Davo
Member
He's aiming for State Senator next...when was the last time California elected a Repub Senator? He may have just secured his position when Boxer leaves...
Ca Microstamping, AB1471
- Thread starter glockman19
- Start date
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Can'thavenuthingood
Member
All he did was sign the bill the state Senate and Assembly sent him. We beat them last year.
Now its law forever.
Nothing going to change for the better in this state until the gerrymandered districts are reset to something looking normal.
Now for the tweaking.
They also got the lead out of the Condors.
Vick
Now its law forever.
Nothing going to change for the better in this state until the gerrymandered districts are reset to something looking normal.
Now for the tweaking.
They also got the lead out of the Condors.
Vick
kermit315
Member
so, here is my question regarding all of this. what will this do to reloaders, because it marks not only the primer, but also the shell casing. I guess reloading will become illegal.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I suspect you are right.
Now will come on smaller follow on laws to solidify this one;
No tampering (barrel changes, firing pin changes etc) by anyone but the manufacturer
No reloading
No selling of reloading supplies
No possession of reloading supplies.
I gotta say this is one of the worst things I've seen in my lifetime.
For all the trouble some of us have gotten into here on THR for the PRK, California, California etc remarks I truly feel sorry for those of you living out there.
It seemed humorous at the time, but you truly are not living in the United States anymore.
The_Antibubba
Member
If Arnold thinks he has a chance at national office, well, he just ended it. 
Is there a legal challenge to this?
Is there a legal challenge to this?
Chrome
Member
Any of you guys making last minute runs to gun shops on the way home?
Where can I find full text of the bill/law?
Later,
Chrome...
Where can I find full text of the bill/law?
Later,
Chrome...
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
It doesn't kick in til 2010, so everyone will be stocking up.
I wonder if the California Legislature knows that the sale of handguns in California is about to go up 10x.
Ed Ames
Member
It's a slippery slope fallacy to say that reloading attacks will be launched as follow-ons to this law.
Reloading actually *broadens* the investigative net instead of narrowing it, and so helps with the stated purpose of this law.
Let's say you, Sid Citizen, have a microstamping gun. Joe Crazy doesn't. You go to a range to fire off a few rounds. The range polices your brass, reloads them, and sells them to Joe Crazy who leaves them scattered around a crime scene. Your stamps, his crime scene. Bad for you, right? But it's good for the cops.
You become a suspect. They take your gun, run ballistic tests which (hopefully for you) prove that your gun didn't fire the terminal bullets... you are less of a suspect now. So they ask, "How did your cartridges get into his gun?" (they are cops, don't expect perfect shooting jargon from them) You say, "I don't know... I just go to Ed's Shooting Sports once a month to punch holes in paper." "Ed's, huh?" The cops go to Eds, finds out that yes in fact they do reload range brass (or sell it), and there are sales records. If Ed's is in Los Angeles County those records include driver's license numbers even. They have a trail, they can narrow the list of suspects down to people who bought ammo from Ed's. They can cross-reference that with the other suspects they've been looking at. Has the boyfriend ever bought anything from Ed's? You know how it goes.
That's why I don't think you'll see this used as an attack on reloading.
Revolvers, though.... It would be quite Californian to say that revolvers no longer pass the DOJ safety test because they don't leave evidence at crime scenes. That's a more realistic outcome of this law because it doesn't necessarily require additional legislation, just a regulatory redefinition of "safe".
Reloading has already been attacked by other bills such as the ammunition component tax bill that would charge a punitive tax for each component (bullet, primer, shell, etc) used in reloading. Expect new attacks of that sort. They won't be tied to the microstamping measure though because reloading actually helps microstamping somewhat... if you do reload you'll end up making many imprints and if you use some of your reloaded ammo there is more likely to be a recognizable imprint.
Anyway.. don't be too hard on Arnold. These bills have been coming up every year. Arnold vetoed some last year. The problem isn't that he didn't keep vetoing them... it's that the voters didn't do their part. If the legislators had been replaced Arnold wouldn't have been faced with the choice of vetoing the same bill over and over again or going along with the expressed will of the majority. The fault lies not only with California gun owners but with ex-Californians who chose to leave the state instead of fighting and becoming the positive face of gun ownership. When all the good gun owners left, those that remained were either bad gun owners (criminals and nuts) or hiding gun owners. I'm condemning myself with that by the way -- I left California a year ago and part of my motivation for leaving was the promise of fewer anti-gun laws. The first thing I did was to start erecting barriers to ever going back as well... buying products (guns included) that aren't legal in CA, so that even though I still own a house in CA it's unlikely I'll move back there. That's a loss to California's gun owners and in the long run it will be a loss to everyone. Each time we lose a part of the country it is much harder to ever get it back.
Arnold would be FAR better for California and the country than Boxer of Feinstein. At least Arnold vetoed most of the anti-gun bills last time around (perhaps before it was obvious to him that if he kept vetoing they'd just keep coming to his desk). He's not rabidly anti, he's just not as rabidly pro as you'd like. For California that's a major step in the right direction.
Reloading actually *broadens* the investigative net instead of narrowing it, and so helps with the stated purpose of this law.
Let's say you, Sid Citizen, have a microstamping gun. Joe Crazy doesn't. You go to a range to fire off a few rounds. The range polices your brass, reloads them, and sells them to Joe Crazy who leaves them scattered around a crime scene. Your stamps, his crime scene. Bad for you, right? But it's good for the cops.
You become a suspect. They take your gun, run ballistic tests which (hopefully for you) prove that your gun didn't fire the terminal bullets... you are less of a suspect now. So they ask, "How did your cartridges get into his gun?" (they are cops, don't expect perfect shooting jargon from them) You say, "I don't know... I just go to Ed's Shooting Sports once a month to punch holes in paper." "Ed's, huh?" The cops go to Eds, finds out that yes in fact they do reload range brass (or sell it), and there are sales records. If Ed's is in Los Angeles County those records include driver's license numbers even. They have a trail, they can narrow the list of suspects down to people who bought ammo from Ed's. They can cross-reference that with the other suspects they've been looking at. Has the boyfriend ever bought anything from Ed's? You know how it goes.
That's why I don't think you'll see this used as an attack on reloading.
Revolvers, though.... It would be quite Californian to say that revolvers no longer pass the DOJ safety test because they don't leave evidence at crime scenes. That's a more realistic outcome of this law because it doesn't necessarily require additional legislation, just a regulatory redefinition of "safe".
Reloading has already been attacked by other bills such as the ammunition component tax bill that would charge a punitive tax for each component (bullet, primer, shell, etc) used in reloading. Expect new attacks of that sort. They won't be tied to the microstamping measure though because reloading actually helps microstamping somewhat... if you do reload you'll end up making many imprints and if you use some of your reloaded ammo there is more likely to be a recognizable imprint.
Anyway.. don't be too hard on Arnold. These bills have been coming up every year. Arnold vetoed some last year. The problem isn't that he didn't keep vetoing them... it's that the voters didn't do their part. If the legislators had been replaced Arnold wouldn't have been faced with the choice of vetoing the same bill over and over again or going along with the expressed will of the majority. The fault lies not only with California gun owners but with ex-Californians who chose to leave the state instead of fighting and becoming the positive face of gun ownership. When all the good gun owners left, those that remained were either bad gun owners (criminals and nuts) or hiding gun owners. I'm condemning myself with that by the way -- I left California a year ago and part of my motivation for leaving was the promise of fewer anti-gun laws. The first thing I did was to start erecting barriers to ever going back as well... buying products (guns included) that aren't legal in CA, so that even though I still own a house in CA it's unlikely I'll move back there. That's a loss to California's gun owners and in the long run it will be a loss to everyone. Each time we lose a part of the country it is much harder to ever get it back.
Arnold would be FAR better for California and the country than Boxer of Feinstein. At least Arnold vetoed most of the anti-gun bills last time around (perhaps before it was obvious to him that if he kept vetoing they'd just keep coming to his desk). He's not rabidly anti, he's just not as rabidly pro as you'd like. For California that's a major step in the right direction.
Can'thavenuthingood
Member
Can'thavenuthingood
Member
Brady was a big push on this, its coming to a city near you.
Its all part of making gun ownership a hassle and discouraging it to the point of making you an outcast.
May they all suffer from anal leakage.
Vick
Its all part of making gun ownership a hassle and discouraging it to the point of making you an outcast.
May they all suffer from anal leakage.
Vick
Thefabulousfink
Member
Tis a sad, sad, day for California indeed; but don't expect the end of the world or Blue Helmets grabbing shotguns from old ladies just yet. I seem to recall a few years ago this whole "microstamping" craze was attempted with "Ballistic Fingerprinting". A few East Coast states passed laws requiring new guns have their "ballistic fingerprint" registered with the state PD. The talking heads called it "A powerful new tool for the Police" and the Brady folk predicted a new era of gun crime prevention to sweep the nation.
But there was no sweep. Other states simply stood back and watched to see what benefits(if any) would arise; and several years later the Law Enforcement agencies stated that the system was a huge mess, a waste of time, and had yet to lead to a single conviction that couldn't be found through standard police work.
I guess it is CA's turn to jump on the hand grenade for the rest of us. Like with BFP I don't expect many states to jump on the microstamping bandwagon until it has been shown to be more than just a waste of time and money. When that fails to happen in a few years it will be up to the Californians to take control of their legislature and get this law repealed.
But while your suffering under it, maybe push for a lawsuit that demands that all state agencies comply with this law. That will make the CA DOJ really feel the pinch when they have to outfit all their officers with new "Safe" sidearms.
But there was no sweep. Other states simply stood back and watched to see what benefits(if any) would arise; and several years later the Law Enforcement agencies stated that the system was a huge mess, a waste of time, and had yet to lead to a single conviction that couldn't be found through standard police work.
I guess it is CA's turn to jump on the hand grenade for the rest of us. Like with BFP I don't expect many states to jump on the microstamping bandwagon until it has been shown to be more than just a waste of time and money. When that fails to happen in a few years it will be up to the Californians to take control of their legislature and get this law repealed.
But while your suffering under it, maybe push for a lawsuit that demands that all state agencies comply with this law. That will make the CA DOJ really feel the pinch when they have to outfit all their officers with new "Safe" sidearms.
Thefabulousfink
Member
It wouldn't take to much skill to convince the people that cops should be force to follow the same guidelines. "We don't want our fine men and women in uniform carrying UNSAFE firearms." It shouldn't be too hard to pass a measure requiring LE agencies to only use sidearms that have earned a "Safe" rating from CA DOJ. When the opposition says that it'll be too expensive you can say, "Money should not stand in the way of our officers safety." A skilled debater could probably even get them to admit that the "Safety" rating system is worthless.
The fact is that the CA DOJ and Bradyites have made this bed, let's make them sleep in it too.
The fact is that the CA DOJ and Bradyites have made this bed, let's make them sleep in it too.
kermit315
Member
^^I like that idea. wonder what it would take to make it work
paper warrior
Member
EDIT = Nevermind, that'd be illegal...
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Uhhh. Hellooooo. McFly!!
Ever hear of a REVOLVER?
Zundfolge
Member
So is it possible to have someone kicked out of a political party?
Arnold needs to be honest with California, America and his Kennedy wife and just leave the GOP and become the Democrat he is.
Arnold needs to be honest with California, America and his Kennedy wife and just leave the GOP and become the Democrat he is.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Oh just watch. Things go they way they are headed Guiliani will be head of GOP in a couple years and Ahnold will look like Reagan reincarnated.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,709
There, fixed it for you. No charge.
Maryland recently issued a little-noted report. Dollars spent on BFP=$12 million. Crimes solved: zero. I don't think that has slowed them down any, though.
Guitargod1985
Member
This is beyond shameful. I'd like to cede California to <insert Commie country here> and get it over with. But then we'd have all the stupid anti-gun Californians infesting other states with their garbage. I really hope this either gets overturned, or better yet, they see that it solves ZERO crime.
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