FieroCDSP
Member
Cover is first item you look for in any attack with distance. Obviously if you're 3ft from the attacker, you don't have a lot of time to move to cover, but in this case, it was your best move.
I got shot at while walking home
- Thread starter Archibald Tuttle
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Being a hard target to hit is smart. However cover is often over rated. If some thugs want to get you whether it is mistaken identiy, prior problems (maybe you called the police on one's distant cousin) or they just don't like the looks of you and get worked up into deadly frenzies with thier co-thugs trying to impress eachother, cover is not as helpful as people imagine.
Cover is often over rated. Take a these examples from the box o truth:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot3.htm Demonstrates mere pistol rounds, 9mm, .40SW, and .45ACP all going through the driver door of a pretty solid built old buick (much stronger than most curvy modern vehicles with crumple zones and less metal.) Some penetrate all the way through both that door and the passenger door, and most go through that door and get lodged in the passenger door. Needless to say being inside would have been a bad day. Basicly it concludes by showing vehicles provide poor cover, the engine area is probably the only part of the vehicle that might provide some cover, and people in shootouts tend to fixate on the vehicle being used as cover and really open up on it, so it becomes very dangerous very quickly.
Then there is http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot6.htm
It is a cinderblock placed on the same vehicle demonstrating even the 9mm can make quick work of most concrete blocks the type that will be used in construction of urban environments. They stop a round or two, but by that time the block is so smashed up that further rounds make it through even concrete cover. And these are only pistols. Of course most places are not going to be built with concrete and cinderblocks, that would just be one of your best case scenarios to find yourself under fire in a random location.
Lets take a look at a normal wall you might find yourself behind for cover.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm Here you got the original box o truth. 12 sheets of sheetrock, which would be 6 walls, all pistol rounds go through all of them except the .22 (which is a hollowpoint meaning it would deform quicker and penetrate even less.) Basicly the wall of the average home , or even an entire house is not likely to provide you with reliable cover.
There is many further examples you can research as well. The ones I highlighted were merely common pistol rounds, the rifle and shotgun rounds obviously often penetrate far better.
Bottom line is that if a thug is determined to chase you down and shoot you, disappearing without getting shot, or stopping the threat are your only real options. Most random cover you are likely to find yourself around is not going to be cover for more than a couple rounds, and often not even a single round. Standing there of course would be the worst idea, but getting behind cover and standing there is not often that much better. If the thug is in better shape than you, younger or faster and decides to jump out and pursue you on foot, he will probably catch up.
Getting prone makes you a smaller target, which is good, but obviously also makes you a non moving vulnerable target as well. Obviously they were inclined to let you get away this time because they were just playing around being stupid and gambling with your life. If they had been determined to get you however, having a way to defend yourself when cornered may be an option you wish you had.
Cover is often over rated. Take a these examples from the box o truth:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot3.htm Demonstrates mere pistol rounds, 9mm, .40SW, and .45ACP all going through the driver door of a pretty solid built old buick (much stronger than most curvy modern vehicles with crumple zones and less metal.) Some penetrate all the way through both that door and the passenger door, and most go through that door and get lodged in the passenger door. Needless to say being inside would have been a bad day. Basicly it concludes by showing vehicles provide poor cover, the engine area is probably the only part of the vehicle that might provide some cover, and people in shootouts tend to fixate on the vehicle being used as cover and really open up on it, so it becomes very dangerous very quickly.
Then there is http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot6.htm
It is a cinderblock placed on the same vehicle demonstrating even the 9mm can make quick work of most concrete blocks the type that will be used in construction of urban environments. They stop a round or two, but by that time the block is so smashed up that further rounds make it through even concrete cover. And these are only pistols. Of course most places are not going to be built with concrete and cinderblocks, that would just be one of your best case scenarios to find yourself under fire in a random location.
Lets take a look at a normal wall you might find yourself behind for cover.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm Here you got the original box o truth. 12 sheets of sheetrock, which would be 6 walls, all pistol rounds go through all of them except the .22 (which is a hollowpoint meaning it would deform quicker and penetrate even less.) Basicly the wall of the average home , or even an entire house is not likely to provide you with reliable cover.
There is many further examples you can research as well. The ones I highlighted were merely common pistol rounds, the rifle and shotgun rounds obviously often penetrate far better.
Bottom line is that if a thug is determined to chase you down and shoot you, disappearing without getting shot, or stopping the threat are your only real options. Most random cover you are likely to find yourself around is not going to be cover for more than a couple rounds, and often not even a single round. Standing there of course would be the worst idea, but getting behind cover and standing there is not often that much better. If the thug is in better shape than you, younger or faster and decides to jump out and pursue you on foot, he will probably catch up.
Getting prone makes you a smaller target, which is good, but obviously also makes you a non moving vulnerable target as well. Obviously they were inclined to let you get away this time because they were just playing around being stupid and gambling with your life. If they had been determined to get you however, having a way to defend yourself when cornered may be an option you wish you had.
ZeSpectre
Member
Biker... DAMN STRAIGHT ON THAT!
Played more than enough paintball to learn that evasion beats cover 80% of the time ESPECIALLY if there's more than one attacker involved.
FourTeeFive
Member
Seattle in general is a pretty safe area. But random stuff happens everywhere. I travel quite a bit and feel much safer in Seattle than most other cities.
Where did this happen? Cross streets?
Where did this happen? Cross streets?
yhtomit
Member
What FourTeeFive said! Seattle (and to only a slightly lesser degree, Portland) is a real outlier in this regard -- I've never felt so safe in a city so large before. Even though it's not a small place by any means, I never got the feeling of tension and antagonism that seem to pervade most east coast cities, and a large chunk of many others. In a strange way, it felt more like being in a European city than in any other U.S. city -- there's creative tension and youth, but also a sense of munificent calm and optimism.
(When thinking about places to live after law school, Washington is high on the list, if you can't already tell
-- Good gun laws, an appropriate state income tax level, natural beauty to rival that of anywhere in the world.)
timothy
(When thinking about places to live after law school, Washington is high on the list, if you can't already tell
-- Good gun laws, an appropriate state income tax level, natural beauty to rival that of anywhere in the world.)timothy
Snake Eyes
Member
I too would like to know where in Seattle this event occurred, particularly since the OP identified the assailants as "white guys".
So as long as you don't buy anything or own any property, the other taxation is pretty reasonable.
Yeah: None. Washington has no state income tax.
So as long as you don't buy anything or own any property, the other taxation is pretty reasonable.
Cosmoline
Member
You did pretty well. If you have a concealed firearm, it gives you the option to draw and prepare to defend yourself. But getting to C&C first is a good idea. If they drive off that's the end of it either way, but if they get out of the car or come back for a kill..
JAMES77257
Member
CNS shot to the driver.
This is the interweb isn't it?
This is the interweb isn't it?
DomMega
Member
Do you have a police report No? Maybe it would help with more detail if we read that. You don't seem to be fronting much information here. After all, it is a public document. Better yet, if you could be so kind as to scan and post the police report, it would save us all the time and expense of sending off for it. Until I read it, I call prank.
I wouldn't be so quick to call prank due to lack of information. If you've ever been in a situation that summoned your adrenaline you may be talking different. I wasn't even shot at on Christmas of last year but I had a gun pulled on me in a convenient store. When I went to make the police report I was asked:
-Where did he live?
-What did he drive?
-What was his name?
Pretty asinine questions to be sure, but I couldn't answer any of them. I saw him walking to the convenient store, so he didn't have a car. After the gun was pulled I didn't stop to ask him his name or where he lived. Although those were stupid questions, the point I'm trying to make is when things of this nature happen, you're not really trying to collect mental data about the perps, but instead actually looking out for your own self-preservation. When bullets are flying or are about to fly, you're not really looking at the height, weight, and nationality of the offender, you're looking at that brick wall you're about to jump behind or the car you're going to use for cover.
Lets not be so quick to judge.
I wouldn't be so quick to call prank due to lack of information. If you've ever been in a situation that summoned your adrenaline you may be talking different. I wasn't even shot at on Christmas of last year but I had a gun pulled on me in a convenient store. When I went to make the police report I was asked:
-Where did he live?
-What did he drive?
-What was his name?
Pretty asinine questions to be sure, but I couldn't answer any of them. I saw him walking to the convenient store, so he didn't have a car. After the gun was pulled I didn't stop to ask him his name or where he lived. Although those were stupid questions, the point I'm trying to make is when things of this nature happen, you're not really trying to collect mental data about the perps, but instead actually looking out for your own self-preservation. When bullets are flying or are about to fly, you're not really looking at the height, weight, and nationality of the offender, you're looking at that brick wall you're about to jump behind or the car you're going to use for cover.
Lets not be so quick to judge.
Evil Monkey
member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
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- 1,486
I think the real reason why many people on this board are so hostile towards people who share stories about agencies coming for a visit or getting shot at, etc., is because they deny that it actually happened. They don't want to accept the fact that it can happen to them so they try their hardest to discredit the thread poster because they can't handle the reality they are also living in.
We call these people "weak minded".
We call these people "weak minded".
brighamr
Member
I agree that first and foremost, you need to get out of the way of the oncoming bullets. On the other hand, all this incident did was help boost the ergo of said perps "we made that guy run his feet off!". Which leads to future incidents.
If I was in your shoes, without carry and someone started blasting at me (which has happened), get out of the way but try to look at everything you see (make/model of SUV, color, tattoos of perps, spinner rims, anything that could help identify the scum bags).
In my personal experience, I got jumped and stabbed twice in the ghetto known as south sacramento. I fled to the nearest gas station, in the middle of my run, I was shot by a .22 in my left calf. I locked myself in the gas station bathroom and called 911 (not the bravest thing to do, but I'm still alive). When the cops came, I told them everything I could about the three guys, hair color, approx height/weight, car model and color, approximate size of knife, color of their clothing, some things they had yelled at me, etc. The guys were surprizingly well known in that precinct and the one who stabbed me was arrested the next day, with the knife still on his person. I never heard about the other two.
Needless to say, after that incident I treat ghettos and even sketchy areas much differently (only go when I must, always armed, and usually go in groups).
My advice to you is get a carry, and while you're waiting for it to clear maybe walk home with some buddies who wouldn't mind some extra sparring after class
If I was in your shoes, without carry and someone started blasting at me (which has happened), get out of the way but try to look at everything you see (make/model of SUV, color, tattoos of perps, spinner rims, anything that could help identify the scum bags).
In my personal experience, I got jumped and stabbed twice in the ghetto known as south sacramento. I fled to the nearest gas station, in the middle of my run, I was shot by a .22 in my left calf. I locked myself in the gas station bathroom and called 911 (not the bravest thing to do, but I'm still alive). When the cops came, I told them everything I could about the three guys, hair color, approx height/weight, car model and color, approximate size of knife, color of their clothing, some things they had yelled at me, etc. The guys were surprizingly well known in that precinct and the one who stabbed me was arrested the next day, with the knife still on his person. I never heard about the other two.
Needless to say, after that incident I treat ghettos and even sketchy areas much differently (only go when I must, always armed, and usually go in groups).
My advice to you is get a carry, and while you're waiting for it to clear maybe walk home with some buddies who wouldn't mind some extra sparring after class
theken206
Member
lol "thats seattle"
good luck on anyone getting that obsucre local gangsta rap quote
meh I say seattle is pretty much like anyother big city cept we tend to stay off the radar as far as the "big media" and for that matter word of mouth goes and you prolly really wouldnt get a "real" taste for the local "underworld" unless you knew what to look for prolly.
WA state has a large amount of gangs and the related violence and crime. Out in the lower yakima valley thats really all thats going on out there right now, granger,sunnyside,toppenish, I hear about shootings, stabbings, beatings almost daily.
Although we are just about on track with last years homicides{ seattle that is} its starting to pick up and the violence is rising. A cop got jumped not to long ago, people are getting shot more and more often. oh well "thats seattle"
good luck on anyone getting that obsucre local gangsta rap quote
meh I say seattle is pretty much like anyother big city cept we tend to stay off the radar as far as the "big media" and for that matter word of mouth goes and you prolly really wouldnt get a "real" taste for the local "underworld" unless you knew what to look for prolly.
WA state has a large amount of gangs and the related violence and crime. Out in the lower yakima valley thats really all thats going on out there right now, granger,sunnyside,toppenish, I hear about shootings, stabbings, beatings almost daily.
Although we are just about on track with last years homicides{ seattle that is} its starting to pick up and the violence is rising. A cop got jumped not to long ago, people are getting shot more and more often. oh well "thats seattle"
FourTeeFive
Member
People here, like everywhere, have a right to privacy
I think people should feel free to post their experiences without having to be grilled by other THR members.
That, in my opinion, IS taking The High Road.
I think people should feel free to post their experiences without having to be grilled by other THR members.
That, in my opinion, IS taking The High Road.
FourTeeFive
Member
Yes, Yakima, or "Crackima" as some call it, is a bit of hotbed. Lots of drug distribution there, and therefore the associated fun that goes with it.
I still say Seattle as a big city is pretty safe. No doubt there is gang activity and violence (we've had a few odd and well-publicized massacres) but for the most part it is a pretty safe city for its size. That said, bad things can happen to you anywhere. Be safe, be prepared.
Snake Eyes
Member
Oh yeah.....Venom and Tabella are 3 blocks apart....I live right inbetween them. The only thing I can "prolly" count on is gunshots between midnight Friday and 3 am Monday.
That and 20+ crack dealers in a 3 block radius, in any given direction.
(Non-Seattlites: Search the Post-Intelligencer archives for "Tabella". I guarantee you any article with that club name in it is referencing a shooting. Venom is second.)
theken206
Member
"That and 20+ crack dealers in a 3 block radius, in any given direction."
lol only 20?? geez I think theyre are 20 people slanging crack on 216th off 99 in des moines right now, and they just did a "round up" as well. But hey at least they got to log in a couple of arrest and pad the books a bit
didnt look no diffrent to me going by today
"Oh yeah.....Venom and Tabella are 3 blocks apart....I live right inbetween them. The only thing I can "prolly" count on is gunshots between midnight Friday and 3 am Monday."
a part of that problem is that there really isnt THAT much of a "night life" scene here like other large cities like us{as in there really arent that many clubs, lounges, strip clubs, ect ect} coupled with a douchebag mayor, so when a place gets a rep or becomes a hot spot for something it tends to stay that way untill it gets shut down or closes.
lol only 20?? geez I think theyre are 20 people slanging crack on 216th off 99 in des moines right now, and they just did a "round up"
as well. But hey at least they got to log in a couple of arrest and pad the books a bitdidnt look no diffrent to me going by today
"Oh yeah.....Venom and Tabella are 3 blocks apart....I live right inbetween them. The only thing I can "prolly" count on is gunshots between midnight Friday and 3 am Monday."
a part of that problem is that there really isnt THAT much of a "night life" scene here like other large cities like us{as in there really arent that many clubs, lounges, strip clubs, ect ect} coupled with a douchebag mayor, so when a place gets a rep or becomes a hot spot for something it tends to stay that way untill it gets shut down or closes.
Had something similar happen to me once years ago..
I was out and about with a friend, and a van filled with hooligans drove by us slowly giving mean looks. After they circled around and did it the second time, we changed directions and cut through a parking lot to a parallel street. Seconds later, the van squealed around the corner, and dumped 20+ rounds from what sounded like a submachine gun on full-auto right by where we would have been.
After that, we ran towards the back side of some one-story commercial building, scurried up to the roof via a drain pipe and an air conditioner like startled squirrels, and laid down flat so they wouldn't see us if they decided to drive around to find us.
So, yea, nothing wrong with running away to fight another day. Even if I had a gun then (or anyone does else in a similar situation), 'tis probably best to find cover/concealment when someone in a car has the drop on you like that. Especially when you don't know how many other weapons they have in the car.
I was out and about with a friend, and a van filled with hooligans drove by us slowly giving mean looks. After they circled around and did it the second time, we changed directions and cut through a parking lot to a parallel street. Seconds later, the van squealed around the corner, and dumped 20+ rounds from what sounded like a submachine gun on full-auto right by where we would have been.
After that, we ran towards the back side of some one-story commercial building, scurried up to the roof via a drain pipe and an air conditioner like startled squirrels, and laid down flat so they wouldn't see us if they decided to drive around to find us.
So, yea, nothing wrong with running away to fight another day. Even if I had a gun then (or anyone does else in a similar situation), 'tis probably best to find cover/concealment when someone in a car has the drop on you like that. Especially when you don't know how many other weapons they have in the car.
You noticed they were insulting you verbally as someone unloaded a pistol in your direction? With all that noise?
I will back Doc up on this one. I'm wary to believe this story until I see something concrete on it. To be honest, the number of posts a member has says a lot about creditability. If a guy randomly appears and has less than 30 posts and is talking about getting in a shoot out, or something else major, I think we all would admit a link to a news article (at very least) would be appreciated.
If he lives near a college campus, and an SUV blazed away at him like a Chuck Norris film, the police report would DEFINETELY appear in either the local newspaper and on the police report section of the local college newspaper web site. There would be something more than just his story.
fast eddie
Member
Clarify "get a carry." Stungun, pepperspray, telescoping club? This is personal decision and only you can make it.
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FourTeeFive
Member
Belltown, Seattle
I never understood why that area got to be so developed. I remember it as crackhead-central and always stayed away from there. I still do!
What a coincidence you mention that area:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003772216_belltownshooting03m.html
On the other hand here's a very nice condo right nearby with a lovely terrace from which to watch the excitement:
http://www.windermere.com/lid6984581
I never understood why that area got to be so developed. I remember it as crackhead-central and always stayed away from there. I still do!
What a coincidence you mention that area:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003772216_belltownshooting03m.html
On the other hand here's a very nice condo right nearby with a lovely terrace from which to watch the excitement:
http://www.windermere.com/lid6984581
Chupacabra
Member
I think this probably happened in the University District. There have been a slew of break-ins, shootings, and muggings north of 45th street the last couple of months. Last week, a bouncer at Tommy's (a club on University Ave.) was shot after denying a group of men entry. There is all sorts of drug and gang activity in the area and it is getting worse.
Like others have said, the best thing to do is find cover and get the heck out of Dodge. Also, try not to be on the street after midnight. All the bad stuff tends to happen between 12 and 3am.
748
member
"I'm calling BS on this one."
I know shootings like that have happened where I live or at least a block or 2 down the street.
How many times have you woken up to gun fire out side?
Me at least 5 or 6 times last summer not counting right around 4th of july.
Last 4th of july I said to my visiting mother in law - "those arn't fire works".
I know shootings like that have happened where I live or at least a block or 2 down the street.
How many times have you woken up to gun fire out side?
Me at least 5 or 6 times last summer not counting right around 4th of july.
Last 4th of july I said to my visiting mother in law - "those arn't fire works".
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