I'm happy with the "new" M14 rifle (pics)

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Medusa

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Got the new rifle (yeah right) - new job, new tools - to scope it and use it as a DMR /substitute sniper rifle.
(pics are made with cell phone, so quality may not be up to standards)
She is a plain Jane, nothing special by looks, as you can see, but in action she's smooth as a baby's skin and sweet as a lollypop.

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I used the standard US issue ball ammo, loaded on 5 round strippers. Interesting is that on the first walk from firing line to targets I found a magazine speedloader and handful of stripper clips of M14 rifle, in mud. These things are hard to come by here, but there they were. Fellow sniper did recommend using these strippers for holding loose ammo together and not banging/rattling in pocket for everybody to hear.

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She's a real deal, with "the switch". This feature is disconnected as you see, but still the rifle shot one 3 round burst, with me being :confused: and rangemaster :eek: . The rifle itself was pretty accurate, at 100m shooting the standard ball ammo into 2-3 inch circle, the burst increased one group to 5 inch size. So she's a killer if I do my job right.

Actually the women at range liked the rifle (we had some members from Female Home Guard - rough translation, a branch of Defence League, for active women), said it looks classic - symbios of metal and wood. But they hardly knew what it was. I even had to show the rangemaster/shooting instructor how to actually use that speedloader and clips together.

I did have one peculiar jam - round was loaded into chamber, but when pulling the trigger it felt like the hammer wasn't cocked at all - you know when you have pulled the trigger on empty chamber and try to pull it again, it moves certain amount but that's it. When I pulled the cartridge out after 30 secs, in case it was hang-fire, it had the dimple in the primer and on second try it shot.

One question to the knowing people, how old is she? Pic of the receiver:

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So shortly, I was happy to switch the 20 pound Teutonic trigger to something smooth, my usual rifle looked like that (she has seen better times) and shot a bit bad:

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Oh. the firing range looked like that a few months ago, from 150 m line, with knee deep snow:

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For current conditions just remove the snow and add a thin layer of reddish-brown sand/mud with a few tractor tracks.

She's a beauty and US personnel may be satisfied with one of these fine rifles being in good and caring hands.
 
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You own an original M14, and a lot of people in the US would give their left bolt (or nut) for it. Is it still fully automatic, or has it been sanitized?

Nice picks for a cellphone. Where in Europe are you?
 
Production Year

Very nice rifle.

H&R made rifles from 1959 to 1964. Based on the number shipped each year vs the serial number range, your rifle would be in the 1963 batch.

H&R delivered 199,776 rifles that year.
 
You own an original M14, and a lot of people in the US would give their left bolt (or nut) for it. Is it still fully automatic, or has it been sanitized?

Nice picks for a cellphone. Where in Europe are you?
Estonia, that's where I am. The switch is deactivated, but the mechanism should be intact. But this rifle has no use to full-auto capability anyway, since as I noted, it's more like a marksman rifle.
H&R made rifles from 1959 to 1964. Based on the number shipped each year vs the serial number range, your rifle would be in the 1963 batch.

H&R delivered 199,776 rifles that year.
Thanks, TexasRifleman.
 
Do you own it yourself, or is it something you use "on the job"?
I own it as long as I'm the member in Defence League, so it's both. But I will have it checked over, due those 2 oddities - burst and misfire.

To be solidary to those mistreated civilians in US, against the legendary H "you suck and we hate you" K, I sold off the G36K carbine. And to finance the scoping and little tinkering of the M14, to get it into being a pseudo-M21.
 
But I will have it checked over, due those 2 oddities - burst and misfire.

That's why most of the ones left in US service had the internals modified as well, rather than just disconnecting the happy switch.

There are stories of that happening here and there.
 
Based on your triple and misfire, it sounds like your trigger group's messed up.

For the misfire, it sounds like the hammer failed to engage the sear, and followed the bolt forward.

Remove the trigger group and inspect.

DO NOT LUBRICATE the trigger group, it's intended to work bone dry, which can also cause your symptoms. If it's lubed, you'll need to clean it out back to bare metal.

If it's already bone dry, check the sear surfaces for wear. Fortunately, the trigger group is modular and easy to replace.
 
Geek, it was bone dry, I'll check the surfaces for wear. She isn't in her first youth, so the wear could be the reason. Sadly we don't have any replacement trigger groups, I'd have to buy one in (a little difficult, since the law considers an important part of firearm a firearm), or take another rifle.

Gun laws here? They'd drive you nuts in the first 5 minutes.

If you're first time gunowner:
you go to see the general practice doctor, to get the medical sertificate that you're healthy enough to actually use guns. They check eyes, general health, mental health (yeah you get to see the shrink). And state has put taxes on almost everything. The medical thing is about $30 and takes time.

Then you go to police departement, there you have to make an exam (in knowing laws and first aid). To get it passed you must score 8 correct answers from 10. If answer isn't complete or is partially correct you don't get half-points. It's either full-right, or wrong. Exam is $20. If you fail you have to wait at least a month to get the chance of repeating it. They also check your registry, whether you are done something illegal or not.

After the theoretical part is passed you have to show the proper handling of firearm - safety rules, have to know what is called what on a firearm, ie where's slide, hammer, receiver, extractor etc.

Then you get the RIGHT to give in the application, clearly stating what firearm, how many and for what (self defence, sporting, hunting) you want. And you can't have whatever firearm for whatever role. Ie longarm cannot be reasoned with self-defence.

The application process takes time, a few weeks, where in the meanwhile a police officer comes by to check whether you have proper storage conditions. If you have only one handgun you don't have to have a safe, but when there's more than one, or a longgun you must have a safe. When you have more than 8 firearms you must have a safe room.

When the applications is processed you get the paperworks that allow you to purchase the firearm, which quantity and type is mentioned on paper. Then you buy the gun and within 7 working days you show the gun and papers in the PD where they check if the numbers match. Within a week or two you get the proper notification on you gun-owner permit (what gun, serial number, intended role (SD/sporting/hunting)). When buying ammo you can only buy those calibres that are mentioned on the permit. And you pay the taxes. Handguns have a 200$ stamp on them, longarms 20$ (yeah, 10x difference). Plus about 15$ for the changing of the permit (new entry on it).

IF you're buying another gun of the type you already have:
You just go to PD, give in the application and wait the processing out, you get the papers and can go shopping. No exams, medical checks.

If you buy a gun the type you don't have then by current law you don't have to make a new exam, but it will change soon. With each new type (the types, btw, are handguns, rifled longarms, smoothbores).

Suppressors and full autos are illegal for civilians, lasers and adapters of different cals are restricted (you must get the permit from the Chief of Police to be allowed to go through all that application process mentioned before).

Practically even if you can own a gun for SD it's still a legal nightmare when you actually use one in that role. Most of the time the criminal is made the victim and you get canned. There are a lot lesser cases where the good guy wins than the vice versa version. The law is pretty bad in this situation:
if the BG yells obscures, waves a knife in demonstrative manner, threatens, it's not considered to be an imminent attack, threat that authorizes the use of firearm (even pulling it out, when you do then you're the attacker). You have the right to shoot somebody only when you're being already under attack by larger group, already stabbed or being shot at. As they say, you have 0.3 sec to make the decision, detective has 3 months to figure out what you could have done differently.

At least the crime rate in this part of the country isn't big. Crimes that actually involve firearms are pretty rare, as you can count them up on your fingers per year. In the capitol the things are little worse, where people do get mugged, especially tourists, by those mistreated youth, usually from some ethnic minority group. And there are several places where I don't go without a loaded gun (and preferably a frag or two).

The gun law is about to change, giving silencers into civilian use, but since there's post-election coalition talks things have been delayed a bit. The threat assesment may change a bit too.

If you're not a pure civilian (like me) the things are a little more lax. You can own the full-auto firearm, or any other that are considered to be military firearm (like Tokarev TT-33) but they go to military registry, not police one. Tax thing is also a lot easier, as you mostly don't have any. And by law when on duty I could drive around in public transportation with a beltfed MG slung over one shoulder and AT launcer over another (though it's not preferred), and PD can't take them. But if turning back to civilian life you must turn up all military arms.

Heh, day when I shot the M14 rifle we drove back to town, with HQ being in the middle of it we did a little walking around with rifles, from parking spot to HQ, with people being :confused: :eek: :what: and we being :evil: . Once we went to gas station, in army Unimog, with whole squad painted and equipped (2 MGs and a lot of rifles), to get a coke . Yeah, those fun days.
 
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As we're already here, then I have one more question:
the armorer told me that the M14 must be cleaned dry, no oil or cleaning stuff, never. Manual on the other hand does state the the places that must be dry, indeed, but notes that the moving parts must be oiled, as the barrel. Lightly, indeed, but still.

Oh, and the gunlaws - there are about 20,000 gunowners in this country, from 1.3 million people. Sad.
 
It's a beautiful rifle, and looks to be in much better shape than the 17 M14s I've seen over here in Afghanistan. Congratulations, and treat her well. :)

John
 
My two favorite issues in the Army were M21SWS and XM25. I ended up with of course an M24SWS, which I also loved. There is a definite place/role fo a semi auto rifle in the Sniper community depending on mission.
 
My two favorite issues in the Army were M21SWS and XM25. I ended up with of course an M24SWS, which I also loved. There is a definite place/role fo a semi auto rifle in the Sniper community depending on mission.

True. I get the semi auto because the snipers mostly have self-bought bolts and the doctrine doesn't see the use of dedicated pairs, but rather small teams. So the intention is for me to be the semi-accurate fire support. Or something like that.

Besides as I said, there's no dedicated bolt-action sniper rifle in Defence League, or in the army, and not planned too in the near future. Also those Galil Snipers are getting worn out, leaving the M14 as the only suitable platform. Thoughts are to pick out better specimens and make them into something M21 like. So mine is an early bird.
 
As we're already here, then I have one more question:
the armorer told me that the M14 must be cleaned dry, no oil or cleaning stuff, never. Manual on the other hand does state the the places that must be dry, indeed, but notes that the moving parts must be oiled, as the barrel. Lightly, indeed, but still.
Medusa, the M14, like it's predecessor, the M1 Garand, needs GREASE as the lubricant on certain key areas of it's mechanism.

Go here to see where grease is to be applied: http://www.nicolausassociates.com/images/M14 Grease Points.jpg
 
From what I'd read of Gunny Hathcock, an accurized M-14 was toted by his spotter, whose role in those days was spotter, security overwatch, and #2 sniper.

It's a shame getting a new trigger group's a big deal over there. Over here, it's an unregulated part, which the law views as an unremarkable $85 hunk of spring loaded metal.

If it weren't in violation of whatever laws, I'd just mail you one.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

As others have noted, the manual is correct. Certain parts, basically the op rod and bolt, especially the rollers, _require_ grease, or they'll malf in the rain. The trigger group and gas assembly are to be bone dry, except for the threads of the gas nut, which ought to be carefully and lightly greased, without getting any in the gas system itself.

Also, get your hands on the drills, for cleaning out the gas system every 500ish rounds or so. Lock the action open, and turn the rifle up and down a few times. If the gas piston is moving freely, it's OK. When it starts to catch, it's time to muck out the carbon deposits.
 
Geek, I did a lot of sniffing around, since the trigger group is separate from the receiver (which is equalized to a weapon) it is not considered to be an important part, meaning I could buy one freely (as one authority understood the law). I understood before that all the internals are thought to be guns. But as I said, there's none to buy here, closest place is US.

Dangit, I may have to move over, to get to shoot guns. Normal range time here is once a month, less than 100 rounds per time.

You know, gun is like a contagious disease here - if you have one then by all holy keep it to yourself and never-ever express it; you should be in shame of owning something that dangerous and be in isolation. That's the attitude, and the fact that only 1.5% population is gunowners doesn't help to better it.
 
Medusa, what kind of access do you Estonians have to small arms from Russia? Can you get Dragunovs? AK type rifles? If so, what are the general prices (in Euros) of rifles and pistols in Estonia?

Thanks again for the great pics!
 
Technicly we can buy AK-s and Dragunovs, or any other thingie the russian factories chew out, as long as the guns and you compatible by the laws (ie when you're actually allowed to own a certain gun).

Prizes? Higher than US, usually. 1€ is around 1.3$ right now
- Tigr (SVD civilian analog) costs about 1000€, real SVD (if you get it at last) is several hundred €-s more. Last time I saw PM and TT they were around 200-300€, sometimes more, sometimes less.
- handguns: CZ75 is 600€, Glock at least 800€, Sigs are on 1000€, HK also something like that, Taurus pistols are something like 500€.
- rifles: cheapes ones in stores are .22 rifles, at least 400€ (only Toz was 200€), centerfires are usually at least 500-600€.

For comparision, usual salary per month is in the range of 400-600€, bruto. (low end people get it, as nurses, paramedics, LEO-s, firemen, teachers etc etc). And they wonder why the there's serious lack of manpower in those mentioned areas (for example, it's not rare for a firetruck to roll out only with a driver). And when being in the Defence League you actually pay to protect the country. Irony.

But it's usually a nice place, Estonia that is, so you're all welcome to drop by. You can always PM me, if there's something you like to know.

Also, thanks to all helpful guys. Without friendly THR members I wouldn't know many things that I do now.
 
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