legal issues with home gunsmithing

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
1,088
Location
Northeast PA
Hello,

In the autoloaders forum I asked about what i should do for a 1911. As this would likely be a carry gun I was thinking the only way to get exactly what I want would be to do it myself, or pay a heap of money.

However I was thinking, if i ever needed to use the firearm for defense, would I legally be looking at a real bad thing using a gun that i did work on myself (I feel i am qualified to work on a 1911, just not certified).

In other words would I been in for a world of problems having made a "super tricked out death pistol", or is this mostly a non issue as long as you don't take off safety features?

Any input would be greatly appreciated, as this thought bothers me more then a little... I love working on 1911's, but i don't want to do it if i could someday get in trouble for it.
 
I don't honestly know about possible ramifications, and I don't honestly care. I work on my own and set them up exactly the way they work best for me. As far as I am concerned if I need a firearm I need one that works for me, and a 'good shoot' is a good shoot regardless of equipment used. What gun I used is going to be the least of my worries at that point.

I don't see the difference in doing the work myself or paying someone to do it either, I still directed the modifications and effected them either with my hands or my checkbook.
 
As long as the modifications don't show what might be called "a reckless disregard for safety", I see no problem. In a criminal case, something like gun modification would probably make no difference at all; you were legally justified in using deadly force or you weren't.

But today, acquital or nol pros on criminal charges is often followed by a civil suit, where the rules are less stringent and a plaintiff's attorney may well question your character, your ancestry and your gun work.

I would not do a "super light" trigger, remove safeties, or take the gun far from factory. Nor would I use handloads ("murderous home made dum-dum bullets loaded in a secret dark basement") in a defense gun. Anything that can be made to look like a shooter "intended" to kill should be avoided.

Another factor is that very valuable guns should not be carried for self-defense. If you are involved in a shooting, you may have to drop the gun on concrete, and you can bet that it will be confiscated by the police who are not noted for TLC of seized weapons.

Jim
 
thanks for the responses so far, it is a bit of a weight off my mind.

I suppose the ILS of a Springfield would be a safety, and therefore shouldn't be removed... Anyway, I would want to change all the mim stuff to real steel. I actually would prefer to find a hammer that has longer hooks on it, but they seem to be hard to find anymore.

Thanks again.
 
I recall the "gunsmith" who did trigger jobs on 1911 type pistols. When the trigger pull got too light, and the hammer falling to half cock "ruined" his nicely honed sear, he simply ground off the half cock notch. After one of his guns went full auto on the range, he was "persuaded" to find another line of work.

That is the kind of thing I meant by "reckless disregard" for safety, caused by part by stupidity and ignorance. I doubt that replacing parts would cause a problem or even be noticed, but there are some gun people who work for the enemy, so no one can say what might become an issue.

Jim
 
There has been a story circulating around Arizona for a couple of years now about a couple of guys who went to prison after shooting a couple of perps in a home invasion. The reason they were convicted was apparently that the DA was able to convince the jury that they were bad guys because the they had modified their guns (target tuned 1911's, sights, ports, comps, etc.) and that the ammo they used was reloads. Apparently the idea the DA got across was that reloaded ammo was more deadly than factory ammo.

I'll be the first one to tell you that I have never been able to confirm any of this, but I have been told by several sources here, including several CCW instructors that reloads are a bad thing if you have to go to court against a hostile prosecutor, but except for this story, have never heard anything one way or the other about "mods" on a gun.
 
I would tend to agree with anyone that using reloads is not be a good idea...

However, the people in that story seem to had a lot of modifications down to their firearms, indicating that those mods were meaningless to the DA.

I would hate to think i could change out an extractor and get thrown in the clinker for my efforts.:rolleyes:
 
Gunsmithing

Working on your own gun is legal, and as long as you don't make an illegal modification to it...such as a full-auto conversion or a non-registered suppressor...you can pretty much do anything to it that you like.

On the criminal/civil suit question...

In theory, if a shoot is clean, it's clean...and shouldn't matter whether or not all the safeties were alive and well, or the trigger breaks at 3 ounces...or even if the ammo was handloaded. BUT...As the late, great and wise Yogi Berra noted: "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice...they ain't."

So, in order to prevent becoming a precedent by handing a prosecutor or civil litigator any more ammunition to fire at me...my carry guns are Simon Pure. One of them is a 1943 GI Colt, that...save for the new barrel some time back...is pure stock, right down to the issue sights and the 6-pound trigger. Another one is a stock '44 Remington Rand. Thirty or forty years ago, it probably wouldn't have made any difference. Fifty years ago, and it definitely wouldn't have...but things have changed. "Reckless Disregard" can be construed in many ways, by many small, seemingly unimportant things.

Shoot someone...by accident or on purpose...with a gun that you've willfully and purposely disabled a safety on...and if the opposition discovers it, you can pretty much count on it becoming an issue. Whether or not it will be enough of an issue to land you in jail or have you handing over all that you own and 3/4ths of what you earn for the rest of your life will require you to ask yourself a deep question as to whether it's worth the difference between a stock 5-pound trigger and a fine-tuned, 3-pound/glass rod trigger. If the gun is stock, there's really not much that can be made of that issue. If it's been modified...it may become a distinct liability.
 
"You carry one of those deadly Army semi-automatic assault pistols that were made only for killing people? In a decent society, they would be illegal, not on the streets being used by murderous mad-dog killers to slaughter innocent people. And you use that murderous cop killer full metal jacket ammo that was made for the military, and should never have been available to civilians. It is even illegal for hunting, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, proving that it is too cruel and death dealing to be allowed for any reasonable sporting purpose."

See how it can work? With the right spin, Hitler can be a hero and FDR an insane thug.

Jim
 
And you use that murderous cop killer full metal jacket ammo that was made for the military, and should never have been available to civilians. See how it can work? With the right spin, Hitler can be a hero and FDR an insane thug.

Yep. Those ol' spin doctors are good at what they do.

Hmmm. Ya think that it might seem kinder and gentler if I used...soft-point... bullets? :D
 
Well, NJ already banned soft point for carry because they expand and are cruel. Next they will ban FMJ because it over-penetrates. That way they can say they aren't banning guns - you can have all the guns you want, just no ammo.

Jim
 
That's why we gotta get our own spin docs, Jim. Coin a few phrases for us, like:

"Softer Point bullets...for when you don't want to hurt'em so much."

Or:

Full Metal Jacket...so it won't be as hard for the forensic examiners to get a ballistic trace off the bullets."

Spin! Spin! It's the name of the game. Whoever spins...wins!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top