General Geoff
Member
^^Agree. My life is not so precious that I would trade liberty in order to prolong it.
Same thought here. The government could lock me in a padded room and keep me safe until I pass on naturally from old age but I would rather be out in the world going where I want and doing what I please... even if it means a terrorist might blow me up when I'm shopping in the mall. That is a chance I'm willing to take.My life is not so precious that I would trade liberty in order to prolong it.
Press Release: Ron Paul Wins Big
Ron Paul Wins Big in First New Hampshire Straw Poll
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 7, 2007
ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – Presidential candidate Ron Paul today won the Coalition for New Hampshire Taxpayers (CNHT) straw poll at their annual picnic in Hopkinton, New Hampshire. Dr. Paul received 182 of 294 votes cast, or 65 percent. In second place was Rudy Giuliani with 24 votes, or 8 percent.
"Today's strong victory is further proof that Dr. Paul's message is resonating throughout New Hampshire," said campaign manager Lew Moore. "Dr. Paul is the only candidate in this race truly dedicated to smaller government and lower taxes for all Americans."
CNHT is a statewide, grassroots organization dedicated to reducing the size of government at all levels, stopping judicial activism, providing students and parents with a choice of educational opportunities, expanding job markets, and protecting property rights.
Biker sez:
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Would you have that same confidence in our Gov't if Hillary was the Head Honcho?
To which Marshall replies:
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But to be more to the point. Yes, I would.
That's really all I need to know right there.
Well, that kind of assumes that there is anything or, the lack anything, that would make me feel comfortable with Hillary in the Whitehouse.
But to be more to the point. Yes, I would. These daily decisions of whom to listen to and whom not to listen to are made on a much lower level the POTUS. Call me naive.
Besides, do you think there's any law that would stop Hillary from anything? I don't.
Same thought here. The government could lock me in a padded room and keep me safe until I pass on naturally from old age but I would rather be out in the world going where I want and doing what I please... even if it means a terrorist might blow me up when I'm shopping in the mall. That is a chance I'm willing to take.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty
That's noble of you. What about your neighbors 7yr old daughter. Would you be so noble with her life? If an FBI agent could have listened to and tracked down a terrorist, because of the Patriot Act, that could save that little girls life, are you saying you wouldn't let that happen?My life is not so precious that I would trade liberty in order to prolong it.
Ron Paul Wins Big
Ron Paul Wins Big in First New Hampshire Straw Poll
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 7, 2007
ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – Presidential candidate Ron Paul today won the Coalition for New Hampshire Taxpayers (CNHT) straw poll at their annual picnic in Hopkinton, New Hampshire. Dr. Paul received 182 of 294 votes cast, or 65 percent. In second place was Rudy Giuliani with 24 votes, or 8 percent.
"Today's strong victory is further proof that Dr. Paul's message is resonating throughout New Hampshire," said campaign manager Lew Moore. "Dr. Paul is the only candidate in this race truly dedicated to smaller government and lower taxes for all Americans."
CNHT is a statewide, grassroots organization dedicated to reducing the size of government at all levels, stopping judicial activism, providing students and parents with a choice of educational opportunities, expanding job markets, and protecting property rights.
That's noble of you. What about your neighbors 7yr old daughter. Would you be so noble with her life? If an FBI agent could have listened to and tracked down a terrorist, because of the Patriot Act, that could save that little girls life, are you saying you wouldn't let that happen?
OUCH! "You can give up that liberty--it isn't essential!" Now I've heard everything.And, what essential Liberty are you giving up? What is it you can't do that is "essential"? What has changed in your life since the Patriot Act that keeps you from enjoying "essential" liberty? True stories please.
I had to fill out a freakin' form when I was buying a house because of the Patriot Act.Under the Patriot Act, certain financial transactions are reported to the federal government, which also violates privacy.
You realize that your neighbor's daughter has a much higher chance of being killed while riding in the car with mommy and daddy than she does from a terrorist attack, right?That's noble of you. What about your neighbors 7yr old daughter. Would you be so noble with her life? If an FBI agent could have listened to and tracked down a terrorist, because of the Patriot Act, that could save that little girls life, are you saying you wouldn't let that happen?
For me to believe otherwise would require me to give up my belief in America.
To be frank, no, I wouldn't. Bringing the proverbial "innocent child" into the argument is the last refuge of a person who's losing. That 7 year old girl's life is the responsibility of her parents, NOT the government's. Her life is not on the line here; only the question of who should be responsible.
I had to fill out a freakin' form when I was buying a house because of the Patriot Act.
How in the world is buying a house in any way related with terrorist activities? Please someone fill me in here.
"You can give up that liberty--it isn't essential!" Now I've heard everything.
Marshall, I didn't take anything out of context, and understood what you meant. You are OK with the extra powers the Patriot Act gives the federal government, even if Hillary is president.
That is what you meant, right?
The question Biker asked pertained to my confidence in the Patriot Act and if it would be the same if Hillary was President. My reply was.........
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Well, that kind of assumes that there is anything or, the lack anything, that would make me feel comfortable with Hillary in the Whitehouse.
But to be more to the point. Yes, I would. These daily decisions of whom to listen to and whom not to listen to are made on a much lower level the POTUS. Call me naive.
Besides, do you think there's any law that would stop Hillary from anything? I don't.
Random bag searches on the NYC subway clearly violate the 4th Amendment. Under the Patriot Act, certain financial transactions are reported to the federal government, which also violates privacy.
You realize that your neighbor's daughter has a much higher chance of being killed while riding in the car with mommy and daddy than she does from a terrorist attack, right?
Doesn't it make more sense to restrict our liberties when it comes to driving than it does from the Patriot Act? I mean, if you were really concerned about the girl's safety, you'd want to protect her from the thing that would be most likely to kill her, right?
Do you work for them or are you pushing this anti American Crud on your own.Ridiculous again. There are innocent accidents and there are terror acts. One we can try to do something about. We even try to help with the innocent accidents through seat belts, speed limits, traffic signals, training, licensing, etc. If I could stop a car bomber from blowing her up on purpose, I'd damn sure do all I can do. And our Govt should too since we have terrorist organization/Islamic Jihadic azzholes trying to do just that.
So all I have heard so far, about specific examples of how the Patriot Act is negatively effecting and hampering your freedom & liberties, to each of you, is the filling out of form when buying house and if you ride a subway you might have to show you're not carrying a bomb, maybe.
OK, I'm with you at this point. So some guys at the Treasury Dept have put together a list of undesirables due to having committed or "pose a significant risk of committing" (nice bit of thought-crime there) acts of terrorism. These guys are blocked from doing stuff like, for example, buying a house.What’s behind it? The Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control maintains the “specifically designated nationals” (SDN) list of people blocked from participating in “any transaction or dealing … in property or interests” within the United States. These people have been identified “to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, acts of terrorism.
OK, here's where you lost me. These "undesirables" can't be tracked by the Treasury Dept for one reason or another, so instead every single person (note I am NOT a family, I am a single white male who bought a house on his own) now becomes a possible terror suspect and the Government is pushing the onus of verifying my lack of "terroristic intent" onto whatever financial institution is assisting me in my purchase of a home.Although the blocked-persons list has been around in some form for about a decade, under the order private individuals (be they jewelers, pawnbrokers or suburban families) buying or selling property are now considered “financial institutions” by the government. And the responsibility has fallen to the title companies to check all parties involved in a transaction against the list. “The SDN list has been around for years. Obviously, since 9/11 the use of charities and banks and different organizations for terrorists to move money have brought it more to light. Terrorist use properties to launder money.
I don't care if things like the Patriot Act never personally effect me or even if they never personally effect any other innocent person. Even if the Patriot Act was proven to have prevented something worse than 9/11, I would still be against it. It is unconstitutional. If you think we need it, then you should work to change the constitution. Get a grassroots movement together and push to repeal the 4th Amendment and all the others our "war on terror" violates.Marshall said:Watch what you ask for, you might get your wish with this enemy. What is it and where is it, respectively, that you are unable to do and unable to go because of the Patriot Act?