Remington Arms Has Been Sold...

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Forget it... I forgot about the first rule of arguing on the internet.

Rah Rah, tariffs good, imports bad...

return to your regularly scheduled episode of Lou Dobbs.

atek3

Well, let's see: we grew and reached our height economically and industrially, following Hamilton's advice for the first 160+ years. Now we go to globalism and free trade and what do we have? Our industry gutted, a "service economy" with 30-50 year old people working at home depots and walmarts in much of the country, and younger people having a hard time getting any decent paying job. Yeah, globalism, outsourcing, etc. is wonderful. Sell your country out and feel great about it. Support chinese communists and third world dictators in the name of profit. Disgusting (and I'm being rather reserved and not saying all that I really think of this). Supporting China through stripping Americans of jobs and giving them to the Chinese, and sending our factories and technology there in the process (China's leaders have been recorded as saying we're their enemy, etc.) is rendering aid and comfort to an enemy, treason as defined in the Constitution.
 
We have no duty to have free trade with third world slums where workers are nearly slaves (as opposed to more expensive American labor) or known or suspected enemies. Our first duty is to ourselves and the government's main job is defense, whether it be military or protection of our economy against these enemies. I'll take Hamilton's sound and practical advice (which was proven to be good advice) over some pie in the sky/overly-optimistic advice.

Hamilton's advice led us to become and industrial giant, free trade has led us to an economy where cooking burgers is considered "manufacturing." And if we go so far as to export our arms manufacturing, our days are numbered shortly.
 
Couldn't have said it better, Antique. America first.

Since Winchester shut down their New Haven plant, I've told myself that I will never buy a Winchester firearm (when I turn 18, 'cause we all know that someone who is old enough to drive a car and choose to have sex doesn't have the ability to use a firearm properly). We need to send some letters to Conglom-O and request that they keep Remington an American company. Not really "request". More like "demand".
 
Great. I'm all for waiting to see how the whole Bushmaster deal pans out before I'll start worrying about what will happen with Remington. However I still don't hold a great deal of hope. Most of us up here in Michigan don't.
 
At least Lou Dobbs is concerned about the plight of us American workers. There are way too many ready to sell us out.
 
For whatever reason, Remington has been a history of f---ups.

Periodically, they hit a home run, but on the whole, they screw up a LOT, and it's often in ways that should be easy to foresee.

The Nylon 66 was an enormously popular .22; when the tooling wore out, they just quit making it. Would Ruger quit making the 10/22, or Marlin the 60, if their tooling wore out? Or would they replace/upgrade the tooling?

The last new Remington shotgun design that really appealed to sophisticated shotgunners was the 3200. It was "too expensive to produce", so they proceeded to spend a lot more money designing and tooling up for the 300 series, which has been an unmitigated flop. Now, a Remington shotgun is what you buy when you can't afford better. Deserved or not, this is not a good reputation to have, in the high-end recreation marketplace! (Meanwhile, a 20-year-old 3200 costs as much as a new gun, or a good B-gun, and high-end buyers go elsewhere.)

In the marketplace for competition shotguns, I have no choice but to go outside the US. I'd rather buy American, but I can't afford custom. Remington could build a gun as good as a Citori. It's not that hard, the Citori's not that cheap, and the design has been around for at least as long as the 870.

The 700 has further issues. Instead of fixing a supposed safety problem by doing a little engineering, Big Green removed the bolt lock and made the trigger really heavy, and just left it that way. I bought a Weatherby Howa gun, essentially a copy of the 700 action, made in Japan, but with a user-adjustable trigger (no voided warranty for doing so) and a bolt lock on safe. What the?!? I was looking at Remingtons...

Contrary to the Express-bashers, the Express is a damn good shotgun, particularly for well under $300, with the new laminate stock and machined rib. There's just not a lot of profit in a budget hunting gun. You have to get people who like shotgunning to aspire to a Remington, too, not just start with Remingtons and move on to other guns! I can be very brand loyal, but if Remington doesn't even make a gun to move up to, I am lost as a future customer, despite loving my Remmies.

Remington was years ahead of their competitors with the 1100 when it came out. They squandered that lead, over and over again.

The 105CTi is also way ahead of the competition, or could be. It appears they released it with a few bugs. This could sully its reputation forever, a sad thing, because it's a wonderful gun to shoot, with essentially no felt recoil and wonderful balance. Meanwhile, Benelli's relentless marketing machine gets newbies to spend $1500 on a blowback gun with a crappy plastic stock, and sophisticated shotgunners who want an autoloader buy Berettas.

Beretta beat Remington 10+ years ago, but it needn't have been a long-term defeat. Remington didn't fight back until now. The 1100 G3 and Competition models are beautiful. The 105 and the new 1100s should have come out 10 years earlier, before Remington let Beretta make such huge inroads into a market that Big Green had sewn up for a long time.

The 597 is a great .22, but Remington released it with a major bug, and it will never recover from the bad reputation it gained. The bug is fixed (magazines), and it cost a few cents a gun to fix it. DUMB!!!

The 710 (now 770) is a POS. Remington gave Savage so much time to pull ahead, that they had no trouble. Now Savage threatens not just the low-end guns, but the flagship 700 as well, and Savage deserves to win.

This isn't about globalization, so much as it is about chickens coming home to roost. Management chickens.

My first shotgun, and my second, are both Remingtons. I like them! I don't want to see Remington go down, or become nothing but a badge to stick on Russian clunkers and Italian also-ran shotguns. If I want an Italian shotgun for $2000, I'll buy a known gun directly from a reputable manufacturer. There are plenty to choose from.

This change will cure them, or kill them. I hope it's the former.
 
I think Remington will make a "come-back" with their new 1100's IMHO. They know now that people will spend more money on autos, the market is more than "big-box" lower priced Walmart guns.

I say "come-back", but I'd still buy an existing 1100 over the Beretta because of shooting qualities, etc. Lot's of people do and I assume Remington sells a ton of 1100...old style.

They should have kept the 3200 and/or modified it, but it's that high volume or nothing atitude IMHO. If they weren't making money, raise the price and "offer" more. But, American companies have never been "big" with O/U's, at least for competition. They are "afraid" of pricing IMO...no guts. ;)
It's been the Italians and Japanese for a long time. With their new Italian O/U, which looks like all the other Italian guns, I doubt they will try a new O/U...too bad. Unless the 332 can be made for the rigors of competition...not sure? They look "cheap", but that is easily corrected. Are they poorly made, not durable?

A new, modified 3200 could easily sell for $2500-$3,000 range...with the right quality and options.
 
A sad day for those of us that prefer Remingtons. This same investment group has recently put their hands in the company I work for. For their 4.5 mill investment 3 months ago they have already received 42 mill in returns. This is not enough for them. After the 40% pay cut we took before they came in they now want us to take further cuts in pay and wipe out all benefits accept healthcare to which has been cut down from being great coverage to not even covering office visits and wanting us to pay 50% of premiums. We work in tolerances measured in microns which is 1/100th of a millimeter. How long do you think quality like that will last with workers making close to min. wage with junk healthcare. I can only believe they will try similar measures at Remington. As much as I would like to boycott remington I can only think of the employees who count on their paychecks. I encourage my fellow gun nuts to keep our eyes and ears open to not only the guns they now make but the way in which they treat the employees that made these guns with pride.
 
Interesting.

As others have said, Remington has had its share of management goofs that have cost the company dearly.

If this company can turn Remington around, get it profitable, and continue to make excellent guns (I love the Rem700), then I'm all for that. Changes in management can be difficult, but I have no doubt that the Big Green will pull through.

As attractive as overseas manufacturing can seem to management, it's generally frowned upon by buyers, particularly when a company has such a long reputation for being made in the US. Although Glock and Springfield XD pistols are made in Austria and Croatia, respectively, they were originally designed there by companies respective to those countries, so most people I know have little problem with them...same thing with CZ products. I certainly have no problem buying foreign made guns, but I dislike buying guns that were formerly made in the US, but now outsourced simply due to pricing concerns.

Guns are highly durable items, and paying a few more dollars now for a quality gun made by skilled craftsmen here in the US doesn't seem like that big of a deal, considering I spend far more than the value of the gun on ammo in the long run.

Let's hope Cerberus can turn Remington around and manage it properly.
 
I would certainly trust Cerberus before I's trust the Ruger family.:evil:

As for cutting labor costs, well yes. You've got to modernize and mechanize to survive. Labor intensive production costs (unions) sank Colt, and Winchester (USRA.)

Let's hope Cerberus will automate the process and turn out a better gun at a lower cost.
 
I say "come-back", but I'd still buy an existing 1100 over the Beretta because of shooting qualities, etc. Lot's of people do and I assume Remington sells a ton of 1100...old style.

I did. Of course I bought a used one, with a Magnum receiver. It's a good gun, but Remington didn't make money when I bought a used one.

Unless the 332 can be made for the rigors of competition...not sure? They look "cheap", but that is easily corrected. Are they poorly made, not durable?

A new, modified 3200 could easily sell for $2500-$3,000 range...with the right quality and options.

True.

That leads me to a major f---up I forgot about...

The 332 was sold only as a field gun, and only in 12 Gauge. The 1100 was sold in Sporting, Trap and Skeet versions, in 12, 16, 20, 28 and 410.

DUMB!!!

American shotgunners who shoot both types of guns generally use a semiauto in the field and an O/U at the range, almost NEVER the other way around. Sure, more people are going afield with doubles again, but the way you get into the O/U market is at the range. That's where an O/U's reputation is made.

WRT mass-market appeal, I'd say that the Browning O/U's seem to sell a few units here and there. Considering that Remington could likely make as much profit on a single 3200 Trap or Sporting gun as they can on a pallet of 870 Expresses, I don't 'get' their math.
 
Don't know if any one had mentioned or heard this but- Cerbus is one of the groups who is considering buying Chrysler- maybe Jeeps will start comming with a Remmi as a standard accs.:what:
 
What's the big deal? It's not the first time that Remington Arms has been bought and sold....

DuPont owned them for years.
 
American management has done in more companies than products. Maybe now Rem will get the management it deserves.
I hope it works out well but we will have to wait and see, give it 3 years for us to know.
 
HMMMMMM..suppose Cereberus wanted to become the major player in the U.S. law enforcement market and position themselves as potentially a top military supplier...

I wonder what they would do?

Maybe buy the best-selling black rifle company in America...maybe buy an old established company that has a rock-solid LEO position in tactical rifles and shotguns...

And might it be a bonus that the old established company has been thrashing with too many SKUs and a difuse focus? And might it be an additional bonus that the hunting market, which, while shrinking, represents a huge pool of potential purchasers of a hunting-targeted black, well, green, rifle? And might it be a fortuitous coincidence that said black rifle manufacturer, in conjunction with major hunting ammunition manufactuer, introduces a .45 caliber hunting black rifle and cartridge just before the second acquisition?

HMMMMM...naw...makes too much sense! They probably just want to outsource everything to Whacki-tobacci-stan!

Michael B
 
+1 Mr. Bane;) . If I was Colt or FN I'd be getting a little worried about now. All Cerebrus needs now is a pistol Manufacturer....look out Ruger:neener: .
BTW business is business and free market Capitalism always wins in the end, the world IS a global market, has been for some time and ain't nothing going to change that. The Darwin theory wins out, change,adapt or die.
 
It matters little.

There is not a gun shop in America that you walk in to and see at a minimum half a dozen used Remington's and likely a whole bunch more. Even if they make radical changes to the product line it will be at least a generation before the old guns will be either rare or too expensive to buy. That said they may be able to improve the line.

I do not know where rem1187a works but it is a hopeful sign that they did not break down the manufacturing line of his company and move it to China the day they took over. Often times during a takeover the takeover company has to assume such a large amount of debt that the poorly run company had racked up that is really the only way to make the product profitable again.

It remains to be seen what will happen here but Remington has had a few bad years when nearly every other gun maker is going gangbusters. Between the lifting of the AWB and the two wars we have fought in the last six years any company the size of Remington making arms and munitions has no excuse not to have seen annual double digit growth.
 
I believe the biggest issue with Remingtons financial troubles stems that their product line is geared towards the ever decreasing hunting market. That market is so tapped out, with redundent products their is little room for growth. They do not make many non hunting firearms, unlike other manufactures such as Savage that make target grade firearms. What Remington needs to do is cut their line up to their best selling firearms, and start designing target/home defense weapons.
 
I don't like the way this is looking!!

Early in 2006 Cerberus joined with SUPERVALU grocery, CVS Corporation, and Kimco Realty to buy grocery chain Albertsons in a deal worth $9.6 billion.

I wondered why most of the Albertsons, closed all of a sudden, here in the metro Phoenix AZ area!!

They were literally open one day and closed the next!! :eek: :fire:

I fear for Big Green!! ;)
 
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