California college student busted on AW charges; had MySpace pics

..."we need to maintain the ability to overthrow the government if it turns against us again." I won't lie, this is scary stuff. But that's what the 2nd Amendment's for dammit.

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About sums it up.

Cosmoline said,

The state, least of all the state of California, isn't anyone's mommy or daddy.

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Ok, bad analogy. Any analogy is a bad analogy. But you get the point.

I understand the point of not poking the dragon

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And, that is the point. The only chance we have of winning the battle is to convince the other side they have nothing to fear. Because, if it were to come down to fighting in the streets (another bad analogy), no matter who wins, we all lose.

So we need to go ahead and win the battle by winning the hearts and minds of the opposition.

I would agree that there are probably more effective protests than hanging yourself on myspace.

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In point of fact, for all we know, the subject in the original article is guilty of numerous felonies. If that's the case, I have no sympathy for him.

If, however, he's been wrongly accused and his rifles are California legal, then I sympathize with his struggles.

But we are, after all, a nation of laws. And I have no patience for anyone who intimates armed rebellion or violating the law. Those people need to move to a country where lawlessness is the norm.

I'm a Christian. Romans 13 tells me to obey the law.

This country was formed in an armed rebellion.
The founders wrote the law to give the people the ability to rebel against the government.
It is a civic duty.

I have a picture of me firing my brothers AK on my facebook and myspace pages... its really cool, caught the muzzle blast in the photo. I wonder if they are going to come arrest me too

This country was formed in an armed rebellion.
The founders wrote the law to give the people the ability to rebel against the government.
It is a civic duty.

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You're getting way ahead of yourself. You act like you want civil war.

We can win the easy way. We can convert the non gunnies to our perspective.

I'm a preacher. My writing and sermons contain voluminous references to our right to keep and bear arms. I typically speak to non gun people, but they are coming around to our way of thinking.

I could never convert these people to the RKBA if I alienated them.

1 Cor 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

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This is from the apostle Paul. He became all things to all men in order to convert them to truth. It doesn't mean sacrificed truth. It merely means he made the effort to see things from their perspective. Then he was able to convert them to his way of thinking.

We can convert them to our way of thinking. It's called persuasive speech. I do it all the time.

Unless you have your heart set on armed insurrection. Is that what you're saying? Are you calling for armed revolt against the United States of America?

This is why you don't post what you don't want people to know on the internet. You don't tell anyone.

Unless you have your heart set on armed insurrection. Is that what you're saying? Are you calling for armed revolt against the United States of America?

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No, I hope it does not come to that.
I see that as a possibility if things follow the course they are taking.
I will vote for change, I will try to wake people to the danger.
I will as a last resort join with those will fight.
That is a LAST resort. But that is why the 2nd amendment was written.

No, I hope it does not come to that.

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It is not going to come to that in the lifetime of anyone alive right now.

The antigunners will continue to make our pursuit as difficult as they can, but they will not succeed in eliminating private ownership of firearms. Not in our lifetime. And not in the lifetime of our children.

Proof of this, in my mind, is the fact that comparatively few current career politicians are willing to touch the issue. From either party.

They obviously recognize the anti gun perspective is not only fatal to their career, but more and more of them are realizing that less guns equals more crime.

In fact, the left-wing ABC news aired an article which blew my mind.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3083618&page=1

Read the entire thing, but this statement floored me, coming from a left-wing news source:

The sad truth is that if gun laws had been less strict in Virginia, there is a possibility that the tragedy at Virginia Tech could have claimed fewer lives.

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You see, our tactics of the past 30 years are bearing fruit. We are winning them over.

Persuasion. It's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of intelligence.

This fellow goes before a magistrate today, correct? Anyone got any updates?

Check Calguns thread. Things are still very early.

What you apparantly fail to comprehend is that the only way we're going to preserve firearm rights in America is to convert the unconverted to our way of thinking.

Trust me. This is my job. This is what I do. Persuasive speech.

And it's not accomplished by intimidation. And violent imagery via slogans and quasi military appearance to the uninitiated is definitely intimidating.

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You very well may be right. However, I believe there are quite a few instances where this can be disproven. Most people will "just go along" with the events being perpetrated by their governments (or whoever is in power), regardless of what those events are. Most world-view changes don't go on passively, unless you're dealing with actual public schooling and the desecration of the status quo. No, throughout history world-view change has usually occurred violently and forcefully, whether it was the rise of the Nazi party in Germany, the Bolsheviks gaining power, or that lady down at town hall who beat the town's Board around the head until they commissioned some new snazi art for the library's park.

We haven't gotten CCW in most states over the last decade simply by being passive aggressive. People have made some pretty aggressive moves in their states, repeatedly, saying "we need to be allowed this right for our safety", not by middle-of-the-roading it.

People have made some pretty aggressive moves in their states, repeatedly, saying "we need to be allowed this right for our safety", not by middle-of-the-roading it.

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To whom are you referring? I definitely do not "middle of the road" anything. I'm a public speaker and have delivered the RKBA message to large crowds on numerous occasions.

I tackle the issue head on. Not indirectly.

I approach it intelligently. Not in an hysterical fashion. That's the only way we're going to preserve and expand rights of gun ownership.

I write politicians and demand they honor the 2nd amendment. And for years that was the only issue upon which I voted.

You don't know what passive aggressive means.

What I do not do is subtly threaten to shed blood if they come for my guns. To make such implied or expressed boasts is stupid and counterproductive.

We haven't gotten CCW in most states over the last decade simply by being passive aggressive.

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And we haven't gotten it by brandishing firearms and spouting cliches like, "Come and get them, either." We've done it at the voting booth. That's where the battle is won or lost.

Trust me. This is my job. This is what I do. Persuasive speech.

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Yeah, because you've done a helluva job in this thread.

watched the video, more BS, but he was still an idiot. Should have kept it to himself.

Yeah, because you've done a helluva job in this thread.

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Sorry, you're in no position to know who I've persuaded, or not.
2,225 views. I've only had a couple dissenters.

I'll say it...

Yes, I would rather go for an all out war! I would rather die for what I believe is right then to be some boot licking snivler!

This guy is 23 and hasn't been convicted of anything, more then likely he'll be forced to plea bargain. How do think he's going to feel when he can no longer own firearms? This whole thing is over reaction from Va.Tech as the judge imposed a restraining order against him. He can no longer go to college where he is the student union president. His bail was also set at 365K!!!

Voting from the rooftops is closer then you think! Time to get off the fence and chose a side.

armed bear said:

You have a detachable magazine on the SKS?
If you don't, I don't think that BATFE rules about that stuff applies. And if you do, you're already violating CA law anyway.

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I don't know if that's true or not. The law is pretty confusing...

http://www.tapco.com/section922r.aspx

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

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By your own site it says that under section 925(d) that any "SKS style rifle with [a] folding stock, folding bayonet, or detachable magazine" is banned from importation. But turner's sells the SKS with the bayonet. So now what? I suppose it's because it's okay because it has C&R status. But certainly adding one of them tapco pistol grip stocks would change the situation? I'm confused and so was the guy who wrote that article on those issues.

Really this still points to the fact that the law is confusing, and thus scary to think that you may be beheld as guilty and SWATTED at night because someone thought you assembled a cali-illegal rifle. While the unlisted lowered AR is likely more questionable than the Tapco stock without replacing the parts with U.S. ones, certainly, there are Cali-legal AR/FNs, but they'd look illegal in a myspace page.

And if mere site of one is probable cause enough, whats to keep them from scoping you out at range when you take your FFL sold, cali-legal FN-FAL hardware out, or your Pistol Gripped SKS and then SWATTING you in your sleep after a fun day of shooting?

Sure you'd probably get off after $15,000 in attorney fees, a few nights in a holding cell with gang-members, hundreds in Bond Fees, and ruptured eardrums from the Flash Bangs... but I'm not one to take those chances especially with small kids in the house. So I'm left with the crappy yugo stock on the rifle and wishing I'd bought a Garand instead.

a couple of things:

Leatherneck wrote:

The Defense Department. ***? In civil law enforcement? What?

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Defense Department has DOD Police, i.e. civilian federal agents that complement Army CID, etc. they are designated as an 1811, which in the federal world means "Federal Agent/Criminal Investigator", no different than a Federal Agent of the FBI, etc. they are the guys that have jurisdiction over the civilian populace regarding all things military, like, possible stolen military equipment.

Mettalic wrote:

And here is another case of our constitutional rights being violated. Since when is it reasonable for bail to be set so high that you have to sell your house just to give the bondsman his 10%?

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In California, there is a felony bail schedule outlined for each county. Monterey Park, i believe, is in Los Angeles County. thus for each felony charge there is a set amount of bail. for each firearm he is accused of having in an illegal configuration, each is a separate criminal count. so if he had 4 firearms in illegal configuration then it is that felony bail amount x 4.

add in all of the other accused felonies and it can quickly go to $500,000.

Derek Zeanah wrote:

Would you agree or disagree with this statement as a summary of what "maintaining situational awareness" means in a CCW sense?

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perhaps that would be a valid argument if the accused had a valid CA CCW? not saying that his quote is good or bad, but remember, if this goes before a jury, the jury will probably be reading whatever is on his myspace page.

Wes Janson wrote:

Posting mall ninja pictures on MySpace should not lead to SWAT teams outside your door early in the morning. Period.

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exactly. and no SWAT team showed up. it's your imagination. can someone please show where a SWAT team showed up at this guy's residence for the warrant service? im not seeing it. it appears a group of detectives and some guys from DOD and ATF showed up. no mention anywhere of a SWAT team, but it sure looks good to say a SWAT team showed up, doesnt it?

Anyone got the cliffs' notes on what happened to this fellow today? I saw something about a 2 week delay on his arraignment, but that's nothing verified. Did he make bail? What evil lies in the hearts of men?

Also, can someone tell me the deal with these magazines that are welded or locked in? What is that all about. I assume to prevent someone from easily and/or quickly changing magazines, but how the hell do you load the thing then?

Follow the links from the first post to CalGuns, the most up to date info is there.

Also, can someone tell me the deal with these magazines that are welded or locked in? What is that all about. I assume to prevent someone from easily and/or quickly changing magazines, but how the hell do you load the thing then?

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CA considers a rifle with pistol grip and detachable mag an "Assault Weapon"

To make a CA legal AR-15, your rifle must be built on a receiver that is NOT on this list.. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf

The mag is fixed using a nut or screw.. Most people use a kit like this.. http://www.coldwarshooters.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=129 .. To load the gun, you have to break it open and load it from the top.

Bushmaster and few other small gun companies have "approval" to make CA AR's.. http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/azc-c15rm4ft.asp .. http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=213 Notice how the Atlantic Firearms rifle says, "approved by the CA Dept of Justice and comes with approval letter."

Most people build their own rifle though. The CA DOJ hasnt explicity given their blessing to people home built rifle configs.. Also, many LEOs think ALL AR-15s are banned period. That's where the conflict comes it.

Two words come to mind while looking at this entire debacle:

Victimless Crimes.


How can they in good conscience lock somebody up and charge them with crimes that'll have him in prison for the rest of his life for owning constitutionally protected tools?

There's one of two ways this will end: With the SCOTUS overturning his charges on grounds of unconstitutionality, or with a very angry gun owning populace. I'll leave it at that.

This is an easy argument to settle.

The founding fathers gave the people the right to keep and bear arms. The reason they thought it was so important was to prevent and stop a Government gone rogue. That's also the reason the American military is not allowed to act within the boundaries of the United States.

The founders were extremely intelligent, we should always defer to their wisdom.

These are great words: "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

What is it that is so confusing about the words shall not be infringed?

The antis will stretch the 1st Amendment to the breaking point while shrinking the 2nd Amendment to oblivion. The US Constitution must be protected totally and equally. We can't pick the parts we like and set aside the parts we dislike. We treat it as a whole and it is the Supreme Law Of The Land.

Live it every day, "....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Thank you for your time...