"you dont have to worry about if the bullet will fragment or not."

Gaping holes in vital organs kill people....

from reading that, it seems that the point was that hp 5.56 will fragment or expand more reliability than ball ammo at longer range

www.theboxotruth.com would probably have that info

I may be mistaken but I don't think ball will "expand" at any range.

Yes, ball doesn't expand much at all, unless it fragments, making that statement something of an understatement.

I wonder if HPs would tend to overpenetrate more than fragmenting types though.

the whole point with "ball" 5.56 ammo (and many other military rifle cartridges) is that they "tumble" when they hit flesh, creating a wide wound channel. The round is much longer than its own diameter. It needs no expanding or fragmentation to do the job. This doesn't account for AP/frangible ammo, of course, just regular "ball".

Tell me your thinking about this. I believe for the uses most of us would employ an AR, it really won't matter whether it's hp or ball. Most of us would employ the thing (in self defense mode) against people within 50 feet - and probably WELL within 50 feet. Does anyone have research or real life experience that demonstrates ball ammo is ineffective at that range?

Seriously, I've sometimes chuckled at the use of varmint ammo for defense purposes, but jeez, the whole free world has chosen this stuff for over 40 years now, and continues to choose it for future weapons. At realistic domestic ranges, does anyone doubt the effectiveness of the ball ammo?

Oh, one other thought... what does law enforcement use in theirs? Anyone know?

The military uses ball ammo for reasons that may not apply to all civilian shooters. Different tools for different jobs.

Any ball at close range going 3000+ FPS will turn any Bad Guys innards to jelly.

Best performing factory load I have used for deer here in Texas is the 64gr Winchester Power Point. Good penetration and expansion.

I have seen the HP bullets blow up and fail to penetrate a deer leaving a large shallow wound. Stay away from it.

None of the .223 will penetrate bricks, but will go through a wood frame house easily.

In short the ball ammo will work at short range, a good heavy for caliber soft point will provide better performance.
Fire away with confidence.

Too often I read about how the 16 inch barrels on M4s dont provide enough velocity for reliable fragmentation of FMJs out past 100 meters, my point was that he doesnt have to use FMJs, he can use virtually any expanding ammunition he wants since he is a civillian.

True, he can use any ammo, but the ammo does not expand, as noted. The little teeny tiny hole does not cause the round to mushroom.

On top of that, I am not sure in what situation it would be necessary for a person to need a rifle for defense and need rounds to tumble on impact beyond 100 yards. Heck, the average engagement distance of police snipers is only 60 yards.

M4s, as I recall, have a 1:7 or 1:8 twist rate that compliments heavier ammo. Standard 55 gr. ball would be about the lightest you would want to use. However, if wacki went with a slower twist rate out of another 16" barrel, then he could shoot lighter ammo that would be more apt to fragment a bit further.

M4s (the real ones) have 14.5" barrels and 1/7 twist rates.

Civilian copies of M4s can have any twist rate (mostly 1/9 until the last few years when 1/7 twist became popular) and most have 16" barrels, although some AR fans register 14.5" NFA carbines and some just permanently attach a long flash hider on to keep it legal.

As far as the quote in the original post, if the carbine has a 1/7 twist, you can run 75gr or 77gr OTM (Open Tip Match), or BTHP (Boat Tailed Hollow Point) rounds using Hornady or Sierra projectiles. The light construction of these 'match' bullets have a serendipitous tendency to tumble and fragment at much lower velocities than M193 or M855 ball (keep in mind that just like the military ball, they were not designed to do this, these match rounds were designed for accurate paper punching). This extends their effective range a little bit over those rounds regardless of barrel length.

The military uses the 77gr. Sierra Match King BTHP projectile in the 5.56 Mk262 round, although they loaded it a bit hotter than you'll find in .223 commercial loadings. They are using these rounds in various special built "sniper type" rifles and in DMRs. I believe 500-600 yard kills have been made with SPRs and DMRs in Iraq. This is far beyond their fragmentation range.

I'd consider the carbine to have an effective fragmentation range of about 150 yards with these rounds. 20" barrels would push that out to around 200 yards. Obviously, they can be deadly far beyond that.

The reading library has a thread with gel shots of the entire Federal line of 5.56mm ammo from fragmenting FMJ, ballistic tip, soft point, and bonded HPs. This includes bare gel, wallboard, steel and glass.