Punisher Decal gets me PUNISHED!!!

Do you know what the definition of stereotype is? An assumption based on FALSE information. Meaning that right off the bat it is wrong.

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But the assumption that someone could a gang member if he fits the profile of one, in the area where they're known to operate is NOT false information.

Gang colors, insignia, hats, etc. are all derived from everyday items. The Crips don't have a copyright on the color blue, and some regular (if a overly trendy) people really do wear pro ball team hats backwards.

It's unfortunate that this happened. And after it becomes clear that someone isn't a gang member, the whole vibe should have changed, and really fast! It's good he got some satisfaction.

However, much as I think our local LEO's are being sent out to do the wrong things sometimes, my taxes PAY them to harrass gang members. I WANT them to harrass gang members. I WANT them to prevent drive-by shootings and keep the scum out of my neighborhood. That's their job, and I'm glad they do it.

steelhead said:

6. What do you want? The officer fired or humilated? A guest spot on Oprah or Dr. Phil?

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They're getting away with harassing a citizen. What would I want in those circumstances? Officer #1's head on a spike. Red, dripping, bloody, raw, vengeance. I'd settle for having him fired, and blackballed from working law enforcement in that state.

[EDIT] The above is predicated on a situation where the officer didn't pull his head back out of his @$$ and make amends. Since the cop in this case did, we can switch off the Venge-o-Matic.

Go ahead and write a letter of complaint regarding th initial officer. But definitely write a letter of praise for the Sergeant. He was the one who acted professionally and courteously towards you, and by your own admission, apologized profusely for the behavior of his subordinate. Give credit where credit is due, and criticism where it is due.

Give credit where credit is due, and criticism where it is due.

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Agreed.

There's no reason the first cop could have, after it was clear you weren't a gang member, laughed, apologized, and explained the situation. You would have laughed together, most likely.

The problem was really what he did AFTER he knew he wasn't dealing with an armed street gang member, not before.

What ever happened to "Protect and Serve" ???????

This is off topic, but I think the sequel to the movie The Punisher is coming out soon.

And ArmedBear: I agree that cops should go out of their way to make life hard for criminals, but the problem pops up when cops think that people in the wrong place at the wrong time wearing the wrong shirt are criminals and treat them as such.

if one gang is identified with that decal it might be a good idea to remove it

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Really good point. I hear that the local Crips affiliate does not keep complaint letters on file.

And ArmedBear: I agree that cops should go out of their way to make life hard for criminals, but the problem pops up when cops think that people in the wrong place at the wrong time wearing the wrong shirt are criminals and treat them as such.

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If gang members are generally identified by their location, clothing and insignias, and the times they lurk in certain places, then I can write this off as an unfortunate coincidence. The cop was way out of line when he mistreated someone innocent, once the facts were known. But he wasn't out of line to suspect that someone who seemed like a gang member based on the clues you might expect to find, might actually be one.

And like I posted before, I'd lose the sticker!

If it's a cue to both the cops and gang members, you just don't want to be caught in the middle of anything for the sake of a sticker.

I'd love to put an NRA Life Member sticker, a JPFO sticker, etc. on my bumper or window, to piss off the hippies and PC college professors around here. But I sometimes have guns in my car. My wife's car has been broken into; we think it's because of some stickers she got from Oleg, since they took nothing, the car is nondescript and there's seldom anything of value in it. There were no guns in the car at the time, fortunately.

Freedom of expression is a great thing. So is being smart.

An unpleasant experience, yessiree, Bob! Nobody likes to be treated as a criminal when going about their legal business.

I am glad the LEO manned up and did the right thing in the end. Hopefully, he'll be better at his job, now.

Resolved?

I'm so disappointed.

You resolved this amicably??

What were you thinking?

You have deprived us of a passionate cop bashing thread!



Seriously, though, dude, take a little time and write a letter.

Commend the sergeant. Commend the original officer.

Find a way to word it that nobody gets slammed.

Heck, we'll even help you with the wording if you like.

Life presents us with precious few opportunities to tell someone they've done a good job. One of these days one of these men may find their career hanging on what's in their folder.

Make sure there's at least one bright spot in there.

image

i made a concious choice to change mine when i was in my late 30's
i scared a lil old lady when i went to offer to carry her luggage at our rural train station. at first i was angry that she reacted like. then i went home looked in the mirror. lets see long hair to waist ala jimmypage in 70's check
blavk leather jacket check mutiple dangly earings bouncing off shoulder check long praticed bad boy image check. how dare she look at this sweet heart of a guy and not see past the uniform i chose to wear!. i made some changes now my clients can't believe that i was what i used to be. funny that. funnier still that cops were ussually the first to see through the uniform back then. more practice than most folks i guess

For those who advocate removing the decal what if it was a relgious symbol?

The Gangster Disciples (GD's), part of the Folk Nation gangs, in Chicago and surrounding areas use a Six Ponted Star as a symbol. This is also a symbol of Judaism. They also use a 3 pointed fork. The symbol for Indiana University, which has a lot of students from Chicagoland. The same gang was also using Black and Red as well as black and gold for their colors at one point.

This caused their rival gangs, who fell under the People Nation, gangs like the Two-Six gangsters and other smaller gangs in Chicago , to wear Red and Black. Bull's logos were often worn upside down as it looked similar to a fork (the horns and head being the fork) along with Blackhawk logos. If you look at the following picture I circled the gang sign in it (I know its poorly done but look closely). Notice that the Fork is upside down.



The 2-6 street gang was using Playboy bunnies at one point as their hand sign looked like a bunny rabbit. Not as important to many but it is still a cultural icon for many people, including a lot of young people.

The fact that the Chicago Bulls and Chicago Blackhawks logos were gang symbols in Chicago makes it hard to wear any clothing that supports your hometown team.

So I would not advise not wearing gang symbols. Many people did not know that these were gang symbols.

Both gangs have changed their colors but their symbols are still very much the same but they are not as predominant as other symbols within the gangs. But in the 1990's it was hard to tell young peoplethat they should not wear Chicago Bulls apparel in Chicago. It got even harder to tell them that when the Bull's started on an amazing winning streak and the greatest basketball player ever to walk on a court, Michael Jordan, played for the Chicago Bulls.

To the OP, your thread was in no way "cop bashing". You had an unfortunate experience at the hands of an abusive officer who later rectified the situation via a personal apology. IMO, he dodged a bullet there. I would most certainly have put a letter into his permanent file via whatever means necessary had he not apologized.

I agree with others in that the Sergeant acted appropriately, and had you needed to write a letter of grievance against the officer, I would have included a letter of commendation for the Sergeant.

Bad experience, but good outcome. At least the story has a happy ending, and I think the LEO learned his lesson.

To those who said remove the sticker b/c it might get you pulled over, I disagree. However, I might remove it so a rival gang member didn't mistake me for someone else and want to kill me. That said, if the sticker had the personal importance to me that this one does to you, I'd leave it on.

If the "bad cop" was correct about the sticker being a gang symbol, what you should have learned is that there is the possiblity of a rival gang making the same assumption as the cop.

And they might not be interested in a stop so much as in a shot--or several...

Art

I'd be tempted to remove the sticker.

I'd not do this for any other reason than I am not a fan of being on the wrong end of a drive-by. When a symbol gets co-oped by any organization, those that have it honestly automatically become associated with it. If the cops are better than this type of assumption (especially after this incident), other people in your neighborhood are most likely not. Rival gangs are most certainly not.

Symbols have been co-oped and perverted before in our history. The swastika is a perfect example. In my family, I have a quilt made by my great-grandmother that has a large swastika-like design on it. I can't hang that in my house although I'd like to. Never mind that the quilt itself pre-dates Nazi-ism by many years. And never mind that the quilt has nothing to do with that movement. I have no doubt what vistors would think. So it remains preserved in a professional packing in a chest.


Here's what I am talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The swastika (from Sanskrit svástika स्वास्तिक ) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles, in either right-facing (卐) or left-facing (卍) forms. The term is derived from Sanskrit svasti, meaning well-being. The Thai greeting sawasdee is from the same root, carrying the same implication.

It is a widely-used symbol in Dharmic religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism). Hindus often decorate the swastika with a dot in each quadrant. In India, it is common enough to be a part of several Devanagari fonts. It is also a symbol in the modern unicode. It is often imprinted on religious texts, marriage invitations, decorations etc. It is used to mark religious flags in Jainism and to mark Buddhist temples in Asia.

Archaeological evidence of swastika shaped ornaments goes back to the Neolithic period. In 1920 the swastika was appropriated as a Nazi symbol, and has since then become a controversial motif as a consequence. In the Western world, it is this usage as a symbol of Nazism that is most familiar, and this political association has largely eclipsed its historical status in the East.

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In your area, it may not be much different to have a Punisher symbol. It isn't right, but that's the nature of the beast.


-- John

Never mind. Dead horse material.

Glad to hear he made it right, not many people would humble and extend themselves like that.

Here's what I am talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

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Oh, CRAP!

Gotta go get those swastikas off my car windows. I wondered why so many people flipped me off.

I always thought they just hated Hindus.

Profiling.

ArmedBear wrote:

Oh, CRAP!

Gotta go get those swastikas off my car windows. I wondered why so many people flipped me off.

I always thought they just hated Hindus.

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hehe... you sure it isn't because you've been riding with your left turn signal on for the last 12 miles?


-- John

I hate California Nazis...who ride with their LH turn signal on for 12 miles.

I'm sorry if I missed it - was the offending officer young or more of a veteran?

I'm glad to hear that the matter was amicably resolved.


BB62