The Tactical 30-30 Lever Action Rifle

1. if you need more than six rounds and there are fewer than 5 bad guys, you're doing something wrong.

2. working the lever is just as fast as a semi auto because you don't disrupt your sight picture any more than recoil does.

3. a 30-30 has way fewer protuberences than an MP5, or M4 does.

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1. You never miss? Never ever? While under pressure or with adrenaline pumping?

2. Recoil on my carbine length AR is negligible. There is no more sight disturbance than there would be with a 30-30.

3. it also has less capacity, is much slower to reload, and is slower to operate


Most of the time a lever action would be fine...... but they don't supplant semi-autos for 'tactical' purposes.

Holy dug up old threads Batman.

The thread may be dug up but it still holds true. Lever actions can be used effectively when semi autos cannot be had just look at what happened to Black Bart!!

At the risk of saying whats already been said: (Long thread to wade through)

You would simply be amazed at how many 30-30 and .44 Mag lever-guns you could shake out the trunks of cop, Sheriff, and HP cars in any rural area of the country.

Out in the country, they are often preferred over .223 AR's due to much better auto-body performance, dispatching very large road-injured farm animals, etc.

Unless you are expecting human-wave attacks of farmers, a 30-30 or .44 Mag carbine will handle "Tactie-cool" in the country just fine, and in many cases, much better then a .223.


rcmodel

Eventhough this is an old thread many of the arguments don't change.

Gunsmiths everywhere know lever actions inside and out.
A marlin or even a winchester can still be had for around $200 in used good shape. Ammo is your only added expense because you don't need 12 30 round magazines stashed away in a closet for when they ban standard mags again.
They throw the brass into one pile about 6 feet away instead of into a parabolic arc somewhere between here and the next time zone - this is a real asset to anyone who wants to shoot much with rising ammo costs because reloading saves $$$.
I have found that I can acutally hit stuff with them, which is more than I can say for most AK's I've shot (AR's and FAL's have also shot well for me though).
Ammo is available and is likely to stay that way. You don't need to stash 7000 rounds for them because of a fear that imported ammo will stop coming in - several domestic manufacturers produce ammo for them every day.
The .30-30 is a well proven and reasonably versatile cartridge.

A .30-30 Marlin is on my wish list right now - I plan to work a trade for one in the next couple weeks.

This also brings up the man vs. rifle mentality.
I have seen my dad hit running deer through the neck with one shot from his old 99 Savage. In spite of all the rounds I have fired in practice with all the guns I have owned, I still don't think I could do that with any of the semiauto rifles I have owned. In a head to head fight against a guy with an AK, the guy with the AK would probably lose to my dad.
But at least he would have a full 30 round magazine to give him that warm fuzzy feeling while he was wondering how that old guy managed to get a shot off so fast...

BTW - Didn't Cooper also advocate the use of lever actions as defensive rifles?

Yes, he did!


rcmodel

Does anyone by chance remember, or have a link to, an article by David Hackworth titled, "Only Hits Count?"

I think that if a semi-auto is unavailable that this is a better choice than a lever action:

Uses AR mags so faster reloads, and pump action is arguably faster than lever while also retaining sight picture.

Those 7615's are actually pretty nice; I think they would be a great alternative to a lever action for self defense purposes. That particular stock is awful looking though; the comb style looks waaaaaay better.

I like the 7615, too, but would prefer this version for a "practical-tactical" rifle:



And this is one of the better zombie threads, to be sure!

May this thread never die.

Do they make the 7615 in anything but .223? I know being able to use AR 15 mags is a big plus for the rifle, but I'm not a fan of the caliber.

Gunsite used to offer a Tac Lever Rifle course and their guys were actually tweeking some rifles for defensive purposes.

here's another alternative to the traditional-urban-assault-black-scary-looking-high-capacity-defensive-rifle...a mix of several ideas...remington 760 or 7600 in .30-06 loaded with 55 gr Remington Accelerators; lord knows there are enough of these slide actions in PA due to the heavily wooded hunting areas...they seem to be iconic in the ole Keystone State

Stirring the pot

My vote: a tactical 1894
in .357 mag or .44 mag.

Re: Slide actions

Wierdly enough I pulled a Gun DIgest out of the book case at random last night to turn off the busy brain and fall asleep with. It was the 1988 edition with a gussied up TZ-75 on the green cover.

In it was an article by one William A. Rucker called "A Split Personality Pump". In the article he discribes purchasing and messing with a Remington Sportsman of the later Model 76 type.

He wanted a .30-06. He wanted to do regular hunting and he wanted to use it for a home defense gun against bears and two legged vermin.

He did not like the slick stock so he painted the stock with Black automotive crinkle paint. He wanted help for his old eyes yet wanted to be able to make those up close shots as well as the foot ball feild or two shots as well so he mounted a WIdefield 1.75 - 5 power variable on it. WHen it needed to be used as a Tacticool gun he wanted more than the four shots the standard mag held so he bought both Eagle and Ramline plastic ten rounders for the rifle.

Only bad thing about the article is that he appears in the photos done up like Frank Gorshwin in one of the worst StarTrek episodes ever to illustrate the Split Personality thing.

I had long thought the 760 series would make a good back up rifle for LEOs, especially those that trainied on the Reminton 870 shotgun. I believe they made a carbine with an 18.5 inch barrel in one model or another. That and ten round magazines would be pretty tacticool if you ask me. You could even screw up the looks and accuracy of the gun by hanging lasers, lights, and IR detectors on the barrel if that blew your skirts up

Oh BTW the good Col. Cooper refered to revolver cartridge lever actions as Boston Specials. There were folks that took carbine courses with those and .30-30s in some rifle classes. Folks shot qualifying scores with them. What more can you say?

-Bob Hollingsworth

Love me a zombie thread....

Oh BTW the good Col. Cooper refered to revolver cartridge lever actions as Boston Specials. There were folks that took carbine courses with those and .30-30s in some rifle classes. Folks shot qualifying scores with them. What more can you say?

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As I recall, in Col. Cooper's lexicon, a short .30-30 lever gun was called a "New York Special" and a 16" .44 Mag. lever gun was referred to as a "Kansas City Special."

You recall correctly.

---

Erik - who'd rather face an incompetent with an EBR than an shooter with a leveer action.

Eventhough this is an old thread many of the arguments don't change.

Gunsmiths everywhere know lever actions inside and out.
A marlin or even a winchester can still be had for around $200 in used good shape. Ammo is your only added expense because you don't need 12 30 round magazines stashed away in a closet for when they ban standard mags again.
They throw the brass into one pile about 6 feet away instead of into a parabolic arc somewhere between here and the next time zone - this is a real asset to anyone who wants to shoot much with rising ammo costs because reloading saves $$$.
I have found that I can acutally hit stuff with them, which is more than I can say for most AK's I've shot (AR's and FAL's have also shot well for me though).
Ammo is available and is likely to stay that way. You don't need to stash 7000 rounds for them because of a fear that imported ammo will stop coming in - several domestic manufacturers produce ammo for them every day.
The .30-30 is a well proven and reasonably versatile cartridge.

A .30-30 Marlin is on my wish list right now - I plan to work a trade for one in the next couple weeks.

This also brings up the man vs. rifle mentality.
I have seen my dad hit running deer through the neck with one shot from his old 99 Savage. In spite of all the rounds I have fired in practice with all the guns I have owned, I still don't think I could do that with any of the semiauto rifles I have owned. In a head to head fight against a guy with an AK, the guy with the AK would probably lose to my dad.

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That's because your dad understands what a rifle is for: delivering a devastating blow that ends the hunt or fight! It's not about suppressing "enemy troops"! Sure, a rifle with 30 round capacity is convenient, but I'll take a trained man for my team any day!

There is something to be said about not having to mess with magazines.

I went to every gun shop I know in my state looking for a 357 or 44 lever action with a 16 inch barrel. I found nothing under $400.:banghead:

I know there is a model 94 Trapper with the short barrel, is there a marlin with the 16 in barrel

In it was an article by one William A. Rucker called "A Split Personality Pump". In the article he discribes purchasing and messing with a Remington Sportsman of the later Model 76 type.

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I remember that article! It struck me as making a lot of sense.

IMHO the only thing the slide actions have over a Marlin or Winchester levergun is the easily replaced detachable box magazine. However, for vast majority of civilian defensive gun uses where the gun is actually fired, the 6 rounds that a 336's or 94's magazine holds will be enough. When was the last time you read a report of a civilian defensive gun use which involved reloads? They are pretty rare.

Gratuitous Marlin 336 pics:

What stock mag pouch is that? (The OD one)

heres another option like the 7615... the remingon model 14.. you can get it in many different calibers...i have one in .25

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_model_14

The model 14 was made from 1913 to 1934. The model 14 was produced in .25 Remington, .30 Remington, .32 Remington, .35 Remington calibers. Another version, the model 14 1/2, was produced in .38-40 W.C.F. and .44-40 W.C.F. calibers. Over 126,000 model 14's were made. In 1935, the model 14 was redesigned and renamed. The Model 141 was produced from 1935 until 1950. Over 77,000 examples were produced in three calibers, the .25 Remington having been dropped from the line.

What stock mag pouch is that? (The OD one)

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It's an Eagle Industries Shooter's Stock Pack.

wow I feel like such a nerd for knowing that Glamdring was Gandolf's sword, LOL. Love Tolkein though! Anyways, I own a Marlin 1895 GS in 45-70. It has xs ghost ring sights and an xs lever scout weaver rail. I used to have a trijicon reflex on it but took it off as i felt it wasnt necessary. I am originally from West Virginia so all the hillbilly/mountain machinegun jokes apply here, lol. But to be honest ive used it on deer and what not and it is light, handy, accurate, and damn LETHAL!! I feel that there is a difference between an offensive weapon and a defensive one. As a rural defensive weapon i can think of nothing better than a lever gun. Other "black" guns would do just as well but in a defensive case, I cant see them being any better. Jeff Cooper used to have students shooting clay birds with a 30-30. He felt strongly in the usefulness of the LA. He wrote alot obout it in his own great opinionated way, lol. The only advantage the shotgun has over the LA only applies if it is being used for an offensive role, and that is the ability to load it with the weak hand while it is still in the shoulder. But in defensive roles a reload isnt a concern. If you have to reload in your living room at 3am against some crackhead stealing your dvd player, youre done no matter what youre carrying! Remember we arnt out looking for trouble and I seriously doubt a squad of crackheads is gonna be after you. Of course in shtf or eow cases things may be different. In an urban setting I wouldnt use rifle calibers due to overpenetration.