Bad experience at a gun shop

rangerruck · Jul 20, 2007

Personally I wouldn't sweat it. As a matter of fact, I would do the exact opposite, and preach to them, not with your mouth, but go there often, while wearing your headgear. As an evangelical, i would be proud to be in your presence, but you gotta understand, there are a lot of folks who have never even met a jew, much less one that wears anything traditional. Also , when i first heard your story unfolding, i thought of something totally diff, not prejudice at all, but like they were worried about you... you know, he's gotta be from a lawyer group. or a PAC, or Aclu, and they are coming in here now, to check up on me, to get me... these were my first thoughts, FOR THEM. i myself live in Houston, and there is a large jewish population here, many orthodox, and heck , I even grew up in a jewish neighborhood, called MEYERLAND!!!! So , I am trying to think how they may think. now of course, let us not forget also, that these folks could be from a long line of southern Baptists, who are not evangelical or full gospel, yet, because they have not yet seen the Dinner Plate of Peter, so to speak.(touched by the Spirit) My ex girlfriend, her parents are from Mississippi, and they are some of the greatest peeps you could ever meet, but they are slightly rascist. Why? because they still hold on to the belief that God seperated all the races for a reason. which of course, for the sake of the Jews, he did. but it was more for a spiritual reason, not a racial reason. As any Evangelical can tell you, Two of Josephs kids were Ephraim and Mannasseh, not exactly purely Jewish, and one of Moses' wives was an Ethiopian, so there , you heathens!!!....
Anyways, I say it is time to go make some new friends, and sure enough, at one time or another, one of the dudes there is gonna ask you about the 'skullcap', and what's it for, and it'll be all good from then on.
"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem", and " Next year in Jerusalem"... later.

mec · Jul 20, 2007

...Moses' wives was an Ethiopian, s

I wonder if she had those interesting blue/gray eyes like some of the modern ones do?

Breakdaddy · Jul 20, 2007

It stinks you were treated poorly by those guys. I definitely would not darken their doorway again.

Samuraigg · Jul 20, 2007

I get some problems because of my age, considering I'm only 21. Never say "Hi" to me as I walk in, never acknowledge me. Last time I went into a gunshop to buy some pistol ammo, the guy gives me this dirty look as I hand him the ammo and my FOID card. Stares at the card for what must have been 45 seconds, saying not a word. Rings it up and hands it back to me in complete silence as I gave him the money. It was a very uncomfortable experience.

I wish they would treat young gun owners better. We are the next generation of voters who will be protecting the 2AM in the future.

antsi · Jul 20, 2007

-------quote-------
I was identifiably Jewish
-------------------

That may or may not be the reason. Some folks are more ignorant than prejudiced per se. They may not even know what a yarmulke signifies. For all we know, they might have taken it as a sign you were mujahadein.

Whatever their reasons, there is a great way to respond to being treated rudely at a place of business: take your business elsewhere. Sometimes it is worthwhile to let a businessowner know why they lost your business.

Kentak · Jul 20, 2007

First let me point out that if you are biased against Muslims, you are also anti Semitic. Jews dont hold the copyright on Semitism.

Whoa. Do some research. Muslims are of many ethnicities, not just Semitic peoples. Perhaps you are thinking of Arabs. Arabs are considered Semitic people. But, not all Arabs are Muslims, and, certainly, not all Muslims are Arabs. Indonesia has one of the largest non-Arabic Muslim populations. And, don't forget the Caucasian Muslims of Bosnia, Albania, Kosova, Bulgaria, Western Turkey, Russia, the Caucasus.

Okay?

K

Kentak · Jul 20, 2007

Chaim--

Due to bigotry or not, the rudeness shown to a customer is inexcusable for any respectable retail establishment, assuming the customer is behaving properly as well.

It's their problem. The appropriate response is to give your gun business to someone who appreciates it.

K

Prince Yamato · Jul 20, 2007

For all we know, they might have taken it as a sign you were mujahadein.

I'm going out on a limb here, but if you can't tell the difference between an Orthodox Jew and a Muslim, then you probably don't deserve to be breathing oxygen.

gyrfalcon16 · Jul 20, 2007

Why didn't you ask...

If this happened to me I would probably get pissed and confront the owner with a statement like:

What the hell do you mean you DON'T want them? Last time I was in here you said you did, and now you're dicking around with me...

Any reason you didn't do something to this regard?

Cannonball888 · Jul 20, 2007

They may not even know what a yarmulke signifies. For all we know, they might have taken it as a sign you were mujahadein.

Gee, I wish I had said something similar to that before you. Wait a minute...I did! :neener:

Those ignorant xenophobes probably don't know what a yarmulke is. They probably thought you were an Iraqui insurgent.

silverlance · Jul 20, 2007

to be perfectly honest, when i was a kid we would make all sorts of racist comments like "why do you have to be such a jew?" when someone isn't sharing or demands his money back that someone borrowed and didn't return for like a month; or "I got gypped" when we'd get ripped off.

The funny thing was, none of us knew any gypsies or jews. the only contact we had with ether was from TV and our parents telling us that,"i know this may sound racist, but you know the jews control all the money... if you are smart you will buy the same stocks they buy!"

later in life i met quite a few jews (including several potsmoking and definitely not orthodox ones) and whole villages of gypsies. the jews impressed me with their familial frankness even about taboo subjects and the gypsies.. well, they just made me feel really depressed. in bulgaria i remember seeing kids pulling half empty soda cans out of dumpsters and drinking it on the spot.

the gypsies would also have blood pimps. in bulgaria there is no such thing as a blood bank - if you need surgery you have to provide the blood. for a fee gypsies will hook you up with a gypsie of your blood type and then you pay per half liter or so. no BS, I saw this with my own eyes. =(

whats the point of my post? i dont know, i guess i just wanted to share my own experience where preconception met reality.

these days i treat anyone who owns and likes guns as a brother/sister, and everybody else as ignorant sheep who need to be educated.

kev

Snowdiver · Jul 20, 2007

Why didn't you ask...
If this happened to me I would probably get pissed and confront the owner with a statement like:

What the hell do you mean you DON'T want them? Last time I was in here you said you did, and now you're dicking around with me...

Any reason you didn't do something to this regard?

This is the way I have conducted myself throughout my life. When you articulate to these idiots they just might get it before they die. Speak up EVERY time that's your only option. Don't be rude be truthful.

TimboKhan · Jul 21, 2007

not all Muslims are Arabs. Indonesia has one of the largest non-Arabic Muslim populations

To clarify, Indonesia is the single largest Muslim country in the world by population. If I recall correctly, it is not a Muslim state like Iran, but it does have the largest Muslim population.

Happyshooter · Jul 21, 2007

They may have thought it was a set up. The jews I have known in the midwest who wore a jewish hat were either believers around yom kipper, or were ultra feinstein/kennedy drones who would kill themselves if anyone else of the far left wing of the party or israel wanted them to.

I would not trust someone in a jewish hat around here in a gun store to not be a set up guy for the ATF or some news crew.

jaholder1971 · Jul 21, 2007

Chaim,

Sounds like they had issues with something, just what I dunno.

Yes, Virginia, there are racists within the gunowning community. Ask anyone who ever went to the Big Kansas City Gun Shows over on Front street if they remember the knife dealer who had 20 tables and all his help wore Ku Klux Klan T-shirts.

But then there are those on the other end of the spectrum: Overland Park, Ks had a gun shop called The Second Amendment. They attempted to cater to the stereotypical Johnson County richie-rich wannabes. Back in the Bad Old Days of Brady I bought a used Model 10 from them while wearing a nice suit and tie as I'd been to a funeral earlier.

5 days later I was back in town and went to get my handgun after helping a cousin move out of her apartment. I was wearing Jean Shorts and a T shirt and they wanted no part of me until I told them to either give me my gun or give me my check back. All of a sudden they were really nice.

The owner later burned all his bridges in the City, closed the shop and offered his services to the antigun trail attorneys as an expert witness. A proven Dirtbag.

Bwana John · Jul 21, 2007

If you think being a Jew in a gunstore is hard, try being a women.

I have found some gunstores owners (and clients) to be the rudest, clannish, and downright nasty people I have found in almost any retail establishment.

That being said, I will admit to the some of the same behaviour when I percieve there is someone in the gunstore that I believe shouldnt be there.

TimboKhan · Jul 21, 2007

I would not trust someone in a jewish hat around here in a gun store to not be a set up guy for the ATF or some news crew.

Speaking of anti-semitism... Really, dude? Really? You don't have a problem with this statement? You don't think thats its pretty insulting to say that any one wearing a yarmulke in a gun store is either a rat or in the media? You don't think it insulting to say that while being so uninformed as to call a yarmulke a "jewish hat"? I wish I could convert to Judeaism just so I could follow you around gun stores wearing my "jewish hat" for the sole purpose of making you feel uncomfortable. Except on Yom Kippur, which is insulting in and of itself since you skip over the fact that Christian churches that are usually half empty are typically standing room only for Christmas services......

mec · Jul 21, 2007

Most of the Jews I know arn't liberoids so, I wouldn't peg somebody in a yarmulke as being an agent for the left. Kind of a neat aside. At the first instructor school for texas ccw I was standing next to this guy who'se name tag said " Haem Yadin." I asked him if he was related to the Israeli Minister of Antiquities- the guy who destroyed the Egyptian airforce on the runway. Turned out Haem is his nephew. A lot of our home-grown Jews here in central texas vote in the Republican Primary. They arn't RINOs either.

GTSteve03 · Jul 21, 2007

Maybe they just saw you the first time as a guy hard-up for some cash and were happy to take those guns off your hands for a lot less money than you deserved.

You come back the second time and they think "Oh great he's Jewish, we'll never be able to swindle him out of his cash" and they get all pi$$y with you.

Could just be a money thing, maybe?

McCall911 · Jul 21, 2007

Before the thread unfortunately gets locked, I'd like to say:

A lot of local Reform and Conservative Jews have long been uneasy about the liberalization of their respective movements in general. But, like most movements within religions, it certainly doesn't necessarily hold for every congregation or every congregation member. I think most would readily acknowledge that Jews and righteous gentiles are answerable to a Higher Law than mere liberal politics.

Cliff47 · Jul 21, 2007

Sounds like that particular shop just lost themselves a customer, and anybody else you care to pass that onto. And justifiably so. Karma indicates that what goes around comes around. To life.

chaim · Jul 21, 2007

TimboKhan said:
Quote:
I just popped by to say that it was anti-Jewish behavior that you
experienced, not necessarily anti-Semitic behavior

Color me uninformed, but whats the difference?

There isn't. "Anti-Jewish" behavior IS anti-semitism/anti-semitic behavior. When you run into someone trying to make a distinction between the two it is usually an anti-semite with an agenda. There are other Semitic groups so technically one could be anti-Semitic without being anti-Jewish (though historically anti-Semitism has referred ONLY to being anti-Jewish, being anti-Arab is just called racist), but if someone is anti-Jewish they are ALWAYS anti-Semitic.

antsi said:
That may or may not be the reason. Some folks are more ignorant than prejudiced per se. They may not even know what a yarmulke signifies.

That's true, some people just don't like anyone they know is different. They may not have known (at least not for sure) what the yarmulke meant, but they probably knew it was religious, and certainly knew it meant I was different from them. For some, that is all they need to dislike you.

gyrfalcon16 said:
If this happened to me I would probably get pissed and confront the owner with a statement like:

What the hell do you mean you DON'T want them? Last time I was in here you said you did, and now you're dicking around with me...

Any reason you didn't do something to this regard?

Yes, because I have a bit of a temper and the only way for me to control it is to ALWAYS control it. I wouldn't become violent or anything over something like this, but if I let myself I would have become worked up and become a raging jack* I'd rather occasionally walk away than become a jack*.

silverlance said:
to be perfectly honest, when i was a kid we would make all sorts of racist comments like...

You make a good point that fits in here very well. There are a lot of sayings that have nefarious origins. Some things we just say may be racist without us even being aware of it. It isn't just being PC to be careful about what we say. When I was younger I used gyped too without knowing what it referred to, now I am very vigilant to never use it.

happyshooter said:
They may have thought it was a set up. The jews I have known in the midwest who wore a jewish hat were either believers around yom kipper, or were ultra feinstein/kennedy drones who would kill themselves if anyone else of the far left wing of the party or israel wanted them to.

I would not trust someone in a jewish hat around here in a gun store to not be a set up guy for the ATF or some news crew.

Well, where to start? :cuss:

:banghead:

A "Jewish hat" is called a yarmulke or kippah. Jewish is ALWAYS capitalized, how would you like it if I spelled Christian as christian (disrespectful isn't it)? Jews who only go to synagogue on Yom Kippur aren't very religious, just like Christians who don't go to church except on Easter and Christmas Eve, they wouldn't be wearing a yarmulke (except maybe when in synagogue). No one loyal to the far left is also loyal to Israel (the far left hates Israel), and American Jews are Americans, we are not any more loyal to Israel than most European Americans are to their various "mother countries" (there may be an affinity and even love for the place but they certainly won't "kill themselves if...israel wanted them to").

Now as for the Jews as lefties stuff...Yes, many secular, Reform and Conservative Jews are liberal. Many are also Republicans, but yes, the majority are Democrats. However, that is starting to turn around. Further, the kind of Jews who are most likely to be seen wearing a yarmulke are Orthodox. That is the right wing expression of Judaism, and like most members of VERY traditional religions, most Orthodox Jews are VERY conservative in all parts of their lives. Believe it or not, compared to most Orthodox Jews, I look like I'm radical left instead of the moderate (who tends towards the right and libertarianism) that I am. BTW- there are plenty of Orthodox Jews in the Midwest (there are big populations in or near MI in Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago, and midsized populations in St.Paul/Minneapolis, Potsville IA, Milwaulkee WI, and quite a few other midwest cities).

Two Cold Soakers · Jul 21, 2007

chaim said

...because I have a bit of a temper and the only way for me to control it is to ALWAYS control it. ....I'd rather occasionally walk away than become a jack*.

That is the single most wise thing I've heard in a long time. To be able to apply that philosophy in my life is now a goal.

Thank you.

phaed · Jul 21, 2007

sorry that happened to you man. know that not everyone is like that.

Mr Weebles · Jul 21, 2007

They may have thought it was a set up. The jews I have known in the midwest who wore a jewish hat were either believers around yom kipper, or were ultra feinstein/kennedy drones who would kill themselves if anyone else of the far left wing of the party or israel wanted them to.

I would not trust someone in a jewish hat around here in a gun store to not be a set up guy for the ATF or some news crew.

I normally don't say things like this, but if there was a Superbowl of Stupid, you'd be the MVP. There are several Jewish folks at my gun club and NO ONE would confuse them for the ATF. Just like the rest of us there they enjoy shooting and spending time with other shooters.

Anyhoo ... it seems as if those gun shop guys were probably antisemitic but at the same time the other poster had a good point about gun shop owners being moody. I don't know why but they tend to run hot and cold. It must be a tough business.

Regardless of the reason, you should vote with your wallet and only shop where you feel comfortable.

Bad experience at a gun shop

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