Defensively Shooting the S&W Model 10...

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Stephen A. Camp

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Hello. I "learned" recently from a gent who emailed me that "the revolver was obsolete" and no longer a viable defense option and that I should not be suggesting otherwise on my site!

Just for grins, today I took a used Model 10-6 HB that I purchased a while back to the range and timed some practical-type drills. I am not suggesting that how much these are or are not relevant to effective defensive shooting, only that this is what I did.

SWModel10-64inNRACap1.jpg
This is the revolver that was used. It is DAO and all shots were fired double-action. The stocks are from Eagle and are their Secret Service style.

Ammunition used was handloaded and represents (to me, at least) a round comparable in recoil to Remington's 158-gr. LSWCHP +P. It averaged just under 900 ft/sec from this revolver based on a 10-shot string over the chronograph screens which was the usual 10' from the muzzle.

Drills from the low-ready as well as presentation from the holster were done and were timed with a PACT timer, damned ol' merciless thing!

All shooting was done two-hand hold and standing at varying distances, none farther than 12 yards.

SWModel10-64indrawfiretarg1.jpg
This group was fired starting from the draw with "hands up" in the traditional "IPSC Surrender Position". As can be seen, it was repeated 6 times. Average time was 1.40 sec per shot including reaction time when the buzzer sounded.

Other drills included the traditional "Mozambique", Mr. Higginbotham's "Handgun Controllability Drill" as well as drawing and firing one "rescue shot" at about 4 yards.

In short, other than a more limited ammunition capacity than most autoloaders, I remain unconvinced that a quality DA revolver gives up much, if anything in the real world. I am equally convinced that in the matter of reloading, given equal practice, a shooter can reload the semiauto faster. (At least this is the case for me.)

Today's exercises were not intended as any sort of training regimine but I do think that they are "doable" by most shooters and can provide at least an idea as to how viable a medium-power, medium-frame revolver is or is not for them.

For those who might be interested, the detailed report is here:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/shooting_the_Model 10 Defensively.htm

Best.
 
Hi Mr Camp:)

I'm glad to see your report.
Recently I bought a timer and have wondered just how much my advancing years (70 in a few months) have slowed down my shooting. Mostly I can't do less than second and a half a shot, in most drills.

It's hard to beat an old S&W Model 10.:)
I bought this one in 1960 for off duty carry.
I lost count at ten thousand plus rounds fired.
Mod10targetclose.gif
 
More wisdom from the erudite and sensible Mr. Camp!

I work in a gun shop, and ALL DAY LONG, I get people whose first priority is capacity. Never mind accuracy, reliability or feel...if it doesn't hold at least 13 rounds (in the "clip..." when did they start making Mauser-action pistols again?), it's junk to them.

Plain fact is, the overwhelming majority of self-defense shootings are over in 2 shots. If I'm going to need more than 5 or 6, I brought the wrong iron to the fight.

I've been drilling with my 66 lately, and although I'm just a hair slower, I can still group nicely, and under duress, I can put them where they need to be. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.
 
Awesome post, and awesome link. Thank you!

I am a young guy (26), and I own five revolvers (including a 10-5) and not one self loading pistol.

I came to the same conclusions you have shown here; that the revolver is very much alive and well for defensive shooting. Software, not hardware...

But, just more preaching to the choir.
 
Would love to read that email where this 'gent' suggests this. Given that there are several 7shot .357s out there, and many ccw and classic autoloaders carry maybe 1 over that, I don't think he's got a leg to stand on.
 
I read an article in SWAT Magazine today about the snubby is inadequate as a defensive gun.

Author used his own gun, which he said he's "owned for years". The recoil hurt him, he had a hard time with the double action trigger pull, and would pull the gun way to the right during rapid fire. Oh, and he couldn't manage a speedloader in any reasonable amount of time* (and said that anyone who thinks they can is "kidding themselves").

I gathered from the article that the author may have owned the snubby for years, but he hadn't shot it much, if at all.

An automatic is like a car. Easy to run, ubiquous, nearly anyone can use one. The revolver is like a motorcycle: not for everyone.



*With my 629 and an HKS, I can reload the weapon in three seconds, give or take. Not as fast as an autoloader, but faster than most who've never tried it assume is possible. It just takes a little practice and a little patience.
 
The Model 10's are still great revolvers. Nice shooting and shooting that is not that difficult to reproduce. I would not hesitate to use a revolver in a defensive situation. If I'm at "war" or a LEO, I want a semi-auto and it would probably be a Glock.
 
Over time a fair number of news reports concerning all kinds of shooting incidents and/or gunfights have been posted on this forum. I have yet to see one where speed reloading was a critical issue. Of course there was one in New York City where an officer emptied his Glock, quickly reloaded, and emptied a second magazine - only to discover that the individuals he was shooting at were unarmed.

A pistol with a large magazine capacity has obvious advantages within a military environment. I am not sure - given the usual level of training and practice - that this is true in law enforcement and civilian situations. On the other hand the revolver's inherent reliability may be an important attribute. Some have been declaring the wheelgun to be obsolete since 1900, but the platform is still with us.
 
Hmmmm, I've been carrying this old well worn (as you can tell by the scuffs and dings) model 10 for a lot of years. Although it's not my every day carry gun most days now, it still gets time on my belt. Aint real pretty any more but it's still tight, fairly light, very easy to conceal and shoots where I point it. Don't even carry a half dozen speed loaders, just 6 extra rds in a 35 mm film canister.

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I find the model 10 especially easy to shoot well, myself. Their weight if sufficient that one can shoot 158 gr lswhp +P's all day pleasantly, the trigger's are generally very nice, and all that I have owned have shot right on the money quite accurately. What's not to love? I will agree that the airweight j frames tend to take more practice and discipline to shoot well, and to me are unpleasant with +P loads, but I can still shoot them decently with standard loads and some concentration. The model 10's are the 1911's of wheelguns though--you hardly have to even try to shoot them well.
 
Hello. I "learned" recently from a gent who emailed me that "the revolver was obsolete" and no longer a viable defense option

What IDIOT told you that? LOL! Love my old M10. It was new in the early 60s, but still puts 'em in a tight little cluster. It's tight as a drum, times perfectly, smooth as silk trigger, I hit what I aim at, what more could you want? I don't carry it, prefer snubs when I carry a revolver. Lately I have an infatuation with a certain stainless Ruger SP101. But, I'll never ever let go of the M10. The SP101 is easy to shoot, not as accurate with it of course, but accurate enough for defense. I can put 5 shots into 2 1/2" at 25 off bags with its best loads and hit 5 out of 5 six inch plates off hand at that range if I take my time and in DA. Yeah, it's a little unpleasant with 140 grain full house magnums, but it's controllable and I'm betting more unpleasant for whoever is on the other end of it.

I often carry a .38, also, but there's just something about a 140 grainer stepping out of a 2.3" barrel at 1335 fps that gives me the warm fuzzies. :D
 
It is my understanding that the late Jim Cirillo used a Model 10 when he was on the NYPD stake out squad. There are few LE officers who have taken out as many goblins as he did. The Model 10 worked for him!
 
The "in-duh-vidual" wasn't a cop from AK, was it? There was one who was a relentless troll on several boards and would inject his anti-revolver bias into every revo discussion that came up, even in the "Revolver" sections of the boards. Just would not leave it alone. I think he's been banned from most of the major boards at this point. Hey, if you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em. But trust me, your opinion is not so valuable that I "need" to hear it.

But it's not surprising. Just search this forum for topics with "revolver" in the title, and you'll be amazed at the number of Rambos out there who "wouldn't consider going out in public with less than 50 rounds at the ready"...

Some folks just have exceptionally warped views of reality.

-- Sam
 
Some people say they wouldn't take a revolver into a "military" situation.

Hell, I would. If you have a halfway decent rifle and a reasonable supply of ammunition for it, the odds of you actually needing the sidearm are about the same as the odds of you getting attacked on the street.

Most grunts don't carry pistols anyway. What would you rather have? A pistol and two mags that you may or may not find a use for, or three more mags for your rifle?
 
The "in-duh-vidual" wasn't a cop from AK, was it? There was one who was a relentless troll on several boards and would inject his anti-revolver bias into every revo discussion that came up, even in the "Revolver" sections of the boards.
It usually comes from the fact that...wait for it...
...flame on...
...they can't shoot revolvers.

Most of the anti-wheelie guys belong to the spray-and-pray school of shooting, where most folks who shoot revolvers tend to be deliberate and accurate.

A DA revolver is very unforgiving of sloppy trigger control when rounds start hitting the target. With proper training, it's a marvelous and accurate weapon. The problem is, most folks with pistols these days have only the most cursory (if any) training, and when they practice, they're just reinforcing bad habits.

Then they blame the hardware.
 
One interesting observation.

Someone I know who has attended many pistols classes (dozens in last 20+ years) ranging from Thunder Ranch and Gunsite to local PD classes, in his experience/observation shows that revolvers are not as durable as people thinks.

In his experience, pistol classes where students shoot a lot (about 1,000 rounds or more in few days) those that use revolvers have much higher rate of inoperable weapon some time during the the course. In his opinion typically one and maybe two out of 10 students who use pistols will have inoperable weapon during the class where as 3 or 4 students who use revolvers will have inoperable weapon by the end.

Not saying anything is wrong with revolvers, just expressing an observation.
 
My observation and experience is exactly the opposite; revolvers tend to continue to function under conditions that a semi will not and are more durable. I have been very impressed with the reliability of many autos, especially Glocks, but I have seem Model 10's that were flat out abused, never cleaned, with untold rounds through them that were still serviceable.
 
I too have not had any problems with any my revolvers over the years.
They all have many rounds through them over many years.
Where they do seem to break down is when a lot of shots are fired in short period. Its common to fire 300-400 rounds in an afternoon in some of these classes.
 
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