Why don't you have your CHL?!

Strat,

Have people in the UK started to figure out that your weapons laws are doing the exact opposite of what they were intended to do? Just curious.

The crime rate is pretty low here and I don't feel it's necessary to be armed all the time. Secondly, I find it a little galling that I should have to ask "permission" to defend myself.

Have people in the UK started to figure out that your weapons laws are doing the exact opposite of what they were intended to do? Just curious.

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I'm not sure, bulgron, the level of brainwashing here is very high. Most people are simply ignorant.

strat210957 said:

I'm not sure, bulgron, the level of brainwashing here is very high. Most people are simply ignorant.

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That's really too bad. I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but disarming a population to the degree that England has been disarmed can not possibly lead to anything good. What's more troubling is it appears that one of the few "crimes" that gets your authorities riled up is defending yourself.

I really have to question the motives of a government that's this determined to make its population helpless. I don't know what your situation is, but if I was you I'd be looking to get out of there before the bad things really start to happen.

I fear for England ....

I'm probably preaching to the choir here

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Absolutely, not very sure what to do about it though.

RoadKing Larry wrote

I'm not trying to be offensive but thats just silly.

My my fingerprints were taken and placed "on record" (FBI if I remember right)numerous times while I was in the Navy for my security clearance and background investigation. In the ensuing 25+ years not once has it come back to haunt me.

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You got printed for a TS clearance, not for a license that allows you to do something the constitution already says is your right.

I see a difference in those two.

I live in the DPRK.

Wife doesn't like the idea...

ANyone got an idea how to convince my wife who has an unfavorable opinion of guns that I <ahem> need a CCL (and new pistol to go with it!)???

Q

Off topic

strat210957 said:

Absolutely, not very sure what to do about it though.

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Sorry for going off-topic here.

Strat, you should probably view the possibility of someone taking advantage of the disarmed English population in the same way that we here in California view the possibility of an earthquake. That is, you need to have a "disaster preparation" plan and associated gear on hand so as to be able to respond to an emergency, if one arises.

This isn't to say that one WILL arise. But as the saying goes, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

The last time England was this disarmed, you ended up dealing with an external threat in the form of Nazi Germany. This time around, I rather expect the problem will come from inside your own country, either via Islamic extremists or by an out of control government going despotic on you. But that's just my 10,000 foot view of the situation.

Anyway, if I was you I'd start putting together a bug out plan and the gear needed to implement that plan. Since you're on an island, I'd be thinking about a boat that's capable of crossing the channel. But then that assumes you're close enough to the coast that you reasonably might be able to reach it even during a state of civil unrest.

Sorry for blathering on about this. I'll shut up now. Good luck to you....

Taking into consideration things such as the fact that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal [and that] the 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high", it would make sense to me that it is safer for the general population to have an encounter with an armed citizen than a police officer.

CA however has some pretty strict carry laws and while I believe all states should adopt the Vermont carry laws, which incidently contribute to their low crime rate, I've unfortunately had my right to defend myself legislated away.

Source:
"Are We 'a Nation of Cowards'?," Newsweek (15 November 1993)

Why,studies have shown that if I carried a gun I would be approximately eighty-six million times more likely to use it in a fit of blind rage on my elderly neighbor and her blind grandchild than I would in legitimate self-defense! Or so the powers-that-be in my state believe.

I would like to get my MO or FL permit,but I don't really go to Missouri all that much.

Let me add that in Vermont, where there is no permit required to carry concealed or otherwise, in the category of Violent crimes from 2004-2005 they ranked as the 48th lowest, followed by Maine and North Dakota.

When it comes to robbery, they are 49th, followed by North Dakota. I guess the bad guys know not to try to rob someone in a state where anyone can be armed.

Interesting crime statistic. I was just looking up crime figures for Vermont, where they are a green state, like Alaska. Population-wise they are very similar, in 2005 Vermont was pop 623,050 and Alaska was 663,661. They are both green states, yet in the category of Violent crime Vermont was 48th in a ranking of the 50 states, Alaska however was 8th.

In fact when it came to forcible rape, Alaska was #1, but 36th in the robbery field. Vermont was 42nd in the rape category, and 49th in robbery and in 2004 it was 50th in the auto theft category.

So you can leave your keys in the ignition in Vermont and you aren't going to have your car stolen, but if you visit Alaska make damn sure you keep your wife by your side at all times.

Very interesting to see the only 2 green states have such a radical difference in crime.

I have mine, so I didn't vote. I undertook the costs in time, money, and privacy to obtain my CHL in part so that if I am ever forced, again, to defend myself and my family that the prosecutor will not be able to allege that I violated the law out of self-imposed ignorance, negligence, or inability. My fingerprints and DNA are already in "the system" from my time in the military, getting a driver's license (one fingerprint only), and some professional licensing (not DNA).

I carry all the time because criminals don't make appointments.

ECS

Alaska goes through periods of time when it is daylight out all the time, and other times when it is dark out all the time. I suspect this contributes the crime problem up there. I also know, from my visits to the state, that around the Anchorage area anyway they have a bit of a drug problem. Again, this is worsened by all the darkness during the winter.

But the larger point is that firearm laws do not affect crime rates one way or another. It doesn't matter if the law is about banning guns or allowing carry. From a statistical point of view, it doesn't change anything.

However, from a personal point of view, it can change everything.

Firearm carry is a civil liberty. Since liberal firearm carry doesn't change things statistically one way or the other, the default should be to allow it.

i voted "other", but option #3 is prolly the closest. right now i am going through school and saving up money for a wedding, so i just cant afford to get either the license or a gun to go with it. i plan on getting it before the end of '08 though

i chose "other"

cuz i caught a little case

No money for it and no pistol that can be concealed easily. Full size, Full size, revolver with a 6 1/2 in. barrel.

I live in Los Angeles County, California.

Other:
Well as I am a college student and spend 80% of my time on campus a CHL could only be used at times when I was not going to be on campus at all between leaving home and returning.

Also I don't have the money right now to spend on a concealable pistol and classes and other things.

Maryland.. Need I say anything else?

The only reason I don't have it is because I went to the CCW course on Jun 20th, and the state hasn't gotten around to processing it yet.

I am at the hardest part of getting my ccw, waiting for the paperwork to be processed. I am just about at the 2 month mark, about one more to go.

Oregon is not a "Shall Issue" state for non residents (only for residents), and since I am a Nevada resident, I doubt I could get one (though one of these days I'm going to have get around to asking the local sheriff under what circumstances they will issue a CCW to non-residents). Also my home state (in which I live for only 1 or so months out of the year) doesn't have a reciprocity agreement with Oregon, so getting one there isn't very useful either. Basically, I'm caught in a bit of a catch-22. This is further complicated by the fact I do not have the funds to buy a pistol yet anyway, and I would want to have it for a few months and practice with it before applying for the CCW in the first place.

I think I'll probably end up waiting until I graduate college and start living at my permanent residence (which will be wherever I can get a job) before getting a CCW.

My State (Illinois) doesn't trust me, but I have a Florida permit