Good article on the new HK 45....

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My thoughts on it are that it is WAY overpriced. With a $1200 retail price, it had better be the end all be all of polymer pistols. In the article is states that the HK 45 has average groupings of 2-3" at 25yrds. Thats fine, but you can buy a new Sig P220 for around $800 and it will shoot 1.5-2" groupings and it doesn't need that little rubber ring. It has a better overall decocking system, has a robust alloy frame, and has 30 years of reliable service. Also, the magazine on the HK 45 sticks out quite a bit more than a Sig P220 and for those of us that carry a pistol on the belt for a living it will snag and rub on anything and everything. Personally, I think H&K priced this pistol out of the LE market and now that Congress is paying more attention to new weapons contracts, it has no chance in the US military. H&K has a long history of making under the table deals to get contracts without having to compete with other firearms makers.

There's no revolution here in firearms development, just the illusion of it and the need for a business to keep selling the "latest and greatest" new product. I think I'll stick with my Sig 220s for my taste of German fare.
 
Its one thing if you don't like the pistol but lets try and be somewhat impartial here.

My thoughts on it are that it is WAY overpriced. With a $1200 retail price, it had better be the end all be all of polymer pistols.

But who pays retail for a gun? I know I don't. My USP tactical retails for easily over 1K but I picked it up new for $800.


In the article is states that the HK 45 has average groupings of 2-3" at 25yrds. Thats fine, but you can buy a new Sig P220 for around $800 and it will shoot 1.5-2" groupings and it doesn't need that little rubber ring.

Assuming the numbers are true and not simply shooter error, you can also run the HK through all sorts of gunk and abuse and it will likely be more reliable than the Sig simply due to tolerances. Life is about trade offs.


It has a better overall decocking system

Sheer opinion. I can carry my HK C&L because of its inferior decocking system.


has a robust alloy frame

I've seen more frames fail in sigs than in HKs.


and has 30 years of reliable service.

What about the service of the USP has been unreliable?


Also, the magazine on the HK 45 sticks out quite a bit more than a Sig P220 and for those of us that carry a pistol on the belt for a living it will snag and rub on anything and everything.

Fair enough. Though I don't think that the extra 3 milimeters will be the end of the world. Plus, if you are using the flush fit 220 mags, you only have 7 rds. If you are using the 8rd mags, the fit is a wash due to the extended floorplate.
 
I concur with Hauptmann.

The rubber ring on the barrel is kinda scary...I have a hard time believing it will last thousands of rounds. Maybe its cause I havent seen it done before. I like the looks and HK has mades great weapons. I just think I would lose or destroy the rubber ring.
 
It only holds ten rounds. It's huge and it only holds ten rounds. It looks like a freaking sweet gun. HK's are too expensive unless you kow where to buy. Still $1200 retail is way more than HK said this thing was going to cost. I guess they need to get their money back for all of the R&D they spent on this gun since the goverment shat all over the .45 project. We'll have to see if it's worth it.
 
Impartiality

First I don't think there's much (or any) room to fart on reliability between HK's and Sigs.

I own and have shot X's thousands of rounds in my sigs. Not a frame failure yet. I have lots of friends who've shot just as many in their HK's and no frame failures... Again no contest.

I think COMEANDTAKEIT had the best point in regards to the negatives. This looks like a full size gun (It is) and it ONLY holds 10 rounds. We've been spoiled with the Springfield and it's hi cap.

I think most people's original perception of this is off due to the hype from HK itself and all the HK-philes who've talked it up. I don't think this is through any particular failing in the gun itself, merely the perception of failure.

My biggest grip is the looks. The front end of this think looks like a wannabe space gun in a crappy 90's made for TV science fiction "epic" trash flick. makes me think Ice Pirates meets any sci fi with Dennis Hopper. :evil:

Makes me ill...

I like the USP family. Love the P7. Not so fond of this one yet. Of course if I shoot it and love it that could all change.

After all, isn't that the point of guns; The bang part?
 
I wouldn't worry about the O-ring on the barrel, I have 4 extra O-rings for my USP45 Tactical and I worry more about them dry rotting just sitting there in the bag than I worry about the original one that is still on the barrel, several thousand rounds through it and it still looks like new.

I have a MK-23 on the way and it uses an O-ring too, they really help with accuracy.
 
My biggest grip is the looks. The front end of this think looks like a wannabe space gun in a crappy 90's made for TV science fiction "epic" trash flick. makes me think Ice Pirates meets any sci fi with Dennis Hopper.

I'd like to see that one.

I can't comment on the service life of USPs, but I am a Sig armorer with about 10 years of experience. FLETC(Federal Law Enforcement Training Center) has hundreds of Sig pistols in their armory that range in age from the early 80s to the present. In this armory, as well as the Federal training center in Quantico Virginia you will find hundreds of Sig pistols that have tens of thousands of rounds through them, some of them near the 100,000+ round count. Most of them go through standard service treatment every 5-10 years which usually only consists of swapping out springs and a detailed cleaning. As long as the magazines have been cleaned and taken care of, any of these high mile Sigs will reliably feed any ammo I can run through them for testing and will usually maintain 2" groupings at 25yards unless there is obvious damage to the barrel or lock up. Ever now and then I'll come across a Sig that has seen a lot of serivce on the southern border and the barrel to slide lockup is loose due to sand wear. Sure, out of this many pistols you'll have some with problems, but they are few and far between. This is quite impressive considering how badly police officers treat their equipment. I've lost count how many Sigs I have serviced.

I think I am qualified to comment on the capabilities of the Sig pistol. Anyone here qualified to comment on USPs?
 
The rubber ring on the barrel is kinda scary...I have a hard time believing it will last thousands of rounds. Maybe its cause I havent seen it done before. I like the looks and HK has mades great weapons. I just think I would lose or destroy the rubber ring.

The O-rings seem to hold up pretty well in my admittedly limited experience with shooting a USP45CT. I believe that pistol came with 4 or 6 replacement O-rings, but it seems like a low wear item (which I know is kind of counter-intuitive considering barrel heat, but I think the rings are actually some sort of polymer rather than pure rubber).
 
I think COMEANDTAKEIT had the best point in regards to the negatives. This looks like a full size gun (It is) and it ONLY holds 10 rounds. We've been spoiled with the Springfield and it's hi cap.

Yes, but you also have to remember how large a grip has to be to have a magazine with 12 rounds. The original USP does, but lots of people complain about the grip. Same with glock and the XD.

I think that most shooters would gladly trade 2 rounds for a very comfortable gun.
 
The new HK45 is very nice, and I'm sure it's a great gun, but I don't find it very exciting. It has all the new fad features, but IMO doesn't really improve on the USP beyond cosmetic and ergonomic tweaks. I'd really like to see HK come out with a true, lightweight, subcompact CCW pistol along the lines of the PF-9 and PPS.
 
HGhk_100207B.jpg


The USP is big. The HK45 looks BIG. No way I would carry something that size. Although, I can't tell if that's a USP compact on the bottom. It looks a little short...
 
But who pays retail for a gun? I know I don't. My USP tactical retails for easily over 1K but I picked it up new for $800.
So why should one euro polymer wunder gun be worth $800 when all of the other euro poly wunder guns go for $500?

HK pricing sucks. Sure, they shoot okay, and they're decently reliable, but so are 50 other guns that cost a whole lot less, only those guns tend to have better triggers and ergonomics.

Same with glock and the XD.
The Glock 21 is a giant pig of a gun. Set the 21 next to an XD and compare the dimensions. The XD is smaller in pretty much every way. The new FNP45 has a 14 round magazine, and it also is much smaller than the Glock's huge grip.

HK missed the boat on this one, big time. I sell guns for a living, and the only way I'm going to sell this overpriced polymer lovechild of Ice Pirates meets Bloaty the Pizza Hog is to hardcore HK fanboys.

Yeah, I can predict this thing is going to be a great seller. :scrutiny: "Buy this HK45, why? Uh... Because it is so awesome. It costs twice as much as these other guns that hold three or four more rounds, are just as reliable, and have better ergonomics. Oh yeah, this $1,200 gun has a crappy trigger, a magazine release that is useable if you can palm a basketball, and uh... a rubber o-ring! Because that little part that wears out makes it almost as accurate as these guns over here that are just as reliable, smaller, and cheaper. Oh, but wait, there's more! It is made in Germany! So you know it is better! Because, uh... H und K totally rocks on Counterstrike! And a Navy SEAL used one, once, or something! Oh... you'll take the XD? Oh... I suppose the HK will just have to sit in the counter some more."

No thanks.
 
Wow, people just seem to not like HK..
Anyways I just wanted to chime in here and make a couple points:
1. +1 for Ice Pirates references.
2. Just because some other manufacturers make a cheaper product doesn't mean that the higher priced item is inferior. It's about choice, and some want HK while others love their XD's and Taurus's.
3. Retail price is only good on paper or the internet. Unless you go to a rip off gun store I've yet to see an honest poular gunstore that doesn't sell anywhere near as high as retail. Most likely it will sell for around $899
Personally I think it will do well with the new wave of .45s coming out after that joint pistol project went south, and HK will continue to sell well despite a growing market along with the competition closing the gap on quality.
 
So Correia, how do you really feel about H&K? :rolleyes:

Seriously, the one thing you didn't mention is that is their ho-hum attitude toward customer service.
 
I'm with Correia on this one as well. HK products are grossly overpriced, and unless you're a fanboy, I personally don't see anything they offer to justify the outrageous pricing. Don't get me wrong, very well made weapons, but huge, ugly, most have horrid DA pulls that I can barely reach for.
I'll keep BOTH of my P220's, thank you very much:neener:
However I'd definately like to handle an FNP45 IF they ever hit the stores.
 
It's around 800.00 cheaper than the polymer pistol I did buy and it still doesn't appeal to me.

But no one has ever confused me with high speed / low drag. I'm more like a 72" diameter lint ball covered with gorilla glue.
 
Fletcher,

the one on the bottom of the pic is a Compact. the bobbed hammer gives it away. not sure why they're comparing the compact with the HK45 unless its just to show the width of the slide.

Bobby
 
.

How this new gun offers anything beyond the USP is escaping me at the moment.

It would seem that H&K has set their sights squarely on the well-monied
'elitist' mall ninja brigade.
 
If you want a reliable polymer .45 that actually fits the human hand, get an XD45. Fantastic gun, larger capacity, better ergonomics, and you can buy 2for what an HK costs.
 
So why should one euro polymer wunder gun be worth $800 when all of the other euro poly wunder guns go for $500?

Because 1) materials and 2) manufacturing. The HK is german made, panzer approved. Don't get me wrong, I like glocks, but they are essentially the tinker toys of the polymer gun world. That has both its advantages and disadvantages. Its easy to work on and replace parts, but it makes it harder to get precision performance.

As far as all of the other polymer guns being 500, thats not the case either. If you want a new 100% german made P99 its gonna run you around $800. Some people poo poo the difference between a S&W P99 and a german one, but its there and noticable.

Of course all of this is moot since HK can charge anything they want to for the pistol. Given that this was designed for the american market I'd say that there are plenty of people willing to pay the 800 to have this pistol because its an improvement on an already fantastic pistol.




HK pricing sucks. Sure, they shoot okay, and they're decently reliable, but so are 50 other guns that cost a whole lot less, only those guns tend to have better triggers and ergonomics.

Now lets be fair. The USP series shoots better than just ok and they are more than decently reliable. A stock USP will out shoot a stock glock due to the engineering of the particular pistols. Given that the HK 45 has an O ring I'm going to guess that accuracy is going to be even better.

As far as the XD goes, its a good pistol as well, but for people that like SA or SA/DA its not an option. As far as the ergos go, has anyone here actually held this pistol? I would hope so since there are plenty opinions floating around. I would look kind of stupid for someone to bash the grip on this HK without having held it.

The same applies with the trigger. Anyone here shot the HK? Then how do you know how bad or good the trigger is.

What I'm seeing here seems to be an HK bash fest thats long on opinion and short on evidence.
 
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