20 S&H). I gotta slow down shooting my SKS, I've gone through 400 rounds almost in the last month when I bought my 1st 1000 rounds. Gotta make more use of my 10/22...

As far as "the war" and rising milsurp ammo prices, I heard the following 2 explanations... 1) 5.56mm is more expensive now because US forces are using a LOT of it now, so there's not a stream of US govt 5.56mm ammo going to surplus anymore, or at least a lot less. 2) the US govt right after the november 06 elections went and bought a BUTTLOAD (like 10 years worth in one shot) of ammo and munitions specifically for the Afghan govt. Apparently the current admin is afraid the dems will cut the Afghan military support, so while they still control the pursestrings, they gave the Afghanis 10 years worth of stuff. Since the Afghanis, like the Iraqis, use AKs and maybe SKSs, again this disappeared all the surplus ammo, this time in 7.62x39.

Don't know if it's true but it sounded sort of plausible to me... if it is true, I would hope that 7.62x39 at least will go back down. However, those plots of copper and other metal prices zooming up is worrisome too... :confused:
 
I was concerned about this and had considered selling my Saiga Conversion but with the cost difference between my Saiga and an AR plus .223 being more expensive, I decided to go out an pick up another case. I'm not planning on touching what I have stored and will pick up Wolf in 20rd boxes for when I go plinking.
 
Prices are trending down

Track the prices--they're going down for 7.62x39 and 5.45x39.

No doubt the prices on metal/supplies/transportation are up. I heard Afghanistan specfically got the ammo depots "topped off" with literally tons of ammo.

Still, prices were higher a couple of months ago. Don't panic buy and you'll save a mini-fortune.
 
I have been limiting Wolf type ammo to 500 round packs to keep it simple. Just enough to keep my round count from falling too much.
 
Ammo

I have to admit I haven't been seeing much of a shift here in Arizona. I can still get a 1k rounds of .223/5.56 for 179.99. I can also get 5.45X39 for 145.00 per 1k. 7.62X39 is about 140 as well. The hard part is finding a store carrying a wide selection of .223 since most LE, State, Local, Federal all carry some form of .223 now. I usually ask my Gun Store to set aside an extra brick for me when they order it. It helps that they have my CC on file... :) I am thinking about investing a 100 bucks a pay check into my ammo since the Hildabeast and Air Pelosi will not want me to be able to play with my toys.
 
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