Washington Post: VCDL are trigger-happy scofflaws?

Status
Not open for further replies.

illspirit

Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
289
Location
Virginia
Link.
anonymous WaPo writer said:
THE VIRGINIA Citizens Defense League, a trigger-happy group that regards the National Rifle Association as slightly spineless on gun rights, will hold a raffle tonight in a Fairfax County government building. The door prizes include a hunting rifle, a semiautomatic handgun and ammunition -- more than $2,000 in merchandise in all. The league's goal is to assist Virginia firearms dealers alleged to have skirted the state's already lax laws on gun purchases. So, a month after a deranged gunman killed 32 people at Virginia Tech, a Virginia group is coddling scofflaw gun dealers in the same state.

This sorry story originated with a reasonable attempt by New York City authorities to take action against several dozen gun stores, in Virginia and elsewhere, that sold firearms later used in the commission of felonies in the Big Apple. The city sent pairs of private detectives to six of the stores to make "straw" purchases, in which one selected and paid for a weapon, and the other filled out the paperwork, thereby disguising the true owner's identity. The gun-loving Defense League decided that the gun stores were victims -- not the New Yorkers shot, pistol-whipped or mugged in New York -- and cooked up the idea of the raffle. (The drawing was originally scheduled for April 19, three days after the Virginia Tech killings; it was postponed because the group knew it would be inflammatory.)

Fairfax County's top prosecutor, Robert F. Horan Jr., slapped down the group's original game plan, which was to limit the drawing to those who had bought at least $100 worth of merchandise at one of the two gun stores caught in the sting. In tonight's drawing, tickets will be available to all comers. Still, the group has already achieved its purpose, which was to help to pay the legal fees of the gun shops, which are being sued in federal court by New York. In recent weeks, more than 2,500 people cleared the $100 threshold at the two shops, Bob Moates Sport Shop in Richmond and Old Dominion Gun and Tackle in Danville.

The drawing is to be held in the Mason District Government Center in Annandale, which includes a county police station -- the same sort of station as the one at which two county officers were shot by a gunman a year ago. Fairfax County pushed legislation in Richmond this year that would have banned the carrying of handguns at such facilities by nonauthorized individuals. The bill sailed through the state Senate but died in the House -- killed, it seems, by the gun lobby and groups such as the Citizens Defense League.

Same old garbage for the most part, but I think I figured out a potential hole in Bloomberg's scheme which nobody else has thought of. Or if they have, it slipped past me.

My reply in the comments:
me said:
With all this talk of guns used in felonies in NYC, has anyone actually seen the trace data Mr. Bloomberg is referring to? Oh, of course not, as he's even withheld it from Federal BATFE agents. Here's a little factoid about "crime guns" the good Mayor would like to obfuscate, and that the Washington Post apparently doesn't care to ask about:

Should a Virginia resident decide to go on a hunting trip or what have you in some North East State, and pass through the city of New York with an otherwise legal firearm, he/she becomes an instant felon. Even if the gun is locked up, unloaded, and in the trunk or checked airline luggage during transit (both protected by Federal "peaceable journey" law), NYC will nail you if you so much as stop for gas or your flight is delayed. This can and does result in multiple charges per offense, ranging from illegal possession of an unregistered firearm, illegal concealed carry, and sometimes a separate charge for each cartridge of ammunition, depending on the type. If you get pulled over while driving and the gun is found, you can also end up with each passenger in your car charged with felonies. So, in theory, one gun purchased from a shop in Virginia could be "used" in a dozen such "crimes" as your spouse and kids are carted off to Rikers Island because you wanted to go hunting while visiting aunt Jane up in Vermont.

I've read about quite a few of such cases, and for all we know, any number of the so-called "crime guns" Mr. Bloomberg shrieks about sneaking into "his" city could be the same. 'Tis of course possible that none of them are as well. However, until the Mayor quits obstructing Federal investigators and produces actual evidence, the term "innocent until proven guilty" immediately springs to mind..

Or is violating the right to a fair trial, the right to view the evidence, and freedom from unlawful search and seizure only bad when Bush does it to First Amendment supporters and suspected terrorists?

Is this a reasonable argument? Or is my tinfoil hat just on too tight?
 
I'd just stop reading the Washington Post if I were you. They will never change, so no need to debate them.
 
This sorry story originated with a reasonable attempt by New York City authorities to take action against several dozen gun stores, in Virginia and elsewhere, that sold firearms later used in the commission of felonies in the Big Apple.

Obviously, the author of this piece advocates the ends justify the means. You should be able to break Federal and state laws if you're a publicly elected official and believe what your doing is right?

Watergate anyone?
 
Geister is right they won't change but take it a step further if you have the time and inclination. Since you seem to be relatively close to the area if there are any businesses in your area that advertise in your area write them a short note telling them you'll not do business with them so long as they advertise in that rag. Unless it was printed in the editorial section the author does not seem to understand the difference between reporting the news and editorializing. Most "reporters" today don't seem to know about news writing what I learned in High School and editors premit the publishing of crap like this with blantant editorializing. There is a story here but there are 2 sides to it - there is a name for the reporting style experssed here and it is "yellow journalisim". If you want to hurt these people hit em in the wallet. It probably won't do much good to wite the advertisers but despite what the elitists try to get you to think YOU are important and your actions plus your spending make a difference.
 
Can anyone explain exactly what the NYC agents did? Did the dealers do anything illegal, ie KNOWINGLY sell firearms to straw purchaser? Did the two guys walk in together, act like they knew each other, then one asked questions and the other filled out the paperwork? Did they actually tell the dealer what they were doing? If so, then the dealer(s) broke the law.

But I don't think that is what happened because I don't see law suits going anywhere against the dealers. And you don't see Bloomberg coming out clearly saying that the dealers did this.

My guess is that the media is willingly going along with Bloomberg's BS high-publicity stunt. They are pretending that the gun dealers are guilty of knowingly doing straw purchases. My guess is that it was not made clear during the purchase that that was what was happening.

I think also that the dealers are just being attacked yet again for crimes committed with weapons bought at their store months or years later, for which of course the dealer is blameless. Correct me if I am wrong on any of this.
__________________
 
I really loathe how the mainstream press lumps all gun owners into one group -- the law-abiding (almost all of us), and the psychos who kill people.

40-50,000 auto deaths occur yearly. Many of those involve crazy, irresponsible lawbreakers. Yet Washington Post writers still drive cars.

Why?
 
The problem with the Bloomberg investigations is simple - if the purchases legally constituted actual straw purchases then those making them are inline for federal prosicution as making a straw purchase is unlawful reguardless of what the dealer does and so is perjury - making a false statement on the BTAFE form question one. If the dealer acted unlawfully so did the other participants. Another legal problem for Bloomberg should be in regards to soliciting some one to comit a crime in order to bring suit against them (there by profiting) for that act - is that unlawful??
 
For Partisan Ranger: Bloombergs guys conspired to make straw purchases, a crime. They had no legal standing in Virginia. I understand some dealers figured it out, others didn't.
 
Just for comparison's sake

Just a "slightly" different tone don't ya think.

ABC News 7 Article

Gun Giveaway Thumbs Nose at NYC Mayor
ANNANDALE, Va. - Friday May 18, 2007 11:03 am

Openly armed firearms enthusiasts packed a normally sedate government building, hoping to win a pistol or rifle and at the same time send a defiant message to gun-control advocates, especially New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. The Virginia Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights group, organized the "Bloomberg Gun Giveaway" in large part to thumb its nose at Bloomberg, who accuses some shops of allowing illegal purchases of firearms that later were used in crimes in his city.

The city has filed federal lawsuits against more than two dozen shops, including six in Virginia.

Two guns were awarded Thursday, a Para-Ordnance pistol and a Varmint Stalker rifle, each worth about $900. The winners did not immediately receive the weapons - they will still be required to undergo federal and state background checks.

The first winner, Jay Minsky, responded with an obscene hand gesture when asked what message he hoped to send to Bloomberg.

"If he doesn't like people in New York having guns, he should deal with New York," said Minsky, who grew up in Brooklyn. "Just keep out of Virginia."

The event drew an overflow crowd at a Fairfax County government building, with the fire marshal aggressively enforcing an occupancy limit of 150 for the meeting hall. Others stood outside and peered through open windows. About 200 people showed.

County officials opposed the drawing but concluded they could not prohibit a group from using the community meeting room because of its political views. The gun-rights group has met in the building for years.

The event drew protests from gun-control advocates and the parents of those killed in last month's shootings at Virginia Tech.

Peter and Cathy Read, whose daughter Mary was one of those killed, held a photo of their daughter outside the building.

"We're not here to have a debate. We're here to witness for our daughter," Peter Read said. "The victims need to be witnessed to. People of the commonwealth can make intelligent decisions about what's right."

Philip Van Cleave, the league's president, said he sympathizes with the families but maintained that some of the deaths might have been prevented if somebody had been armed.

Many in attendance said they were motivated not by the chance of a free gun, but to make a point to Bloomberg and express support for the Second Amendment.

"It'd be nice if I win, but that's not what this is about. It's about my constitutional right to defend myself," said Ron Stuebing, a league member.

The event had been planned for months as a fundraiser for two gun shops being sued by New York City. But officials said that giveaway violated state gambling laws, so the league quickly organized a new giveaway, open to anybody who showed up at its Thursday night meeting.

Most but not all in attendance carried holstered handguns. In Virginia, individuals need a permit only to carry a concealed weapon. Openly visible, holstered guns are permitted without a permit.

Anybody who showed up at Thursday's event was eligible for the drawing - except Bloomberg and his immediate family.

Asked Thursday about the giveaway, Bloomberg said, "I think it's sick, is the nicest ways to phrase it."

Van Cleave responded that the members of his organization are law-abiding citizens, including many retired military, police officers and firefighters.

"If you're saying these are sick people, then I'm proud to be sick," Van Cleave said.

---

Associated Press writer Sara Kugler in New York contributed to this report.
 
What's sick is trying to entrap gun dealers into selling guns to straw purchasers using shady tactics, such as private investigators posing as a husband and a wife.
 
Since so much of the gun crime in NYC is resulting from illegal drugs and poverty, why doesn't he just stay home and do the freakn' job he was hired to do.

His actions are clearly part of an ongoing criminal conspiracy, and he should be prosecuted.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top