Bad day with new shotgun, or "I got Remy 870 blues"

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grimjaw

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A few weeks back I sold the only shotgun I ever owned, a Remington 870 Wingmaster w/2 3/4" chamber in excellent condition. I did this because I thought it was too pretty to shoot, and I knew I was going to drag my first shotgun through hell and back

So on Saturday I went out and bought my first new Remington 870, and Express version with a 7-round capacity, 18" bbl, bead sight, plain Jane. I got some snap caps to practice cycling it, and got a box each of Federal and Winchester 2 3/4" 00 buckshot to chew through at the range today.

So I didn't have any problems cycling it last night while practicing with the snap caps, and was ready to go this morning with only unpleasant expectation being recoil.

Imagine my surprise when after the first shot (which wasn't as much recoil as I expected) I couldn't cycle the action. There were holes in the target, including one the size of the shot cup, but short of smacking the buttstock on the ground I couldn't get it to eject the spent shell. The action bar lock also acted like something was blocking it; I couldn't depress it. I don't know if that's normal after firing live rounds? The same thing happens when I drop the hammer on an empty chamber. After having damaged another gun (a bolt action) by forcing the action open, I was hesitant to do it with this one. I didn't want to just put it away, either, so I unscrewed and disassembled the magazine tube, got the other rounds out, pulled the barrel off. I couldn't pull the shell out with my fingers, so I stuck a cleaning rod down there and jabbed it out. I was so put off by that whole experience (gun, dead on first shot), I shot other guns and put the 870 away until I could get home to take a better look at it.

The one fired shell did not look bulged or damaged, and had what I and three other people took to be a normal primer hit. The buckshot was right about where you'd expect to find it at 15 yards, and the barrel looked fine inside and out. The gun went back together OK and now cycles snap caps again without any problems.

Any ideas? Was I just too nice to the gun and instead I should have smacked the buttsock and forced it open? I know the owner's manual says something of the sort for certain rounds. Honestly, I feel better having not done that, because today I'm certain I could take it back in to the store and have them look at it without worrying about them saying I busted anything.

Any comments or advice are appreciated. I won't be able to get it to the range again until next weekend, but I might be able to run up to the hill and blow through some rounds after work this week.

jm
 
No advice, but I know that feeling of disappointment. My first spent shell out of my first shotgun wouldn't eject either. Had to knock it out with a rod just as you did. It really sucks when that happens.
 
what guage and what length of chamber and what length of shell did you use?

i had a 12 guage magnum express not to long ago.
action button was incredibley hard to operate, tight tolerance right next to lots of powder residue.
Hard to eject/feed new rounds in. size did not matter, i believe its a result of bidinging or excessive fouling in the action.
And with mine the magazine cap liked to loosen up on its own, sometimes the barrel would move forward a quarter inch. That i believe was pulling the shell forward out of the extractor ring.

Just really clean it and lubricate it. I used rem oil for lubrication, perhaps using something from outers would be far far better.
 
grimjaw,
One question is about the ammo you were using. Were you using reloads or factory ammo?

Quite often, improperly reloaded hulls will jam inside the chamber. If the brass doesn't get completely resized it will stick inside the chamber.

I've had cycling problems with the Express models, in the past, due to the stamped parts having burrs on them. :banghead: The last one I owned was an 870 Express Super Mag and it had burrs on the shell interceptors that kept ammo from feeding from the magazine to the receiver to get pumped into the chamber. I sent it back to a Remington repair center twice and sold it for a Benelli Nova.

The Wingmaster's internal parts are finished (have the burrs ground off of them) and you just don't hear of anyone having cycling problems with a Wingmaster. However, as you stated, they're nice looking shotguns and nobody wants to paint, stratch, tape, etc. the finish.

Be sure that the chamber is clean before firing it again. Some factory greases/lubricants can cause some hulls to stick. Also, check the chamber size to see if it's a 2 3/4" ONLY or if it accepts 3" ammo. Otherwise, try some different ammo and see what results you get.

Good hunting, Bowhunter57
 
I have had the same problem, mostly when firing slugs. It does suck. The recommendation from several people here on the forums was to take some ultra-fine steel wool, wrap it around a cleaning brush, put it into the chuck of an electric drill, and polish the chamber of the barrel.

I did this and it improved things a lot.

I don't know what the problem is with the 870's, but Remington ought to know by now that this is a common enough issue, and do something to fix it.
 
Bezoar and Bowhunter57, it was a brand new gun, I mean right out of the box new. Got it at the store yesterday. It's both 2 3/4" and 3" chamber, and I was using factory (Federal) 2 3/4" 00 buckshot.

I'm hoping it's just a tight chamber that needs a little polish then, and that's more encouraging to me that then thing broke on the first shot. :eek:

jm

ps. If I'd read up a bit, I might have seen this post from Lee (thx Lee)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2620167&postcount=10
 
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I've had the same problem with my new 870 express mag. However I have found I only have this problem with the cheep bulk packs of winchester 12 gauge from walmart. I has since started buying remington loads and have not had any problem what so ever shooting both game, target, slugs and magnums.
 
If you didn't clean it before shooting try doing that. There might be some grease on it from when it left the factory that needs to be cleaned off first.

ETA: Sorry, just saw you found the post from Lee. Hope that fixes everything.
 
Key words, IMHO-

"my first new Remington 870"

And the likely answer is- CLEAN IT! And pay partiular attention to the chamber area.

Remington puts a brown sticky preservative (some call it cosmoline, I don't know if it is or not) on their new guns to protect them in shipping and storage until they are sold. If you will RTFM (read that fine manual) which came with your new gun, I think you'll find instructions there to clean it first thing to remove the preservative.

So, are you cleaning it yet? 8^)

It might be an ammo problem too, some brands just don't combobulate well with certain shotguns. One of my 870s gets all persnickity over Fiocchi's light target loads in the orange hulls, for example. Runs everything else just fine but not that load, the fired hulls stick in the chamber just as you described.

So, 1)Clean it well and 2)if the problem persists, try a different brand of ammo. Chances are good one or the other will clear up your problem, and if in the event the issue persists, send it back to Remington and let them hone the chamber again. But don't get discouraged, all sorts of things have teething problems now and again. It just seems like that's one of the more regularly seen problems these days, and generally a really good cleaning will fix it.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

ETA: Oops- and I just saw your edit that you'd found the 'clean it' posts previously. Sorry for the added guilt trip here.

So- are you cleaning it yet? 8^)
 
Not just shotguns, either...The Mossberg ATR-100 (.30-06 bolt gun) I bought a couple of years back, while it looked clean on a casual glance down the barrel, I decided to run a couple of patches through there first.

Those patches came out with some almost invisible, but very sticky 'goo' on them.

Several more patches with Hoppe's #9, a few with CLP and then Butches Blackpowder Bore Shine got the goo out.
 
I'm with the "clean it!" crowd. :D

I bought a brand new 870 in June. I picked up the "clean it" tip on this forum prior to buying the gun, so the first thing I did after buying it was go out and get a cleaning kit and clear all that gunk out of it. First time I took it to the range, I fired 50 rounds of target loads out of it and didn't have a single problem with it.
 
My 870 Express has done just what you describe on two occasions. One was with Remington Gun Club reloads and the other was with Fiocchi paper shells. It is a royal pain in the butt when it happens, but so far it hasn't happened with any "regular" ammo, like Gun Club factory loads, Winchester AA, etc.
 
870 Blues

I wrote down in another thread last week about the same problem I also had with an 870 Express. I talked to my old Air Force CATM boss about it and he told me to get one of these 12ga "Flexi chamber hones" from Brownells and hone the chamber. All this is is an attachment you put on a drill and you just run it back and forth till it's mirror smooth. It just so happens my old Air Force CATM shop had this exact same problem with some military Mossberg M500's that they received a while back. Instead of demilling these barrels they ran this chamber hone in the barrels and it fixed the problem. I shot 300 rounds yesterday after I honed the chamber of my 870 Express and I didn't have any more problems with cases sticking. Apparently on some of these mass produced barrels there are some very tiny "rings" or tool marks left in the chambers. This is where the term "rough chamber" comes from. When a fired case expands against these tool marks inside the chamber they can sometimes stick. Is it as smooth as my old wingmaster? Not quite, but one thing I'm thinking about doing smooth it out is taking some valve grinding compound from the auto parts store, placing a little on the action bars, cycling the action back and forth till it's smooth, and spraying some gun scrub inside to clean the whole mess out.
 
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870 Blues

I wrote down in another thread last week about the same problem I also had with an 870 Express. I talked to my old Air Force CATM boss about it and he told me to get one of these 12ga "Flexi chamber hones" from Brownells and hone the chamber. All this is is an attachment you put on a drill and you just run it back and forth till it's mirror smooth. It just so happens my old Air Force CATM shop had this exact same problem with some military Mossberg M500's that they received a while back. Instead of demilling these barrels they ran this chamber hone in the barrels and it fixed the problem. I shot 300 rounds yesterday after I honed the chamber of my 870 Express and I didn't have any more problems with cases sticking. Apparently on some of these mass produced barrels there are some very tiny "rings" or tool marks left in the chambers. This is where the term "rough chamber" comes from. When a fired case expands against these tool marks inside the chamber they can sometimes stick. Is it as smooth as my old wingmaster? Not quite, but one thing I'm thinking about doing smooth it out is taking some valve grinding compound from the auto parts store, placing a little on the action bars, cycling the action back and forth till it's smooth, and spraying some gun scrub inside to clean the whole mess out.
 
Just checking back in. She's been cleaned inside and out, including brushing the chambers with a long, bronze bore brush attached to a power drill. It *helped* but it is still hard as Hades to get it to extract fired shells. Maybe I just need to drill on it for half an hour with brake cleaner. :(

Same as before, though. Chambered but unfired shells pose no problem in extraction. Feeding hasn't been a problem at all.

jm
 
Some of the guys at my skeet club are have extraction problems with the steel based Federals.
We THINK that the steel doesn't "spring" like the brass based hulls, in other words, it expands when fired and stays there, kind of form fitted to the interior of the chamber.
Having said that, the fact is we're not sure exactly what IS happening, but we do know it doesn't happen with other brands of ammo.
 
My 870 Express (NIB, 1999 or 2000) had the same problem. It would "lock up" on a fired round. I could clear it by holding just the forestock and jamming the butt on the ground.

It happened several times. I brought it to a gunsmith, and he replaced a part. I no longer have the work order, so I don't know what part it was.

Point is, there was actually something wrong with the gun, not just a cleaning issue. I'd clean the heck out of it and try again, but if that doesn't work, skip the home remedies (sanding, grinding, polishing, bending, poking, heating, honing, etc.) and take it back in. If you try something on your own, you may void a warranty.
 
Never trade/sell a Winmaster for an Express model. You would have been better off picking up some plastic Excpress furnature and putting it on the Wingmaster.

That said, I'm in the same boat as you - stuck with a new Express that I'm unhappy with and would really like an old, beater Wingmaster.
 
Is the bolt lock(not sure of the proper term) dropping out of the way after firing?

Look at the bolt from the side of the gun--you'll see a silver piece on the top that locks into the barrel extension----that should drop down after firing----so the bolt is free to move back.

I had a 20ga Express that would stay locked up due to this---a good cleaning of the whole bolt assembly---and a little sanding with emory cloth cured the stickin problem.
 
rugerfreak, I believe it is. Again, the action cycles normally if you dry fire it or use snap caps. Winchester seemed to eject a little easier than Federal (at least I didn't to use a rod to get spent Winchester shells out). I can see that action is coming back a little bit but it feels to me like the shell is stuck, not that something is blocking the action. I'm still leaning towards the chamber being rough.

jm
 
I've seen this with new 870s and 8/10 times it is with a magnum. 10/10 times it is dry as a bone or covered in the rust preventative they spray on it at the factory.

Now mine is a 40 year old Wingmaster TB with 250,000+ rounds through it without a hitch; except for a tightly chambered barrel. Most factory ammo I never problem, but most reloads were stiff to chamber and damn near impossible to extract. I discovered two things: One, progressive presses do not do a good job resizing. Two, I had a tight chamber. I had a friend mic. the chamber and he found it to be 0.002" greater in dia. than the AA's it had always been fed. It is probably an extreme example, but I bring it up for discussion.
 
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