1911, 100 rounds, and trigger creep

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carnaby

carnaby

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I know the trigger creep on a 1911 has been done a lot, but I've run into something sorta new. I re-triggered my TRP a while back with Ed Brown parts and a lot of help from the fine folks in the gunsmithing forum here at THR. The trigger went from great to great and was a good learning experience.

The problem I'm having now is that when I get home from shooting at the range, the trigger has a TON of creep, where it had virtually none when the gun was clean. I can hold the pistol, take up all the slack, then pull a smidge more and there's a VISIBLE movement of the trigger, but the hammer doesn't fall. Then a little more pull on the trigger and it breaks cleanly from there.

Is there anything I can do to eliminate this after shooting creep? I'm assuming it is from buildup of powder residue on the sear/hammer/trigger/disconnector setup, but I don't know where the most likely culprit is, nor how to prevent this as much as possible.

Any ideas?:confused:
 
HI. There are two areas I can think of most likely to cause this.



First, is the disconnector. Kuhnhausen's manual, vol II, shows how to shape the top of the disconnector (frame end) to help eliminate that little bit of creep. This basically is putting a small 15 degree flat on the disconnenctor head which faces the front of the pistol when assembled. You'll need to round off, ever so slightly, the corners on each side of the peak of the disconnector head, just enough to get the sharp corner off.

While you are down there, did you polish the back of the trigger bow and the disconnector flat which interfaces with it?

The second area would be the sear/hammer hook engagement surfaces. If the hook surfaces are uneven, not square or not stoned all the way to the intersecting corner, or the sear doesn't have enough relief angle, this could cause the problem also. You'll also need to make sure your engagement angles and depth of engagement is correct.

And as always, use a proper check at the bench and range to verify your work.
 
Creepy

Before you file, stone, sand, or polish anything...detail-strip the gun and clean it thoroughly. Use a good light oil on all the related parts, and try it again. While you have it down, inspect everything carefully for and signs of damage or defect.
 
I'd be pleased as could be. I LIKE a trigger with some movement before sear release so I abolutely without a doubt KNOW when it is going to fire. Both shooting at high speed and punching tight groups I have better results with a creepy trigger. The bad part is so few hammers have deep enough hooks now that getting some creep into my guns is a pain.

I understand that not everyone likes creep though.

Before you tear it down, put an indicator on the hammer and see if or how much hammer movement you have and in what direction it moves before release. I would guess that it is lowering a couple thousandths from your description.......
 
Thanks guys, now I have some ideas. This happened the previous time I took it shooting, and after a full strip, clean and lube, it came back to normal. So whatever is happening is due to firing.

I'll strip it again and have a look for problem areas.

What I really want is a trigger that is consistent before and after 100 rounds.
 
Also, HSMITH, I know what you are saying, but this isn't good creep. This is creep that actually increases the trigger pull. You pull slightly, the trigger moves and then stops if you're pulling light enough. This is no good and feels terrible.

I took the slide off and watched the disconnecter while I pulled the trigger. With the slide off, the creep is a little less noticeable, almost but not completely gone. When the trigger is pulled as before, I can see the top of the disconnecter move toward the front of the frame as the trigger creeps. I need to fully clean, lube and reassemble to see what gives. I'll put the trigger guts back together without the grip safety so I can watch what the lower end of the sear/disconnecter are doing when the trigger is pulled.
 
re:

Carnaby...Two places that are susceptible to carbon fouling are the trigger track and the disconnect...with the first being the more likely place for it to cause a problem in only a hundred rounds.

Does the trigger drop free in and out of the frame...or does it stick slightly?
 
It used to drop in and out more or less free, not entirely in and out, but certainly for more than the travel required to drop the hammer. I checked it now and it's a little gritty. I pulled the trigger out and it had some crud on the bow. I cleaned it up as well as the trigger track and the action is much better. Now to reassemble tonight after cleaning to see if the results are improved.
 
re:

You may want to polish the sides of the trigger bow on a piece of glass with 800-1000 grit paper. Use a stone to break any sharp edges along the corners, and check the track itself with a strong light to see if there are any burrs or deep toolmarks that could hold carbon fouling and/or grit. Sometimes a trigger track stone is needed to clean it up and make it smooth.

If the trigger is a close fit vertically...polish the top and bottom of the fingerpiece a little.

Polish the rear face of the trigger stirrup...where the disconnect rides. Break any sharp edges and corners there, too.
 
Alright, I found the problem. When I originally put the secondary (breakaway) angle on the sear, it seems I fudged the primary. The thing was creepy all along, clean or otherwise. I gently redid the primary and the secondary, checked the fit outside the frame, reassembled, and now the trigger pull is as good as new.

Second, pulling the trigger on a .45 the same way you pull the trigger when shooting a Savage rifle with an accutrigger from the bench (ZERO creep) and then worrying about creep is stupid. I've been mostly shooting rifle lately, and you don't shoot a pistol with a delicate trigger pull like that :D
 
All good advice but you also want to go after the Square Hole in the disconnector with some 600 or 800 Grit Wet Paper until you achieve an nice polish in this area. Creep Hides Here Also.
 
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