Oh Lord is this a doozy of an article

It is too bad that this guy had a bad experience shooting but that is not what bothers me the most. It could have been better handled but I don't think anything would have helped much with him. I have done things I have never done before but I don't think I have quaked, shivered, and twitched as much as this guy. A few weeks ago my step-son let me drive his big farm tractor. I was nervous but not shaking in my boots. The first time I drove a car out on a busy highway as a teenager I was nervous but not terrified for Pete's sake. My 5'2" wife never fired a gun until she met me. She jumped the first few times but after that it was no problem. She doesn't shoot by the way except once in a very long while.

"I squeeze off shot after shot, jumping at the sound of each one. Some people feel powerful with a pistol in their hand; I feel terror." I did not grow up around guns, didn't own one until I was 21 as a matter of fact. But God in Heaven please tell me that this guy is not representative of the men in this country now-a-days. "Every few seconds I violently twitch as another gun is fired; even with ear protection the noise is deafening."

I am not trying to pretend that I am Mr. Brave. If faced with a potential lethal threat I will try to run like a jackrabbit if possible. But this guy redefines manhood in a very bad way.

Sigh.

This has nothing to do with manhood. I will agree that it's amazing to all of that anybody, male or female, would be that unnerved. But dang it, it is not a male rite of passage to be able to shoot. Some men hate guns. Some women are dead on shots and like big bore handguns and rifles. Some men love guns. Some women hate 'em. Can we please get past this manly-man thing regarding this poster????

IF the essay is the real deal and the guy really did have exactly the experience he wrote about (please not the capitals on the word IF), then both he and the RO did things badly. He should have asked for help. The RO should have watched him and have given it, asked for or not.

And we on this list should keep our eyes on the issue, which is NOT manliness.

Springmom

Sigh, Springmom I didn't say shooting was a right of passage, but I beg to differ, this guys reactions and actions do have to do with manhood. It is a small sign, at least I hope it is a small sign, of the end of civilization as we know it IMHO. I also said his experience could have been handled better, that is for sure but I really don't think anything would have helped this guy. I also don't care much that he dislikes guns except as one poster put it he has an audience for his dislike. If he had simply said, that's OK, I'll pass on the shooting, thank you very much and gone on his way, no problem from me. Instead from what he wrote I almost expected him to break down crying. That has to do with manhood even if you don't agree.

And, as springmom pointed out, unless there is a typo, the Winner of the Rifle at Camp Perry Marine Champ: Carlos Hathcock Trophy is a woman,

Julia Watson GySgt

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=2113&eventID=9&awardID=2

So, if he had been a she, would it have had to do with womanhood?

Springmom

The guy has a flair for dramatic writing. Before we judge too terribly much about that:

havegunjoe said:

It is a small sign, at least I hope it is a small sign, of the end of civilization as we know it IMHO.

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My point has been, that his flair for the dramatic could have been just as positive as it was negative, had "our" guys actually been helpful toward a new shooter.

Havegunjoe said:

That has to do with manhood even if you don't agree.

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Go ahead then, define manhood for me. Dollars to donuts you'll give me some antiquated cock-and-bull '50s standard of the rugged, hairy-chested mountain man who never cries and fears nothing. I'm afraid of heights and spiders creep me out - should I go ahead and turn in my penis?

At least the guy was man enough to admit that he's afraid of guns. Perhaps if the ROs had bothered to start him off with proper instruction and something other than a freaking .357 Magnum he would have walked away with a different point of view.

Let's see you get into the cockpit of a jet airplane or a Formula One racer and try driving it around without any further instruction than "press this pedal to go, use this to steer." Think you might be a tad nervous?

You're right, just because you've been shooting for years doesn't mean this guy shouldn't be every bit as comfortable his first time with gunshots going off all around him in a giant echo chamber while he tries to keep hold of a .357.

Let's see you get into the cockpit of a jet airplane or a Formula One racer and try driving it around without any further instruction than "press this pedal to go, use this to steer." Think you might be a tad nervous?

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Nice try...

But by the author's own words he was a bit more than "a tad nervous". He was terrified. Big difference.

And regardless of what some women in modern society may want to believe men and women ARE different. There are standards of manliness that most men understand and most women never will and one of them is men don't quake in their boots and lose their water just because they're doing something unfamiliar - especially if what they're doing isn't inherently dangerous. They suck it up and deal with the situation (and yes if a woman broke down in tears society would forgive her a lot quicker than they'd forgive a man in the same situation). And even though author of the article did exhibit a bit of courage by actually firing the weapon he lost all credibility with me based on the tone and obvious anti-gun agenda of the article he wrote.

I wonder what other inanimate objects he's terrified of?

Werewolf said:

But by the author's own words he was a bit more than "a tad nervous". He was terrified.

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Dunno if you noticed, but he seems to have quite the penchant (as most media do) for dramatics and exaggeration. I somehow doubt that he was literally on the verge of drenching his boxers.

I'd consider someone handling a gun (especially a Magnum) without any instruction to be "inherently dangerous" but I guess Cooper just cooked up all those rules for fun one night after a few too many beers.

Kevin108 said:

I wonder what other inanimate objects he's terrified of?

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I wonder what other inanimate objects have been demonized and loaded with negative emotional connotations in the media for the past few decades? The majority of these guys are completely unfamiliar with firearms outside of sensationalist news reports. It's not as if actually getting some trigger time with a .22 under the guidance of someone who knows what they're doing might do a tiny little bit to change their minds about guns all being fully-automatic cop-killer assault weapons.

And regardless of what some women in modern society may want to believe men and women ARE different. There are standards of manliness that most men understand and most women never will and one of them is men don't quake in their boots and lose their water just because they're doing something unfamiliar - especially if what they're doing isn't inherently dangerous.

Click to expand...

*Ahem*

I'm sure this isn't a personal slam, as personal slams aren't permitted here on THR. Still, let me point out that I'm a stay at home mom, husband is the breadwinner, we're about as traditional a family as still exists in this country, and I most certainly do understand that men and women are different. It's just that I understand the following as well:

1) fearlessness is not masculine: conquering your fear and going on and doing something anyway is masculine; and

2) conquering your fear and going on and doing something anyway is also a mark of womanhood as well.

You want to be a grownup, you learn to conquer your emotions and do what you have set out to do. Man OR woman.

Springmom

Always good to see the other side. I'd be at a disadvantage not to. This seems to be a weekly paper and must have a respectable circulation.

Posting it on THR is a service to all of us as the article represents a view alien to our way of thinking. I wouldn't have seen it otherwise!

Being printed shows the piece indicative of what "they" deem worthy enough for publication. That's good because the effort isn't well done and gives me hope for the future.

Count me as one more happy to see The High Road living up to it's name.

I'm going to update my reaction to this post.
I've a few things to say:
A.) I think this guy is stirring up a hornet's nest for fun, but I'm not going to let that blind me.
B.) It appeared to me that, while the range officer did a good enough job, he could have done better, and I think he should have.
C.) For a beginner of any type, a .357 Magnum (when in .38 Spl. and when sufficiently large) is small enough to train on, provided there is close instruction! The range officer should have given that instruction to him, because I think it would have been pretty obvious that the fellow was green.
D.) I think I need to write this guy again, just in case he wasn't looking for trouble...

Let me sum it up.
Our side:
1. He called us names
2. um...um

His side:
1. He was not given any instruction as a virgin shooter
2. He was teased (in his mind)
3. All the people at the range wanted to discuss was shooting intruders
4. He was bothered by the noise and the act of shooting/loading the revolver

So what can we learn from this?
Writing him a letter about how he called us names (flannel wearing bearded...) will accomplish nothing. Lets take this as a learning experience to help educate other virgin shooters. Double up ear protection, start with a small caliber, basically "hold their hand" and explain things, ask questions to verify they feel comfortable. If you don't there will be more people afraid of shooting off their fingers and toes and potentially soiling themselves.

Manliness?

Nah.

I think it's more about ADULTHOOD.

Somehow the "LOLcats" picture with the caption, "Go cry, emoboy" comes to mind.

When emotion trumps intellect, we've lost adulthood.

There's been a trend for some time to breed the adulthood out of modern man, producing a society of "children" -- immature persons over the age of majority -- who can't think for themselves, and for whom emotion is king.

I have a daughter who's 31 years old. She's an adult. She's had to deal with all manner of things from which many her age are sheltered. She has "taken on the world." She doesn't whine or faint. She's an adult.

I have a daughter who's 19 years old. She's a child. It's all about her. She's a drama queen. There is a very good chance that she won't be an adult for years yet.

The older one (31) has been more mature since she was 15. Go figure.

The guy who wrote the piece under discussion isn't writing as an adult, rather more like a drama-queen adolescent.

Never mind manliness.

It's about adulthood.

My first introduction to shooting was with my father and
his brother at the old home place. They set up some tin
cans and showed me how to load the .22 rifle, where the safety
was and where the trigger was and to put the sights on the
can before squeezing the trigger. And don't let the gun point
atanything you don't want to shoot. Safety first second, third.

If my introduction to shooting was blasting cardboard pictures
of home intruders with a magnum in a dungeon, I wonder if
I would be a dedicated shooting enthusiast today?

Carl N. Brown said:

If my introduction to shooting was blasting cardboard pictures
of home intruders with a magnum in a dungeon, I wonder if
I would be a dedicated shooting enthusiast today?

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You know... that actually makes a lot of sense to me.

I started out on my great-grandfather's knee when I was four or five, with an ancient little Crosman BB gun not even the size of a Cricket, shooting old tin can lids that Grandpa had strung between the apple trees with fishing line. There was no pressure, and every time I'd get frustrated or bored at not being able to hit the lids, Grandpa would pull me close and help me aim, and *clang!* I was having fun again.

Before too long I was making my own clangs just about every time and having more fun than I'd ever had before. Great-Grandma forgave me for all of the apples I killed before she got a chance to turn them into applesauce or preserves, too.

From there, I got my first "real" gun from Dad, a Savage 64F .22, and continued to learn firearms safety and plink tin cans in a fun, no-stress, no-pressure family-and-friends environment.

I think that, had I been introduced to the shooting sports by being taken to a big, loud indoor range full of strange people and noises that hurt my ears, and having to shoot a gun too big for me with a bunch of "hot shots" looking on, I wouldn't have any interest in guns or gun culture today.

Thank God I was raised as I was.

I can't really fault the article as the author did make some valid points. The first time someone handed me a S&W revolver I was amazed at the weight and feel of the weapon. I could barely hold it in one hand but I suppose that the gun wasn't really balanced for the grip of a six year old. The gentleman also underscores the fact that firearms are more dangerous that either seat belts or fire extinguishers. He's made a good point there. I'm betting that that's the primary reason criminals would shy away from having one pointed in their direction ...

I wish i could contact the gun club with this and tell them that every new shooter is an opportunity.

I wonder if the plaid wearing bearded gentlemen were fabricated. I mean come on, this is (I know what place he's talking about) a large gun store and range just off the strip in Vegas. I doubt there are a ton of plaid wearing bearded redneck locals nearby that would shoot there, my guess is it's not the cheapest place to shoot, or buy things, it's Vegas. I bet any locals would be at a different shop. They obviously play to the strip tourists.

From what I can tell, this place gets all kinds, ESPECIALLY international customers from all over the world, especially Asia. They rent full autos there, if it's the place I'm thinking, so I'm surprised he didn't railroad the culture based on the machine guns on display and for rent over there, and only whined about apparently deafening and traumatizing .38 special loads. At any rate, I don't envision that place as a bubba shop. If anything, you'd probably get a lot of foreigners, fanny packs, hawaiian shirts, rock tshirts, black leather harley types, and hip hop / gangsta types, and middle class/middle aged dudes like me or your neighbor, compared to bubba types, if you were going stereo type at all, I'm just saying.

I'm just not buying that angle of the story, and think it's complete BS. Guess it doesn't matter, but I just don't believe him at all, aside from his experience or views...

Check this place out, I think this is where he went, if he went just off the strip: http://www.thegunstorelasvegas.com/

This is black tactical if anything, it's not a bubba shop. Look at all the links on there check out all their autos and racks and racks of 'black' handguns/rifles, etc. Everyone's wearing black shirts in the video, not plaid.

The map is on the main page, near a lot of casinos.

Check out the JAPAN VIDEO link at the bottom, they shoot a bunch of full autos on it, it's pretty cool.

Karz

Oh, I wanna go to Las Vegas now. What a great selection of full-autos.

Of course, if they were going off, I could certainly see why he thought "the noise was deafening". Indoor range? Full auto? Yeah, that makes some sense.

It'll be interesting to see if any of us hear back from him.

Springmom

From the beginning I was a Fudd-Zumbo-Petzal sports shooter
(well I did have a fascination with military history and wanted
some military guns as collectors items). It took indoctrination by
two city police detectives, county sheriff, corrections officer,
former ONI officer, and others, to convince me that owning a
gun for personal protection could be a good and proper
thing to do. I was really squeamish about keeping a gun
for the the purpose of shooting another human being, even
though I shot squirrels for eating, put down a rabid skunk, and
killed a copperhead near my uncle's barn, and felt good about
that.

wow, this one is still going.

My first introduction to shooting was with my father and
his brother at the old home place.

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It seems to me that the majority of folks who shoot and enjoy it start this way. People who are taught to shoot by family or friends that they know and trust, who are responsible and safe shooters, who give them proper instruction and guidance tend to be life long shooters who enjoy our sport. Those people who received no help or instruction, or even worse, bad instruction, or got it from some one who was irresponsible or used “too much gun” to teach will often walk away with quite the opposite feeling from the first group. I do not think that this is just a coincidence.

Now there will be some folks who are gunnies at heart and truly enjoy shooting no matter what. No matter how bad the instruction, or what type of cannon you place in their newbee hands, they will keep coming back for more. My friend is an example of this type. At 24 years of age he had never shot a gun. He had always wanted to, but no one had ever taken him shooting. So I volunteered. After instructing him on safety, range rules, and operation of the pistol (a Ruger 22/45) he started shooting and loved it. He took to it like a duck to water so when he wanted to shoot my USP45, I said sure. He shot that fine as well. Then he wanted to shoot my 357 (a 4” Taurus Tracker). He was shooting 38’s in it when he ran out of ammo. He went into my range bag and matched up the numbers on the gun (375) with the numbers on the box of ammo (357), as I had instructed him, loaded up and got quite the surprise. He had grabbed the box of full house hunting 180 HP’s that I had tried last range session and just left in my bag. He then had a flinch that took 5 or 6 range sessions to remove. I (we) are just lucky that I guy like him likes the booms and recoil, and will keep shooting.

I stood at a gun shop sales counter in Kalamazoo Michigan a couple months go and watch a non gun owning woman handle a .44 mag and she asked the clerk "Does it kick a lot?" he said "No not really" I should have spoken up but she was there with her boyfriend and I think he was in a drooling daze looking at her with that piece.

irritating

Since this thread's been drifting around, I'll chime in.

"Mystique". The mystique of cars and guns does something to a fair number of American males. Apparently, there are those guys that in their minds, ownership conveys competency.

I started in driving race cars some fifty years ago, and meddled around with that happiness for almost twenty-five years. I got into the Sports Car Club of America, where you start out in their system with entry into a couple of their "Driving Schools". That's not really a training school as such. It's a deal where you show it's safe to let you out there with other drivers, wheel to wheel. You prove you're not stupid, you're not a rolling road block, nor do you run over other people.

I've heard guys in the pits at their first school, griping about the indignity that THEY should PROVE anything. And then they get lapped in the first few laps of practice, 'cause they talk faster than they drive...

Same with guns. Some guy's at the range with his Loudenboomer, shooting patterns instead of groups. If some mild soul makes any suggestion, the response is often along the lines of, "It's my danged gun, and I know what I'm doing and you leave me alone!" And then this same doofus gives dumbtail advice to any Little Lady who ever asks him a question about guns.

Macho mystique stuff. These are the sort of guy that I describe as when they sit down, their brains get cramped.

Basically, Arfin nailed it. Adulthood has zilch to do with gender. Guns and cars have no gender. They're just artifacts. And Danica Patrick is not exactly some Little Lady you'd walk up to and patronize. When it comes to guns, I suggest not patronizing my wife, either--and she doesn't need my help.

Art