Zumbo shooting with Nugent

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I'm sure the Bradys etc. would NEVER volunteer information that they got a letter, and probably would deny it.

However, if Jim said he sent one, and posted the text somewhere, I would be inclined to believe it as truth. So would most people.

Publically saying that one WAS sent essentially equates to one being sent, since you are outting yourself in saying so. Not saying you sent one, and the silence from the Bradys equates to NOT sending one.

Jim seriously needs to realize that publicity killed his career, and only publicity could possibly redeem him. He needs to make sure that ANY positive action he does hits the wires ASAP.


I'm going to say this again and again... he needs to hire a PR person-- or FIRE the ones that he has currently.


John
 
200px-Vader_Needa.jpg


Apology accepted, Mr. Zumbo.....

:p (...yes, I really DO accept his apology.)


...and seeker_two is a play off of my real name. I use it because I always have, and I'm still seeking the answers to a lot of questions. Don't plan to change anytime soon... (...and lose my post count? :scrutiny: )


Guntalk & I have had this discussion before i.e. finding a radio station in my area to listen to him :banghead: (Be PROUD of your show, man! It's THAT good!!!).
 
Guntalk-: I stand corrected. I thought you were younger and it goes to show to never pre-judge.

I have to admit that I seldom read Outdoor Life or Field and Stream anymore so wouldn't know what you own or shoot. I can't get over how petite they are now. I'll have to go through my old Rifleman's and look for your work. Your radio program is not on in my area.

Chagrined,

Johnny West
 
Bogie makes an excellent point...Why don't we use half of the time we are spending bickering to eachother about one guy, and use it for something constructive,( ie writing our congresscritters)?
 
>>I have to admit that I seldom read Outdoor Life or Field and Stream anymore so wouldn't know what you own or shoot<<

I haven't written for Outdoor Life since 1979. I think I had one article in Field & Stream sometime in the 1970's.

I did write a monthly column called "Arms & Ammo" in Sports Afield for about 10 years, ending almost 10 years ago.

I was editor of Handloader and Rifle magazines (technical pubs), a columnist for Guns & Ammo, editor of Alaska magazine, technical editor at the NRA publications, and have written for a bunch of other magazines, authored books, and I've done firearms-related TV and radio for almost 20 years.

What I own and shoot? Hard to pin it down. Shotguns? Lots of 'em. Pumps, autos, O/Us, side-by-sides, defensive guns, etc. Rifles? Lots of 'em. I shot my first deer with a semi-auto 308 when I was 11 years old (1962). The first rifle I owned was (and is) a Browning .22 auto when I was five. I own and shoot a lot of rifles, from ARs to benchrest-type (varmint) rifles, to big game to dangerous game rifles. Pistols? Lots of 'em. Take your pick. From a NAA mini-revolver to big honkin revolvers, 1911s (quite a few), XDs, Glocks, M&Ps, Seacamp, Smith/Taurus/Colt/DW revolvers, Hi-Standard, Charter Arms, etc., etc., etc.

How many? Ah. Lots. <grin>

There seems to be a mindset that a guy who likes to shoot sporting clays can't also own and shoot ARs well. A guy who has an expensive bird gun can't understand IDPA. A deer hunter doesn't get the Second Amendment.

It's the same thinking that says someone who is a Liberal can't support gun rights. Just flat wrong. More than that, it's dumb, because it alienates those who can help us fight for gun rights.

I was the first national gun writer to talk about the Pink Pistols -- that was in Guns & Ammo. People cancelled subscriptions. My point there was that this is a group of gun owners and shooters who can turn the media stereotype of "gun nuts" on its head, showing it to be the lie that we all know it to be.

Now I have created and I host the first and only national television show featuring defensive use of guns -- "Personal Defense TV."

While I'm at it, I'm developing a new series about bird hunting.

Who said you can't do it all? You can sleep when you're dead. <grin>
 
There seems to be a mindset that a guy who likes to shoot sporting clays can't also own and shoot ARs well. A guy who has an expensive bird gun can't understand IDPA. A deer hunter doesn't get the Second Amendment.

It's the same thinking that says someone who is a Liberal can't support gun rights. Just flat wrong. More than that, it's dumb, because it alienates those who can help us fight for gun rights.

I agree it's stupid, but, in my experience, the stupidity doesn't lie on the side of the RKBA absolutist. I haven't met an AR shooter who doesn't respect the sporting clays or hunting side, but I've met more than a few hunters and sporting shotgunners, and the owners of stores that catered to both, who believed in stricter gun control, the AWB, and most every other ban that was offered up.
 
If a sinner can be born again and forgiven by the Lord.

Surely a Hunter can be born again and forgiven by his fellow firearm enthusiasts.

I'm willing to forgive him as long as he launches on a very public campaign to recant the error of his ways.

Remember if we dont hang together, then we will surely hang seperately.:cool:
 
There seems to be a mindset that a guy who likes to shoot sporting clays can't also own and shoot ARs well. A guy who has an expensive bird gun can't understand IDPA. A deer hunter doesn't get the Second Amendment
.

Very true. There are many non-sporting gunner types who don’t see that others are on their side. However, my experience (limited that it is) is that most “non-sporting” gunners who find no use for spiffy shotguns and clays would never call for a ban on them. They may think hunting and shotgun sports are lame, but they don’t actively support efforts to get rid of them.

However, The first thing out of an “only for sporting purposes” gun owner’s mouth when the subject of modern military styles rifles comes up is usually about how we don’t need them an how the “sport” and country would be better off without them. They don’t just not get AR owners or not comprehend that the AR owner might also own a “sporting arm”; they want the AR’s gone.

THAT’S what has us hot. Not the 80% of Trap/Skeet/Hunting/etc. shooters who get, it’s the 20% that don’t. And even then we wouldn’t give a flip except that they are the ammo used by the Brady Bunch et al...

I don’t find any use for a skeet or trap gun. None. It’s not my thing. But you darn well better believe I’ll fight for you too keep yours. I only expect the same from other segments of the gun owning community, especially its public figures.

We, however, do run the risk of painting with too broad a brush. We need to establish right off the bat that all gun owners are innocent of Antitwoaitis until they are proven guilty by their own word and deeds.
 
There seems to be a mindset that a guy who likes to shoot sporting clays can't also own and shoot ARs well. A guy who has an expensive bird gun can't understand IDPA. A deer hunter doesn't get the Second Amendment.


Makes no sense to me. I went hog hunting with my IPSC race gun.
 
That Pink Rifle

I find myself chuckling as I read people questioning why he's shooting with that "pink rifle" (rather than black).

Well, if you didn't own your very own AR, and you went to Ted Nugent's place to bone up on the subject, and you had to borrow one of Ted's "black rifles," and if what he handed you was a pink-and-black zebra gun, I would guess that's what you'd shoot!

I can imagine the selection process:
Well, Jim, we have a few you can choose from to start with . . . there's this solid purple thing . . .
Uh, no thanks . . .
. . . and this pink one my daughter uses . . .
Got anything else?
Well, how about this Serengeti camo thing we're trying out?
Okay, sure, why not. You know they're gonna laugh at me for this.
Well, Jim, maybe that's not all bad. Let's get started.​

Fellers, I gotta go now. I have to figure out what I'm gonna write to my congresscritters. I gotta figure out how I'm gonna approach my neighbors. I gotta compose something to send to the editor of my local paper.

This has been fun and all, but this isn't where the real action is.

Catch y'all later.
 
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Zumbo shooting with Nugent does nothing for me. Maybe not accurate, but it brings to mind someone making racist comments about black people then trying to make it all better by hanging out with a black celebrity and saying "look at me, I'm not a bigot, I'm hanging out with a black guy."

It ain't much, but my broke self would be in for $10 to a fund to help pay for a large ad in a DC newspaper if it included a short description of what Zumbo said, the response to his comments, an apology, and a statement that not only explains that the Second Amendment isn't about hunting, but what it is about. Also, this same stuff would need to be on jimzumbo.com (where any mention of this mess has yet to be made); maybe in the context of a new lifetime goal that Zumbo is working towards of educating people on the second .

Another option would be a commercial during one of the evening news shows or maybe Jericho.

Please show me Zumbo that your apology was an "I'm sorry for what I said", and not an "I'm sorry I opened my mouth and brought this upon myself".

As far as my real name and where I'm at, if anyone really cares I've posted my first name in the past, you can google my location and find the little town easily enough, and for my last name just p.m. me and ask.
 
Zumbo...

I'm no going to sit and wait for Jim Zumbo to use "exactly the 'right' words to suit my feelings". He's trying and if folks don't want to let it pass they won't. I will. How about a poll entitled, "My perfect life" for folks to list all of the bad things they've never done?
 
I've been reading page after page on thread after thread on this subject for several days now. I was away from the keyboard when this whole thing blew up and it took me a couple of days to catch up. And I haven't posted on the issue until now.

Mr. Zumbo is a lifelong writer, as well as a lifelong shooter. He should know that words, like bullets, once discharged downrange cannot be recalled. Both are capable of doing severe damage. The simple fact is that Mr. Zumbo blew a large smoking hole in the struggle to protect the Second Amendment with his ill- conceived and ill- timed rant.

And as near as I can tell, so far all he has done in response is to put a band-aid over the bullet hole.

There is a LOT more damage to be fixed. The legal principle where liability is concerned is usually referred to as 'making whole.' And IMHO that's the task he faces now, and will face for quite some time to come.

It is not for me alone to either blame him, or to forgive him. There are innumerable people who were directly affected by this episode. I think those people have been heard from- as indeed they should have been. Perhaps some have not been as considered and careful in their own words as they should. But I don't think it out of bounds for a certain level of outrage to have been expressed- and it was expressed.

But that message has now been delivered, and heard. I don't think anyone can deny that. The issue now is, what comes next? There are lots of things that Mr. Zumbo can do to demonstrate his newfound understanding of the meaning of the Second Amendment. Many of them have been outlined here on this thread and elsewhere. The question is, will he do those things? Will he do the amount of work necessary to undo more of the damage he has done?

I am certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point. But I expect to see some more substantial efforts on his part to support the struggle for the Second Amendment than a photo op with a black rifle.

lpl/nc
 
I'm still not buying it, sorry Mr. Gresham I hear your point and understand the sentiment, but Zumbo didn't vomit on the prime minister, he called his wife a whore. There's a big difference, and one can be forgiven in a way that the other can never really be. Terrorist/banning/divorce. Those are words that can not be taken back.

Had Zumbo just been chastised by the online firearms community, but lost no sponsorship or $$ over this, how willing to correct himself do you think he'd be? How sorry, or willing to educate himself?

Look at it like this, if no one outside the nightclub had heard Michael Richard's racial slurs, do you think he would have toured the talk shows falling over himself with lame apologies? Do you think in his heart he's now enlightened and no longer prejudiced? Or, another analogy I think fits. Let's say you cheat on your wife, and get caught. You apologize profusely, you beg forgiveness, but is the betrayal something we should say "Well, gee, he's learned his lesson"?? Or, is it that his CHARACTER is such that he's a cheater. If his character wasn't an issue, he wouldn't have cheated to begin with.

Zumbo is not a dumb guy, he never was. He spoke from his heart with the capacity to understand fully what he was saying and why, and when it blew up like a hand grenade and hit him in the wallet, he's suddenly a new man. The truth is, even if he DOES learn something more about the RKBA and black rifles, even if he changes his mind he still damaged and insulted our cause and meant to do so.

Forgive that? Don't expect it or ask of me. I guess I'm not that big of a man.

For guntalk, my name is Craig Gibson, I live in Central Ohio. I don't need anonymity to speak my mind. I'd say every word of this to Zumbo's face, without hesitation.
 
>>I'm still not buying it, sorry Mr. Gresham<<

For the record, I'm not saying that anyone should take any particular action regarding Jim Zumbo. That's up to each person.

I've stated my position on this matter.

www.guntalk.com

Tom
 
Zumbo's message...if you can call it that.

I guess nobody has profited by the lesson contained in one simple Christian statement. Something to do with letting a person without sin cast the first stone? Anybody ever hear that? Some folks maybe in Vacation Bible School a long, long time ago? If you guys don't want to forgive Jim Zumbo then don't. If I decide I can then I am not going to be swayed by your vitriol anyway.
 
I guess nobody has profited by the lesson contained in one simple Christian statement. Something to do with letting a person without sin cast the first stone?

Hmmm... well, I haven't called for anyone's firearms to be banned... (picks up rock) ;)


Seriously though, I'm willing to give Mr. Zumbo an opportunity to let this all sink in and reform himself in the hope that he truly emerges from his ignorant/elitist mindset.
 
Oh, hell, if I posted a thread asking about the ethics of having an armed security guard at an abortion clinic (and no, that is NOT a viable topic for discussion), the religious fundamentalists would come outta the woodwork. And I bet that a lot of 'em still want Zumbo's blood.

Practice what you preach guys... Not just on Sunday morning.
 
We all know there are going to be some people out there who view the Second Amendment as being solely about hunting, most of us here don't share that view, hell, I don't share that view. However there are people who are going to believe that, call them Fudd's or whatever.

Now Jim Zumbo's current investigation into EBR's seems to be from his point of view of hunting, saying he had no idea they could be used for hunting and what not. If he goes out and makes Jim Zumbo Kills the Big Ones with an EBR Vol. 1 and starts selling it on DVD next year maybe, just maybe it won't be so bad for him to be focused on making EBR's useful to him. Just maybe some other "Fudd's" will say to themselves, "deer hunting with an AR? I must investigate." We have an opportunity, Jim Zumbo has an opportunity, to reach countless numbers of people who "don't get it," and make them get the baby steps towards full belief in the RKBA.

Also, Name's Todd Griffith, I live in Atoka, Oklahoma, anyone want to go shooting sometime let me know.
 
Apology from Zumbo in Cody Enterprise

http://www.codyenterprise.com/articles/2007/02/28/news/news3.txt
News

Outdoor writer apologetic for online criticism of assault rifles - By Jim
Zumbo

My recent blog on the Outdoor Life Web site was written with the interest of
the hunter's image in mind.

In it my use of some words inflamed America's gun community to the point
where, in less than 24 hours, they were able to mount enough pressure to
cause my TV sponsors to withdraw from my show. Outdoor Life magazine, under similar demands, asked for my resignation, which I reluctantly gave. I had worked for the magazine full time for almost 30 years.

Despite this, I hold no grudge against America's gun lobby. I have publicly
apologized and stated, "I was wrong - big time." Although I have always been active in advocating hunting rights, I've never thought of myself as a
spokesman for gun rights.

It was an inevitable outcome. Remember that throughout major firearms
incidents, such as the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy and Sen.
Bobby Kennedy, the more recent Columbine school shootings in Colorado, and the sniper shootings in the D.C. area, there have been flurries of bills to outlaw guns. Those of us who hunt and shoot, or simply own firearms for
protection, could have been severely impacted by those bills had they come to pass.

As an example, there have been bills written to do away with "sniper" rifles and "semi-automatic" firearms. To those of us who hunt, that "sniper" rifle
could include our Winchester bolt-action elk rifle, or our Browning or
Remington shotguns or .22s. The bottom line is that to hunt with a firearm,
we must be afforded the legal right to own one.

The Second Amendment, which guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms, has nothing to do with hunting, but everything to do with gun ownership. During the ensuing controversy surrounding my blog, some people have taken me to task for abandoning the Second Amendment. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If I ever, in my wildest dreams, thought the words I had written would bring the validity of the Second Amendment into question, I assure you I never would have touched my fingers to the keypad.

After more than 50 years of hunting, I've grown to favor certain types of
firearms that best suit my style of hunting. While comfortable in my niche,
which exclusively involves traditional bolt-action type rifles, I was
genuinely unaware of the growing popularity of the AR-15 types of firearms, and in fact, had seen only one in a hunting camp years ago.

Since posting my infamous blog Feb. 16, which subsequently has been removed, I've been exposed to a large and passionate number of shooters who enjoy using these types of guns on the range, as well as some who use them for hunting, especially varmints.

I also have received vast support from many who understood and agreed with my original intent. I realize now that the former image I conjured was largely an impression based on prejudice and misunderstandings. Your support is appreciated and I do not wish to alienate those of you who offered it, but hope that you will consider a broader more tolerant viewpoint as I have.

As a journalist, I intend to educate myself as to the entire question of these
firearms. In addition I will continue to support and protect the Second
Amendment. I'm now involved in an educational process to gather the facts and see for myself.

I'm writing this from Ted Nugent's ranch in Texas, where I'll work with Ted
and some law enforcement people to become acquainted with these firearms.

I sincerely thank all of you who have encouraged me in these trying times that have catapulted my name in the national media arena, much of it in a most unfavorable way.

It hasn't been easy for my wife and I, but our friends, fellow sportsmen and women, and even strangers have offered many prayers and much hope that help us through each day.
 
HSO: Holy mackeral that picture is just the epitome of cute.

JWarren: you said "6. Get very involved in 2nd Amendment legal defense, and again.. make it very public via articles and press releases."

Frankly, at this point I don't care if it's a PR campaign and all fake... if he fighting the good fight, even under false pretenses, that's a good thing. Heck, I'd let Feinstein herself spend her money on pro-2A stuff and laud her for it, even if it was just a stunt. Git' 'er done!
 
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