what reasons does our government have?

Are we all considered a threat to them?



Yes.

"The herd" - that would be us - is always a threat to the government, whatever that government is, whenever in history it was or is. Keeping the common people pacified and controlled is the primary function of government, at least from a human point of view. Government by its very nature grows itself and feeds off those governed. There is always more to be done to insure the power and security of those securely in power.

I could write more, but this is not a religion board.

aged,

There are several members on this forum that are able to give lessons in reality.

Rulers have always viewed the rulees as a threat. In Washington D.C. today, you are referred to as a "huckleberry", one too stupid to manage his own affairs.

I went to gun school with two FBI agent who told me that the most probable threat they were working models on was a tax revolt. At some point the mandatory, or "entitlement", spending will devour the federal budget as more of the Baby Boom Pig in the Snake marches through time and more and more people are getting federal checks. People may start withhold their money to the federal monster.

Government lacks the will and nerve to do anything in the here and now, they will be forced to devalue the currency (currency reforms or just print more) and raise taxes to unheard of levels. Government will move to choke off your guns and ammo and then forcibily disarm you. At some point the FBI, with the help of the military, will initiate their gun raids which will target high profile targets (NFA dealers, known personalities in the gun culture) and kill them so the rest of us fall into line.

It's already started with the ATF's data base, the FBI training (and deployment) with the military, the tip hotlines, the Ad Council spots, New Orleans. None of this is done in isolation and without purpose.

I say we are not really threats to what those in govnerment wish to do, advance socialism along European lines and their own power, but more of obstacles in the path of utopia. Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-Hope-History-World-Time/dp/094500110X

Howdy, Google a video called "Iron Mountain, Blue Print for Tyranny" . See what it says about our government.

"If someone is so fearful that they are going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, it makes me very nervous that these people have weapons at all." ~~Henry Waxman

Need any more be said?

Woody

My outlook is different, only my opinion, but,,, Our government is not an "Evil Monster", it is an "Ignorant Boob". It does not know what we want.

Our government is nothing more than an elaborate popularity contest. The most popular politicians are the ones that get reelected. They are popular with the poor because they provide bigger and better wefare programs. They are popular with the rich because they lower taxes. They are popular with the oil companies because they allow drilling in more wilderness areas. They are popular with the eco fanatics because they do not allow drilling in wilderness areas. They are popular with everyone because they promise to reduce crime. (Brady and friends tell them that controlling guns is controlling crime. The NRA and friends tell them it is not.)

Even more important, promising to do something does not mean they have to do it. Their prize (reelection) is awarded on how many people think they will get what they want, not on what they actually get, after the election.

Today at election time, only 20 percent of registered voters bother to vote. (I wonder how many more could register if they wanted too?). Three hundred million american citizens. Twenty percent means,,,sixty million voters? Some minor parties, Libertarians, greens, whoever drag off a few votes, say ten million? That leaves fifty million people deciding our national elections. twenty five million for Democrat, or republican will win.

We are losing our gun rights. We are losing them because 70 million gun owners do not care. The politicians are responding to the people that vote for them. That does not make them evil. It does not make the laws they pass evil. The politicians are doing what they are told by their supervisors. Did you tell them what YOU want?

The 2A is NOT about hunting ducks. The government does and needs to fear the citizenry. Keeps them properly humble.

Sam

They have forgotten how and why this country was formed (or, they think the majority of the people are too "civilized" to do something like that again).
How many people out there think there isn't anything other than voting or protesting that we can do to get a change in our leadership? That works to a point but you are almost always voting for the lesser of two evils. Part of the problem is this "melting pot" is so diverse it's impossible to please all the people, and sometimes impossible to please even the majority of the people.
The scary thing is there is a very large movement towards socialism in this country because it's the "popular thing to do".
The country may reach the point where we have (another) revolt right here in the good ol USA. I hope that's just tin-foilery.
Fear of terrorism is a good time to launch an attack on the rights of the people (read my signature).

consider this...

taking rights away is not an easy task... getting people to give their rights up is far easier..no oppressor wants a revolution...or even a mild protest..better to overtake the masses..not with oppression but..have them join your side willingly..and most will..wont they??

long gone is the need for mass protest by the majority of Americans for any cause...let the non-citizens protest..for the right to remain non-citizens and be rewarded citizenship anyway..(will they...bet heavy!!)

war you say...where...its on TV and mixed in with commentary by those that support the troops and condemn the operation..

politicians..take a stand...be clear...share your views..do SOMETHING...sure...as soon as they are elected..they promise..as soon as they can get out of the legal trouble they are in with connections to corrupt business associates or current lovers..watch them spend millions for a job that pays 150,000 and tell you in the same breath they can fix the economy...

fight the liberals...they are destroying the country..sure...as soon as the Republicans stop giving the country away and replace the borders and stop the one million plus illegal aliens crossing the border at will...(soon to be many more...mexico economy in trouble..(really?? hard to imagine) and central and south americans want their share of the pie also...

and business..there is a pro-American group eh..payroll cutting into the bottom line...china here we come..and when china gets its economic act together and wants to stop funding our loans...in the very near future..we are going to be surprised huh..yeah i thought they were our friends too...dame ya cant trust anyone anymore can ya..

public education...yes it is a new comedy group..playing in every inner city..not to worry money will fix it...here in Los Angeles we have a handle on it..so what if we have the lowest performing schools in the country...make that many countries...we give our teachers raises..deserve them or not...or the teachers union will raise hell and sue our butt...cant have that now can we...

gun rights you say..the constitution and all that..2nd amendment stuff...hmm..OK...lets try this...hang with me a bit...Tobacco..legal..right? or maybe not..! This is in California now...and the beach towns in particular and university communities..You could smoke anywhere you want right?...resturants..bars..parks..the beach..walking down the sidwalk..outside your condo..inside your condo/apartment..well .. not really..many small towns passed laws saying good by to tobacco smoke anywhere..even in your own condo...soon your car and private home...(go ahead and laugh..)

You remember the tens of thousands that marched in the streets to protest this right..? The politicians saying they would fight for smokers rights because tobacco is legal and all that..and they would get the city councils to reverse the decisions..the debates and news commentators saying this was a violation of rights and a blatant one at that...and the cards and letters poured in to support the reversal of such ordenances...

And you remember when top white house officials said...because there was overwhelming evidence that second hand smoke DOES indeed kill millions..they support the rulings..

And then...the arguments by "concerned citizens" saying ... if smoke could go through walls..it only stands to reason that bullets can too..and they don't want to take anyones gun away or make them illegal or anything...they just don't want them allowed to be used in anyones home or on the street or ... well...just like smoking..its legal everywhere..but you cant do it anywhere..

For those in CA and are aware of the smoking bans...how fast and pervasive they "passed" without a word of protest...think the gun argument would "catch on" that fast without protest...marches...media coverage .. legal battles etc....do ya...

for your consideration...

what does this have to do with firearms?

bogie, it has to do with the erosion of civil rights.

"Government" doesn't think in terms of taking away rights. The Congress and the Administration don't think in those terms.

Generally--and this varies with individuals--laws such as RICO, WOD and WOT are intended with the best of benevolent intentions to help solve some problem. Well, perceived problem.

The fact that many of the problems began with prior government actions doesn't occur to the do-gooders.

So, when Plan A doesn't work, a more Draconian Plan B is enacted. And so it goes; Plan C and then Plan D.

If new technology's toys are seen as helpful, here comes Plan E.

An imperfect knowledge of "HIgh Tech" is what leads to calls for Smart Guns and serial numbers on ammunition.

Unintended Consequences abound; they're everywhere. Social Security sounded good when it started, but the actuarial numbers indicate major problems. Same sort of social impact from Aid For Dependent Children. Money impacts from MediCare and MedicAid.

But all governmental programs of whatever sort have controls on those who participate, whether poverty-people or farmers.

And these controls inevitably reduce liberty. In the gun-control thing, we surely see it as a reduction in civil rights--and that gets into being concerned with pollitics.

Art

From what I understand, the goverment monitors phone conversations that are between a US phone number and a non-US phone number. Any domestic wire tapping still requires a warrant. Also, not all conversations are monitored. Only those that may be relevant to the war on terror. Am I mistaken? From the comments here, it appears that most posters assume that ALL conversations are monitored.

double tap??? I am seeing through the smoke to a different mirror than you are,,, you said,,,
" (or, they think the majority of the people are too "civilized" to do something like that again).

I see the Majority sitting home watching tv, or listening to their Ipod... I bet if you ask the next ten people you interact with how many stars are on the american flag that six or more will get it wrong...

NO ONE is even watching.

So, without checking,,, how many are there?

what reasons does our government have? .......

Click to expand...

For many beaurocrats and career civil servants a reason is not really important for many of the things that big government does. The very fact that the ability to do something exists is seen as justification for the government to do it. The question all too often asked is not "should we do this" but "how can we get funding to do this".

Humans as a species are not intelligent, we are a clever species, like many other of the primates but we are not truly intelligent. That is why when our cleverness allowed us to develop nuclear weapons, nerve gas, biowarfare etc.
we immediately produced large stockpiles of these species ending weapons.
A truly intelligent species would have been satisfied to know they could do something. A clever species has to prove that they can. The same problems exist at the big government level. Public servants are clever, an intelligent person however would almost certainly look at big government, be disgusted by the waste , excess, inequities and evil and walk away.

A step towards a real solution

Folks, sorry to contribute towards dragging the thread further off topic but I keep reading about the Symptoms of the problem and no real Solution to the problem.

If we consider the Politicians that are historically the biggest problem we also find that they are Career Politicians. Take for example Kennedy. Many of the folks I know in Mass agree that he's useless but somehow he continues to be re-elected.

I would like to see our elected officials pass a law that mandates strict term limits.

For example: No one person can represent any state(s) in any position for more than 8 years total.

This would allow for newbies to cut their teeth in the House or Senate or Both and also allow them a shot at POTUS.

This would help get us closer to what the founding fathers intended. We all recognize that the vast majority of legislation does little to benefit the people and lots to perpetuate excessive gov't/career politicians.

It would also help break up the same old same old agenda that goes on in Congress with the same core leaders being elected term after term after term....

The idea of limiting career politicians has merit. It would go a long way towards changing the mindset of some in office. Currently most office
holders are more concerned with getting re elected and gaining more prestige and power via committees etc. The actual work, doing good for their constituents takes a back seat until such a time as it can be rolled out for a good sound bite and video blurb.

One of the real problems behind the scenes is not the elected rulers, it's the unelected petty ( and I do mean petty in more than one definition) beaurocrats who run the day to day government agencies. The BATF is just one but is a good example. It is a huge agency with a huge budget staffed by
a tremendous number of civil servants that answer to other beaurocrats.
They can create rules and regulations with the force of law at the stroke of a pen. These rulings are never debated or voted on by anyone who has to stand for reelection yet they are enforced, people are arrested and imprisoned for violating these rules. This problem is even bigger, more pervasive and harder to solve than the problem of corrupt, socialistic and self serving politicians. We can throw them out. Getting rid of the entrenched unelected tin gods at the agency level is the real challenge.

Along with term limits goes campaign finance reform. Get all the private money out of politics, so the politicians don't owe favors to anyone except their electorate.

I heard this idea on the radio, and I really liked it: Make every politician swear an oath to tell the absolute truth during any official proceedings. Make it so if it can ever be proven that a politician lied in any official matter, he/she goes straight to FMUTA prison. See how many people are that eager to take the job then...

You must have something to hide

It's all well and good to talk about term limits for electees, but the typical mid- and upper-level bureaucrats' attitude is, "Politicians come, politicians go--but I'm here until retirement."

Art

And there, as Mr. Eatman points out, is the real problem. As long as the career "civil servantsmasters" have tenure preventing them from being sacked by anything less than an Act of Congress, they have complete freedom to do whatever they darn well please... because they can.

We need comprehensive civil service reform and soon, or things are just gonna keep getting worse and worse.

They fear us because of what they themselves know to be true of themselves.