how much trouble am I in?

But the law doesn't spell out a list of "lawful" purposes. If the right court interprets the law...

You aren't just dealing with the law. You are dealing with the regulations of the agency whose property you are on. These agencies typically have authority to implement the law via regulation, and that spells out what you can or cannot do. Unless the regs are arbitrary or capricious, the courts will uphold them as they are give great defernce to agencies in this area.

There's this case called Parker that's been in the news lately...you might want to have your lawyer take a look at it...something about the INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms...the VA, being based in DC, might be subject to it...

...yes the case only specifically addresses guns in DC homes (the "keep" bit), but that creates a great launchpad for insisting the 2nd Amendment doesn't end at your front door (the "bear" bit).


BTW and worth repeating: this is a great example of why you NEVER consent to a search without a warrant. They're searching because they think you've committed a crime, and are looking for evidence. They are not on your side at that point, and sometimes neither is your memory.

I'm a little confused here. When you say the police gave you a ticket, what police were they? State? Federal? If state, then the ticket should be in yhe local county court, correct? Just wondering here. Is the parking lot posted with signage as you enter, or just the building? And, how did you get charged with a concealed weapon when it was not on your person or within easy access? Last but not least, why in the world did you pull out a loaded mag and show someone?

I work at a VA facility. No firearms are allowed on the property. Period. This includes your car. Even the VA police (who are sworn peace officers) are not allowed to bring an off-duty weapon on the grounds.

Just my 2 cents:

I think in this case you may (key word 'may') have helped yourself by allowing the search. Sure you could have demanded a warrant but I don't think they would have had much trouble getting one. You did have a loaded magazine in your pocket. If you had taken that path you may have ended up with much more than a ticket and a note that you were abrasive and uncooperative.

Also, their king notes on your behalf may be enough for you to convince a District/State Attorney to drop the charges against you all together or to reduce your charges to the least harmful to you.

As for whether the charge is a felony or misdemeanor, I would think the fact that you received a ticket and were let go rather than arrested means it isn’t a felony.

I fail to see how having a loaded magazine in your pocket is reason to search anything. Particularly if it wasn't incident to a crime. I would pray a judge wouldn't give a warrant for that.

He never should have consented to the search but that is water over the bridge now.

Get a lawyer.

He never should have consented to the search but that is water over the bridge now.

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That's either a low bridge or high water.

roguetek (or anyone else who frequents a VA), is there a sign up indicating that entry onto the premises constitutes consent to search?

As usual, this situation points out how badly firearm and security laws have been screwed up in this country.

I fail to see how having a loaded magazine in your pocket is reason to search anything. Particularly if it wasn't incident to a crime. I would pray a judge wouldn't give a warrant for that.

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I hate to say this as I totally disagree with the standard of obtaining a warrant being merely “reasonable” belief. However, it is a simple fact is that in the eyes of the law, a loaded magazine and a firearm are ‘complimentary’ items. In society, people are found to be in possession of both of these items together far more often then they are found to be in possession of only one of the pair. This alone is sufficient for passing the “reasonable” standard. As for the crime, if it is illegal for the item to be on the property then this is the crime they have reason to believe is occurring.

We had something similar incident here at UF a couple years ago. A staff member at a dorm hall received a package for one of the residents. That package had an ‘ammo inside’ label on it. Based on this label, the staff member called University Police, as having firearms on campus is illegal. The officers came, searched the resident’s room, found a .22 rifle under the bed, and arrested the student.

Let me say again, just because I am saying this is the reality of the situation doesn’t mean I agree with it. As I said, I personally feel that “reasonable belief” is too weak of a justification for obtaining a warrant to search.

Elza said:

I work at a VA facility. No firearms are allowed on the property. Period. This includes your car. Even the VA police (who are sworn peace officers) are not allowed to bring an off-duty weapon on the grounds.

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While I have no doubt that this is what you have been told, and even that this may be what the VA police believe, do you know if anyone has ever asked the VA police how that policy stands muster under the language of Section 930 USC (which was quoted verbatim earlier in this thread)?

Related question for Buzz Knox: Sure, agencies enact regulations, but they can enact regulations only when there is a law authorizing them to do so. That's why the post office is different from other Federal facilities, for example. There is another Section of the USC that exempts the postal service from Section 930, and gives them the right to enact their own regulations. I don't recall the Section, but it was cited in a different thread on this forum a few months ago.

Even when an agency is authorized to adopt regulations, they can't adopt regulations that are at odds with the statutes. If Section 930 defines "Federal facility" as a building (which it does), where would an agency (the VA, for example) derive any authority to expand that definition to include the grounds? The only mention of "grounds" in Section 930 is in reference to Federal courts. This pretty clearly indicates that the drafters of the law were cognizant of the distinction between "building" and "grounds," yet they chose to define "Federal facility" as a building, and grant the power to regulate the possession of weapons on the grounds only to the Federal courts.

Despite my tendency to ask dumb questions just to play devil's advocate, in this instance I have a personal interest in clarifying the issue. I use the services of a VA hospital in my state. Since a range where I sometimes shoot is on the opposite side of the city from the VA hospital, it would be convenient to be able to load a few toys in the car, go to my appointment, and then continue on directly to the range. However, I would prefer not to end up in the same situation as Roguetek. Thus, I would greatly appreciate any further clarifications that might be offered.

I have a friend that is a federal security policeman here at the local VA. I will call him and give you an answer tomorrow morning. But if in not mistaken you will end up paying a ticket and that's it.

Bottom Line: You need a lawyer, like NOW!!!

Y'all can cuss and discuss it all day long, what matters is how this will play before a Federal Magistrate. Especially if you wish to begin a new career as a gunsmith.

One thing in your favor - If the charges aren't spelled out on the ticket a lawyer can make good use of this. Also the fact that you can prove that you were given new medications that affected you adversely and that this is documented by their doctors will help. However, all of this is crapola except in the hands of a good attorney.

Ok here, how it goes first you need to confirm whether you were issued a ticket or a citation. If you were issued a ticket for violating the reg of bringing a weapon in a federal building which is somewhere like $250 all you have to do is pay the amount by sending it in as the reverse of the ticket explains to you.

It will get filed and end of story unless you want to contest it. Then you will have to appear in front of a federal judge and argue your case.

If you just pay the fine it just gets filed and if in the future you happen to do it again then You might end up with a citation to go straight to the court.

If a citation was issued then you might want to consider a lawyer. But I doubt you were cited since this transforms in to more paperwork for the officers and its avoided unless you are a 2nd time offender.

My advice pay the ticket and let it be. No need for a lawyer$$ on that part.

Sad commentary on the Internet gun "community." Here's a guy who asks what sounded like a serious question, a lot of people jumped in to offer the best information and advice they could, and the original poster's response is ...

It's not like roguetek hasn't been around. The last post in this thread was made by Amigo on 24 May at 08:19 a.m. Roguetek was last on-line 25 May at 11:58 a.m. Not a word in this thread -- not a "thank you," not a "piss off you losers," ... nothing.

I think we've been had by a troll.

Will those of you who guessed.....

actual damage: 100.00, and I get my gun back

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please step forward and claim your prize.


Glad it wasn't worse than it was, but it's a damned shame you even had to deal with this in the first place.

glad to hear it worked out ok.

You have been given a second chance.

Use it wisely!

(Seriously, I'm glad it turned out the way it did....)

Lawyer.

NOW.

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100% agree.

Over seventy replies and all from wanna be lawyers. I try to understand the PTSD, but . . . . . . . . . . . When my parents gave me my first firearm over 45 years ago one of the rules was to know where it was at all times. This guy wants to be a gunsmith and can't remember where he left a gun!

I didn't read anything but hte OP.

IANAL.

My advice? Lawyer up now. Today.