Odd open carry...

I’d have to look up the numbers, but I think they are relatively high. The reason is a lot of violent crime associated with drug and people smuggling coming over our southern border from Mexico tends to inflate the statistics.

That said, we have substantial numbers of people who are licensed to carry concealed weapons, and only a miniscule few get crosswise with the law. Within the general population criminals who carry guns usually have prior records, and that goes for juveniles as well as those between 18 and 21. There are also a fair number of instances where an armed citizen has prevented or stopped a crime in progress – usually without doing any shooting.

Arizona law enforcement agencies and courts don’t generally get upset about people having or carrying guns, unless they use them to commit crimes, or are a “prohibited person,” who can’t own or carry a firearm because of past felonious behavior. However criminal use will likely get one a stay in a facility that has bars in the window. In addition, breaking into other people’s homes or assaulting them otherwise can be a hazardous undertaking, which apparently isn’t the case in the U.K.

Do the police stop and check the credentials of anyone carrying openly to see if they are prohibited?

You are right about the UK. Our criminals get all self righteous if anyone resists or tries to protect their property.

In one famous case a thief stole a bag at a train station and went to the toilets to see what it contained, The bag's owner thought to check the toilets as a good place to find the thief. He confronted the thief who tried to cut a deal once he saw the sword contained within the bag. The thief actually called the police once it became clear that the owner wanted his property back!!

Here in the UK stealing other peoples property is a less serious offence than carrying a weapon for SD. I think I should have been born in AZ to be honest.

Do the police stop and check the credentials of anyone carrying openly to see if they are prohibited?

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Not as a rule, but they can for cause. If you are stopped for a traffic infraction they may use your driver's licence number to make a record check on your background, and if a gun is in the car or on your person they may take it long enough to make a database check to see if it is possibly stolen. However if nothing is wrong the gun is quickly returned. Understand that you may openly carry a loaded handgun in your car without a licence, so long as the gun isn't concealed. That requires a permit.

You and your friends in the U.K. might find the following link to be interesting.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=288302

Matt W here is a link to the crime stats in Tucson http://tpdinternet.tucsonaz.gov/Stats/
And the rest of ya'll -keep talking about the guys you see carrying- I'm wanting to see if I get put on the list!

An openly worn shoulder holster makes pretty good sense driving a car.

Yes, open carry is legal, and yes, WalMart does NOT freak out, this is AZ

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And yes, the more people practice it, the more normal it will be to most people.

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http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

Jeff Cooper, September 1995

Strange at it may seem to our over-civilized friends throughout the world, it still warms our heart to see pistols worn openly in the check lines of supermarkets in Prescott. Sad to say most of the exemplars may properly be characterized as geezers, but then Prescott has always qualified as a geezer town - that is one reason why we moved here.

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Though I'm only 29, I suspect I may have some geezerish tendencies, probably the result of being raised in this geezer town.

Funny thing a few weeks ago at local bar called The Elbow Room. It is also known as "The Double Wide" which should give some insight into the average folks in there.

I go there for the people watching and because my former roommate is one of the bartenders. There was a guy coming in that looked just like a homeless Charles Manson open carrying a large frame revolver of some sort with at least an 8" barrel in a cheap nylon belt holster, I was not close enough to see exactly what it was. The bouncer at the door told Charlie he could not bring the weapon in but he could leave it with him.

Charlie proceeded to hand over the revolver, a cheap looking tiny automatic from his sock, and a glock of some kind from his waist band. He came in and had some drinks. I didn't have the balls to ask Charlie if he had a CCW permit or not...

He's not LE. I've seen that dude. He's usually has a clip on folder in each pocket and bowie knife too. Wears black jeans all the time. Just a nutjob. I heard him talking cowboy commando stuff at the gun counter once.

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While its our right to open carry (in many states) it is also our responsibility as firearm enthusiasts to dress and behave decently while we open carry.

A poorly dressed slob engaging in open carry in public loudly rambling on about mall-ninja commandoism in the wrong setting can do tremendous damage to our rights.

An openly worn shoulder holster makes pretty good sense driving a car.

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A strong-side thigh holster is actually faster from a car seat. Your legs are up high in relation to your body.

A shoulder belt would still have a bit of a tangle problem with a shoulder holster.

You have to understand that I am one of Her Majesties Subjects who suspects he has been lied to since being a boy.

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You suspect correctly.
Its the difference between being a citizen and a subject.
Congratulations on seeing the light!

Tucson the "Cosmic Center Of Eclectic Wierdness".

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+1. On the Scale of Tucsonian Eclectic Wierdness, this guy doesn't even rate a second thought. I would have forgotten about him completely if not for your post. Hell, they guy who used to ride a bike with a claymore (the sword, not the mine) on his back wearing a kilt and no shirt didn't rate. (Though my wife did opine if he was wearing underwear. Gotta get a kilt some day. Chicks always want to know if you are wearing underwear.)

There are some REAL weirdos here in Tucson.

Do the police stop and check the credentials of anyone carrying openly to see if they are prohibited?

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Not that I've ever seen. What credentials, anyway? A driver's license? Only required if they are driving AFAIK. I'm sure they might check if you were doing something suspicious, but I've never seen them questioning anyone who was carrying.

kbarrett

A strong-side thigh holster is actually faster from a car seat. Your legs are up high in relation to your body

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Not so sure on that one; I have no trouble with speedy access with a shoulder rig whether it is the conventional vertical type or the horizontal. And a better choice of the two when out on foot, mixing with crowds etc.

A shoulder belt would still have a bit of a tangle problem with a shoulder holster.

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Can't speak for anyone else but the upper seatbelt strap passes over the shoulder and down well out of the way on me.

I saw that guy at Home Depot. I was tempted to mention to him that there might be better options for open carry than his shoulder rig, but he looked like a fellow with an attitude. It wasn't the fact that he was open carrying, wearing all black, and dressed somewhat tacticool that bothered me, I can get over all that. It was something in the way he moved/looked at the people around him. My guts told me he wasn't a sheep dog, maybe not a wolf, but not a sheep dog. Maybe that's over judging him, I just new I didn't want to chat with him, and I'll wager he struck most people who saw him wrongly as well.

What is with this horizontal carry bit? It seemingly violates rule #2 all the time.

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The rules don't apply when a gun is in a serviceable safe, case, or holster that covers the trigger guard. As for the horizontal shoulder rig, I find it comfortable for environs where I'll be sitting for long periods of time - road trips and sitting at a desk, mostly. I'm going to Afghanistan in the near term, and the two Beretta holsters I intend to use are a drop leg while wearing body armor, and a horizontal shoulder rig for more relaxed environs (as much as that country can have them, anyway).

If the rules apply at all times and to all firearms always, you wouldn't be able to store guns in a safe in a multistory building. You wouldn't be able to walk around with a cased firearm, holding said case horizontally. You wouldn't be able to wear a belt holster in a multi-story building.

To armoredman et al, after reading your guys' posts about Tucson, I find myself missing Arizona. Weird sometimes? Sure. But mostly harmless. Beats the hell out of east Denver.

i have a couple of thoughts on this one..... please school me if i'm way off base..... i've been thinkin maybe all handgun owners should start to open carry as often as possible... it IS our constitutional 2nd amendment right..... i've always wondered why handgun owners want to be sure and close carry or cover carry... it's seem to me kinda like the gays were 15-20 years ago..... they were there but they were in the closet..... would people who indoctrinated in our public schools about the evils of the gun not get more used to seeing free men in AMERICA haveing guns and NOT shooting up places?? i would like to see more folks open carrying........... when i was looking for a holster and belt rig several years ago i looked at all kinds and got a bianchi ranger belt and holster set.... they are black nylon...i could have gotten leather but my thoughts are this is the 21st century why carry my weapon in animal skin.... like i said please straighten me out if wrong..............

LIFE IS SHORT.....

tasco 74:
The problem with that is that I'd be in for three counts of violation of the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act the moment I stepped outside my front door, because three school 1000ft exclusion zones cover my home. To my understanding it is still the law of the land. Sure, I've never heard of it enforced, but I don't have all the time to spare sitting in jail for my rights like hippies do for getting uppity.

Examples.
http://www.gunlaws.com/images/GFSZ Phoenix.jpg
http://www.gunlaws.com/images/GFSZ Cleveland.jpg
I suspect the zones in these images are too sparse, because I think the law applied to any K-12 school public or private, and my whole side of town is covered with them (based on a yp.yahoo.com search).

At least here I am allowed to walk my dog by the schools with concealed carry.

Am I wrong? Isn't the Federal Gun Free School Zone law still in effect?

buck00 said:

While its our right to open carry (in many states) it is also our responsibility as firearm enthusiasts to dress and behave decently while we open carry.

A poorly dressed slob engaging in open carry in public loudly rambling on about mall-ninja commandoism in the wrong setting can do tremendous damage to our rights.

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Sir, I disagree.

I maintain a high degree of hygiene and, while I'm not a wealthy man nor am I ignorant enough to waste money on vanities such as "name brands", I do dress decently and wear my clothes well.

HOWEVER

I also hike, camp, walk down streams, "waller in the mud" (as Ma would say) and do various other activities that young men should. Sometimes, I'll be OC'ing into the beer store after a week of canoeing with no opportunity to shower. I'm sure I smell of bug spray, dried sweat and river water. If no ladies are present, I probably use a bit of non F/S/C-word profanity.

I'm exercising my rights. My natural rights, those rights that every living creature has simply for existing and being alive. I'm not required to be a spokesman, I'm not required to be a role model. The values instilled in me by my parents keeps me from engaging in pernicious behavior, but I'll admit that sometimes I don't look like I've walked from the cover of GQ.

Quite frankly, if people think that I've got to "represent the community" when I OC, they should put me on some sort of payroll for so doing. Until that happens, I feel no compulsion to conform to the dress/hygiene standards of another person while I'm obeying the law.

I do see where you're coming from and I'm sure having loads of "scumbag" types OC'ing would draw attention, but I won't judge someone based on their looks. If they're OC'ing, they're most likely good guys.

I'm not out to recruit, though I'm more than happy to answer questions or discuss my choice with polite individuals, if I've the time.

Respectfully,

tJ

I'm exercising my rights. My natural rights, those rights that every living creature has simply for existing and being alive. I'm not required to be a spokesman, I'm not required to be a role model.

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Don't be ridiculous. Just like people who scream "Free speech! Free speech!" when they're told that what they're saying is wrong, you're responding to "You shouldn't" with "But it's my right!" The post you're answering is making a very good point that presenting a slovenly image hurts credibility. And anyway, the just-out-of-the-field look is much more respectable in the eyes of the general public than just-don't-give-a-damn, shorts/dirty tank top/flip-flops look.

I'm not being ridiculous, I'm stating facts.

I know that you aren't debating the legal merit of this, we all understand that the law allows you to parade about in any manner of clothing without limiting your rights.

However, the notion that we all simply must go out ready to represent some "community" of individuals who partake in a specific right reeks of classism.

Motorcyclists are commonly stereotyped as being "scummy" (or whatever), yet they've managed to repel laws against helmet wearing, have they not?

Nothing that we can do will convince the boobs amongst us that firearms are acceptable accessories for all occasions. The five minutes someone might see me doesn't compare to the hours of absurdity shoveled down their throats on the television. If someone possesses the requisite intelligence to think for themselves, they can only come to one conclusion. And that unassailable conclusion, the one we've all reached here, isn't changed by the actions of a minority of partipants.

Respectfully,
tJ

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Also, why can't people of lesser means of income be able to defend themselves? If I were out and about in shorts, a dirty tank top and flip flops (obviously, quite the stretch!), while also carrying my weapon, I'd know that the total dollar amount of the items I've on my body far exceeds that of almost anyone else.

"Oh, you're insulting me for wearing off-brand clothes? My SIG cost twenty times what your stupid jeans did and I'll looking down from heaven when it's in my great-grandkids hands".

*shrug*

Respectfully,

tJ

i use a bianchi 13 horizontal shoulder rig for 1911 from time to time. if someone doesn't want to stand in line behind me, it's their chioice to stand in another line.

First of all, I'm the biggest proponent of open carry you will find anywhere.

On that note, while this fellow wasn't breaking any laws, he commit a bit of a social faux pas in my mind. There's nothing wrong with having an emotion-based aversion to staring down the barrel of a loaded gun, even if the triggerguard is covered. Like most socially-constructed concepts, this one isn't based on logic (a concealed horizontal shoulder holster would be A-OK), but its still something at which I might roll my eyes and "mentally shun".

Was he wearing socks with sandals too?

I don't open carry often....but when I do, it is either my 1911...or..........a P-38 with the military flap holster THE HORROR!!!!

I always enjoy the odd assembly of folks who open carry....usually 2 types.... very in-tune with the freedom issues at hand....or genuinely don't give a darn. Independent minded folks are like that, and I for one like it, then again that is me, I always have marched to the tune of my own drum also.

A little suprised at some of the comments.....as long as no laws are broken, does it really matter? We aren't allowed to be different?