Slightly OT: ATF requirements for premises?

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havanatrader

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I couldn't find a better place to ask this question, I know that several of you here are gunsmiths, hence FFL holders.
I intend to start a gun shop out of my home.
I realize that a couple hundred of you are already copy and pasting your well worn "don't do it" replies, but I won't be dissuaded; I think I can fill a niche market and make it worthwhile.

The question I haven't been to Google an answer to is: What does the ATF require as far as the premises? Is there a requirement for a steel gun safe? Do you have to have a separate entrance for the gun shop part? I'll have minimum retail traffic. My county and neighborhood have no pertinent restrictions regarding home businesses.
I want to find out if I'm going to have to modify my home, and if so, how much? It's a typical ranch style house with locks on the doors and has windows in every room. I'd like to store what little firearm stock that I'll maintain in a locked closet in the interior part of the home (not adjacent to an outside wall).
I want to have my ducks in a row before sending the app in.

Thanks!
 
On Line

havanatrader: All your Information is on-line.
I can give you all the details but you will be better served by reading it yourself. They spell it out, and it will not take you the rest of your life reading piles of bureaucratic BS
 
Hi, neophyte1 and mrmeval,

Can you give me a pointer to the federal security rules for dealers, either by USC or CFR? I am having a hard time finding them.

Jim
 
Federal Securities

Jim Keenan: Sir; I refer you to 'mrmeval' site offering.
The ATF rules are all there.
Knowing them as I do may cause interpretation issue's.
 
I guess I am computer illiterate. I can't find anything on gun store security - bars on windows, steel or reinforced door, safe, alarms, etc. Here the state has a separate license and the state police require those things, but I don't see where Federal law does.

Can you give me a better pointer than just the BATFE web site?

Jim
 
You need to really think this out. If you have a family then you are very foolish to even think about doing gun sales out of your house. I had a friend in Atlanta that was doing the exact same thing. One day a customer, who had bought from him before, decided to rip him off. My friend was shot in the face and chest. The guy then went up stairs and shot his wife twice in the chest while she was in the bath tub. Their young daughter hid under a bed or she would have been shot also.
Luckily both survived their wounds. The guy could have just as easily killed all three.
 
You open it, and I'll buy from it.
I'll always support a THR'er.

My favorite gun shop is run out of a shed behind a fella's house in Winfield KS. He has only been shoplifted from, never robbed at gunpoint or anything violent. I don't foresee there being any trouble in running a small gun shop (with a few guns) out of an area seperated from the living quarters of your home. It would behoove you to keep the inventory low and make it so darned hard to break in to that nobody would do it. The shop in winfield seems to be a 7 foot tall, 4 foot by 10 foot safe where he keeps all his guns at night. There ain't no way anyone is getting in there easily.
 
Sirs; The atf agent that did my pre-license interview/inspection was satisfied with a gunsafe/rsc. She also said with an 01 lisecne you must have &keep regular business hours, with an o7(manufacters liscense) the shop doesn't have to be open to the general public. Most of my business is thru 2 hardware stores, 1 sporting goods, & a pawn shop. jim

If I could type or spell worth a dang, I wouldn't have been turning wrenches & screwdrivers for the last 30 years. pleese foregive me grammer polize
 
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Iron Bars locks

Jim Keenan: Sir; I completely missed your point.
The BATF requires that you have a SAFE; designated for the 'Business.'

It CANNOT be used for storing anything other than Customer, or Potential
Customer merchandise.

Your Private Guns will he housed in another SAFE. Period

Now to answer your Question?: I think?

I personally haven't seen or read where
the BAFT has established any type of Property Designated Security [excepting the safe.]

I'm really hesitant to entertain any other observation.
Interpretations Sir

Craig
 
Hi, Craig,

I still cannot find anything in writing that says the dealer even has to have a safe. I know agents "recommend" it but I can't find anything that says you have to have one or you can't get/keep your license.

(Common sense says you should have good security; I am talking strictly about what is REQUIRED, IN WRITING, by federal law or regulations in order to have a dealer FFL.)

P.S. I got an e-mail pointing to a section on having security devices, but the sender didn't read far enough as that section applies to having trigger locks and the like for customers, not to security for the store itself.

Jim
 
Thanks for all of the informative replies. I previously read the pertinent USC and CFR sections, then re-read them since some of you said the answer lied within them, and couldn't find anything that specified means of storage or security.
Perhaps there's an BATFE rule that spells that out? I can't find anything. I also cannot find anything stating that regular business hours must be set and kept. That may also be in BATFE rules outside of CFR and USC.
 
Jim Keenan

Jim: Sir; sorry for taking so long to respond.

I cannot find again the "safe" thing from that BATF
I read the [18 U.S.C. 921 [a] [34] again and again

Thats not it. I checked NC law in case I had superimposed the two.
The 'basic' premise as I read it now.

Something safe and secure: [paraphrased of course]
If anyone has more information "please advise]

Again; sorry
Craig
 
I think some of that sort of info may come from state or local laws or regulations, or even off the top of a BATFE agent's head. Some states and cities have very stringent security requirements, including barred windows and doors, steel doors, safes with four combo locks, etc. Sometimes, it is required that handguns be locked in the safe overnight, not left in display cases. I seem to recall that one city requires that all handguns be kept in the safe at all times; one and only one gun can be removed at any one time so a customer may look at it, then the safe is locked until it is time to put that gun back.

But I have not found anything in Fed law or regulations about any such security measures.

Jim
 
Jim

Sir; I will try again to find what "I" thought "I" read.
The new reading has a vagueness I don't feel comfortable with.
I have intended to apply for the license; and spent a good deal of time making sure that the 'i' were dotted the 9's were not 6's; was/am quite comfortable in my reading until now.
I stopped by our Local Sheriff's office, and bless his heart; he wouldn't see me.
Clearly stated in the requirements; local sheriff will be notified.
I am not sure where you are in your "paper-work"
Everything you need is at the BATF site. These folks selling kits are getting paid for what the BATF will send for FREE.
 
A possible concern may be that BATF will have right of access to any portion of the dwelling, or home equipment, that contains some element of the business. i.e. if your home PC is used for some portion of business record keeping than it is potentially subject to review, same for a file cabinet that is used for both personal & business related materials, or inventory items contained in an interior space.

If you want to keep them out of the private areas of your home, keep all business related materials and hardware in designated "store/shop" areas reachable via a dedicated external access point, so they don't have to pass through "private" areas to get there.

Nick
 
I just got a dealer license to run a gunsmithing shop out of my home.
The ATF rules were kinda vague but my investigator said the premises had to be what she deemed to be "secure". In my case I have 1 room with a deadbolt on it and a safe inside (my investigator insisted on it) dedicated solely to my business. I also have to abide by the township's rules they set for me to be able to open the business. In my case since my township doesn't want lots of traffic in and out I can only do pickup and delivery for other retail shops and work through mail. The township also said I cannot have any ammunition in the same room as my business is in.:banghead: The ATF said they do have a right to search my entire house and personal possessions if they want because the business is in my house. I also had to send blueprints of my house and the property to the ATF. You can keep your personal firearms in your shop if you are working on them but they must be tagged as personal.
 
The only legal requirements is that you place of business be compliant with state and local laws. The ATF has the right to inspect you business premises without warrant - a good reason not to use your home.
 
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