Anteater1717
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Look 
.I want a semi auto and live in CA so there aren’t many options. How’s 100 yd accuracy.
.I want a semi auto and live in CA so there aren’t many options. How’s 100 yd accuracy.
Talk me into or out of a KEL-TEC SU-16A
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BADUNAME13
Member
I have played with one with a cheap red dot in it.
Minute of coke can 100- ~150 yards.
I would consider it a GREAT plinker, or car gun.
But not something for serious use.
SAIGA, M1A, M1A M1... for serious use.
Minute of coke can 100- ~150 yards.
I would consider it a GREAT plinker, or car gun.
But not something for serious use.
SAIGA, M1A, M1A M1... for serious use.
Anteater1717
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are saigas legal in ca if so how.
The SU-16 is a good rifle. If you get the chance to try one out, go for it. They're reliable and fairly accurate. About as accurate as a standard AR-15. There are tons of posts all over the net about owners who have torture tested them trying to break them. They have a good reputation for reliability. I doubt they're "military" reliable, but probably more than enough for our needs. A lot like a Mini-14 with better accuracy and easier to find mags. The "bipod" feature is pretty worthless though.
kcmarine
Member
Every time someone buys a Kel- Tec SU-16, 5 puppies are killed.
There you go.
There you go.
silverlance
Member
do your research. you'll find good options.
as for the kt16- i have the CA and it's quite good.
as for the kt16- i have the CA and it's quite good.
The Deer Hunter
Member
Well, somones gotta take care of those feral dogs...
sansone
Member
kel-tec is not one of my favorite guns, but they have great customer service
MassMark
Member
I bought an SU-16A for my wife, so she could have a lightweight 5.56 - she's hooked on her Inland M1 Carbine, so I have been playing around with it, (I love it when that happens... ). It's a great little rifle - certainly not something for serious military use, but I have tortured this gun and it just won't quit. It's light, folds in half, can be tucked into a rucksack or day pack, takes AR-15 mags, stores one in the stock, (or 2 10-rounders). The stock sights blow, (upgrade to Bravo's), but center mass hits with it out to 100-yards are a snap. I stuck my Aimpoint Comp M2 on top after going with a Trijicon on my M1A and it's minute of tea-saucer all day long. Been kicking around replacing the bipod forend with a rail forend. I do find the bipod a bit flimsy feeling, but totally functional. Watch the barrel though, it's toasty....Trigger pull is a tad mushy, but it's effective and mag dumps are simple and fast.
I think it's a nice rifle at a nice price and in Kali, may just be the ticket...
). It's a great little rifle - certainly not something for serious military use, but I have tortured this gun and it just won't quit. It's light, folds in half, can be tucked into a rucksack or day pack, takes AR-15 mags, stores one in the stock, (or 2 10-rounders). The stock sights blow, (upgrade to Bravo's), but center mass hits with it out to 100-yards are a snap. I stuck my Aimpoint Comp M2 on top after going with a Trijicon on my M1A and it's minute of tea-saucer all day long. Been kicking around replacing the bipod forend with a rail forend. I do find the bipod a bit flimsy feeling, but totally functional. Watch the barrel though, it's toasty....Trigger pull is a tad mushy, but it's effective and mag dumps are simple and fast. I think it's a nice rifle at a nice price and in Kali, may just be the ticket...
browningguy
Member
I've got an A and a C model. My wife prefer the stock on the A, I prefer the sights on the C. Guess a CA is next.
Both of mine have been completely reliable. Try a few decent loads to see what works best, as an example even scoped the best I could get out of the A model was 2.25-2.5" (5 shot groups at 100). Until I tried the Black Hills 52 gr. Moly reloads, instantly cut an inch off the average group size.
For Califoria I would definately go with the CA model, slightly shorter but stiffer barrel, and much improved sights.
Both of mine have been completely reliable. Try a few decent loads to see what works best, as an example even scoped the best I could get out of the A model was 2.25-2.5" (5 shot groups at 100). Until I tried the Black Hills 52 gr. Moly reloads, instantly cut an inch off the average group size.
For Califoria I would definately go with the CA model, slightly shorter but stiffer barrel, and much improved sights.
rangerruck
Member
yeah, avoid the a model , like the plague. I like the kel tec, and the saiga, I have both of them. It seems to me though, in cali, it is illegal to have anything that even resembles an ak, but I could be wrong. the saiga does resemble an ak, but does not have ak furniture, or pistol grip, so it may be acceptable to the Western storm troopers.
crazed_ss
Member
I'd been seeing a lot of people have trouble with them on calguns.. lots of reliability issues.
If I had to have a semi-auto .223 right now, I guess I'd have to go with a Mini-14.
I'm waiting for the Beretta RX-4 right now though.
About the Saiga, the Saiga made by Kalashnikov USA is listed on the Kasler list.. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf
Saigas from RAAC or EAC arent listed. http://www.raacfirearms.com/ Theoretically, they are legal. There are a couple dealers who will transfer them. It's iffy like the Off-List lower situation though. If you're gonna get a Saiga, you could be setting yourself up for some legal trouble if you get caught by a LEO who doesnt understand the law or prosecuted by an overzealous DA.
There is a gun shop in Orange County that is apparently selling Saigas.. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56485&highlight=saiga
If I had to have a semi-auto .223 right now, I guess I'd have to go with a Mini-14.
I'm waiting for the Beretta RX-4 right now though.
About the Saiga, the Saiga made by Kalashnikov USA is listed on the Kasler list.. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf
Saigas from RAAC or EAC arent listed. http://www.raacfirearms.com/ Theoretically, they are legal. There are a couple dealers who will transfer them. It's iffy like the Off-List lower situation though. If you're gonna get a Saiga, you could be setting yourself up for some legal trouble if you get caught by a LEO who doesnt understand the law or prosecuted by an overzealous DA.
There is a gun shop in Orange County that is apparently selling Saigas.. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56485&highlight=saiga
This was true a few years ago, but recently it has been determined that Saigas that have been imported by EAA or RAA are legal to own in California.
As for the SU-16A. I like mine, but it is far from perfect. I got mine before the CA was out and would much rather have the CA than the A, if anything for the better iron sights. There are a few reports on Calguns about SU-16s that have had catastrophic malfunctions, but there have not been enough to have me concerned.
Right there with you about the CA restricions thing, here is a range report I did on my SU-16, it's from last year, but the data is still good.
Disregard the last Saturday Part.
____________________________________________________
Went shooting last Saturday and tried my new SU-16B, it’s brand new out of the box and until Saturday it had not been shot. I took along a variety of ammo to see how it liked different loads. Everything was factory, no reloads (yet).
First the Federal XM193, it loved that, the only issue I had was that twice while shooting it the bolt stayed open as if the magazine were empty. I simply pulled the bolt handle to rear and let it go. I should mention that the magazines being used were the two 10rd mags that came with it and I used 3 30rd Thermold mags. All of the magazines were brand new. The issue with the bolt staying to rear was with only one of the Thermolds. So I think there is some breaking in going on here. The muzzle flash with XM193 was SIGNIFICANT; this was the middle of a bright hot day without a cloud in the sky. You could see the fireball quite well. We were just using the irons sights that came with it and getting 2-3 inch groups at 50yds. This is shooting off a table with not rests, just arm support.
Other ammo used was the South African PMP commercial stuff, it all worked very well with only one FTF (dud) I tried that one round a few times and it would not go off. Cycling no problem and surprisingly no flash at all.
Chinese Norinco no problems at all, this is older ammo I had laying around and it worked without issue. Accuracy for the South African and Norinco did change average group size opened up about 1’” from the XM193 but for iron sights it wasn’t bad.
Here is the bad news; I had some of the Russian made steel cased ammo. This is NOT Wolf but it had the lacquer on cases. Out of 20 rds 2 got stuck in the chamber and I had to pop them out with a rod. One was stuck and I mean STUCK it did not want to come out. But it eventually came out, no lacquered steel cases for this gun.
The next problem child was some British Radway Green SS109. I shot two rounds and both got stuck and had to be popped out with a rod. I did not shoot any more. No accuracy reports for these two.
It seemed to me it really liked the Xm193 or equivalent and if you fed it that it was happy. We tried the folding bipod and it worked OK, but it was some what flimsy. After some extended shooting and rapid fire this rifle got HOT, the hand guards got the point where they where to hot to hold. So we let it cool off for awhile. This is not a heavy barrel gun and I believe not designed for heavy volumes of fire.
Keeping it’s limitations in mind, Overall I really like this rifle, keep feeding it what it likes and it will sing, it is very, very light and makes a great choice for kids or smaller adults. Recoil is mild
Don’t plan on hiding your position with the muzzle flash coming out of it, it is definitely a beacon saying “here I am”.
Anyone pondering buying one I highly endorse it. Just fire a variety of ammo through it to see what yours likes or doesn’t like.
Disregard the last Saturday Part.
____________________________________________________
Went shooting last Saturday and tried my new SU-16B, it’s brand new out of the box and until Saturday it had not been shot. I took along a variety of ammo to see how it liked different loads. Everything was factory, no reloads (yet).
First the Federal XM193, it loved that, the only issue I had was that twice while shooting it the bolt stayed open as if the magazine were empty. I simply pulled the bolt handle to rear and let it go. I should mention that the magazines being used were the two 10rd mags that came with it and I used 3 30rd Thermold mags. All of the magazines were brand new. The issue with the bolt staying to rear was with only one of the Thermolds. So I think there is some breaking in going on here. The muzzle flash with XM193 was SIGNIFICANT; this was the middle of a bright hot day without a cloud in the sky. You could see the fireball quite well. We were just using the irons sights that came with it and getting 2-3 inch groups at 50yds. This is shooting off a table with not rests, just arm support.
Other ammo used was the South African PMP commercial stuff, it all worked very well with only one FTF (dud) I tried that one round a few times and it would not go off. Cycling no problem and surprisingly no flash at all.
Chinese Norinco no problems at all, this is older ammo I had laying around and it worked without issue. Accuracy for the South African and Norinco did change average group size opened up about 1’” from the XM193 but for iron sights it wasn’t bad.
Here is the bad news; I had some of the Russian made steel cased ammo. This is NOT Wolf but it had the lacquer on cases. Out of 20 rds 2 got stuck in the chamber and I had to pop them out with a rod. One was stuck and I mean STUCK it did not want to come out. But it eventually came out, no lacquered steel cases for this gun.
The next problem child was some British Radway Green SS109. I shot two rounds and both got stuck and had to be popped out with a rod. I did not shoot any more. No accuracy reports for these two.
It seemed to me it really liked the Xm193 or equivalent and if you fed it that it was happy. We tried the folding bipod and it worked OK, but it was some what flimsy. After some extended shooting and rapid fire this rifle got HOT, the hand guards got the point where they where to hot to hold. So we let it cool off for awhile. This is not a heavy barrel gun and I believe not designed for heavy volumes of fire.
Keeping it’s limitations in mind, Overall I really like this rifle, keep feeding it what it likes and it will sing, it is very, very light and makes a great choice for kids or smaller adults. Recoil is mild
Don’t plan on hiding your position with the muzzle flash coming out of it, it is definitely a beacon saying “here I am”.
Anyone pondering buying one I highly endorse it. Just fire a variety of ammo through it to see what yours likes or doesn’t like.
ec-10
Member
SU-16A here. After about 500 rounds it has developed a major FTE/FTF issue. It is basically non-functional at this point. Kel-Tec is sending a new extractor to see if that is the cause. The one in the gun looks fine. Once I get it running it will be going to the gun show (along with my Walther G22 :banghead: ).
http://www.lanworldinc.com
Russian-made .223 Saiga for half the price.
Something to consider, unless you need a folding stock so badly that you are willing to buy a plastic gun so you can get it.
Russian-made .223 Saiga for half the price.
Something to consider, unless you need a folding stock so badly that you are willing to buy a plastic gun so you can get it.
Wrong.
Kalashnikov USA Saigas are on the list.
RAA Saigas are not. The website above will ship them here, and he has a list of FFL's who will transfer them to you. If they were illegal, there'd be a whole lot of people in trouble already.
I believe Kalashnikov USA Saigas are converted to AK configuration. Or were. I don't think that such a company exists, though a similar-named company does.
Kasler vs. Lockyer, my friend.
http://www.lanworldinc.com sells them to CA buyers for around $260 plus the usual expenses.
I think the Kel-Tec is a neat package. But for the price, I want something more sturdy. My Mini-14 does MOCokeCan at 100 yards, as well, and it's metal. I like metal. But I'd look at a Saiga, now that they're available here! Two of them, plus accessories, for the price of a Mini-14 or Kel-Tec.
Kalashnikov USA Saigas are on the list.
RAA Saigas are not. The website above will ship them here, and he has a list of FFL's who will transfer them to you. If they were illegal, there'd be a whole lot of people in trouble already.
I believe Kalashnikov USA Saigas are converted to AK configuration. Or were. I don't think that such a company exists, though a similar-named company does.
Kasler vs. Lockyer, my friend.
http://www.lanworldinc.com sells them to CA buyers for around $260 plus the usual expenses.
I think the Kel-Tec is a neat package. But for the price, I want something more sturdy. My Mini-14 does MOCokeCan at 100 yards, as well, and it's metal. I like metal. But I'd look at a Saiga, now that they're available here! Two of them, plus accessories, for the price of a Mini-14 or Kel-Tec.
The only time I've ever seen one was in the hands of a guy at the range that was having major problems with it. He was having some kind of deal with the firing pin where it wouldn't strike unless he did something just so with the bolt handle. That doesn't necessarily reflect on the model as a whole, but it certainly turned me off to them.
MISFIRE
Member
Su 16
Anteater, I also live in Ca. and I have a couple of friends who have a su16 and a Mini 14. The Su16 is a toy, the Mini 14 is a rifle. You could also join the OLL AR15 crowd.
Bill
Anteater, I also live in Ca. and I have a couple of friends who have a su16 and a Mini 14. The Su16 is a toy, the Mini 14 is a rifle. You could also join the OLL AR15 crowd.
Bill
I have one of the first 400 A models. In between problems..it shoots great and is very accurate. Unfortunately I keep having problems. Broken firing pin and then mostly failure to feed/eject. Just when I think I have the right magazine or ejector or ammo and things are OK...starts all over again. My Mini-14 (newer 580 series)..not one single problem. Saiga 7.62X29 (16 inch barrel)..not one single problem. This is, however, my only direct experience with the SU-16A..haven't seen anyone else at the range with one. I like the overall concept and would like it to work..and I really think Kel-Tec would like it to as well..but my individual rifle does not.
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