California: Banning lead and requiring microstamping since 2007

Four easy ways for criminals to get around the California Microstamping bill:

1). Use a stolen gun
2) Use a stolen gun made before microstamping was enacted
3) pick up your brass
4) Use a revolver.

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Grab a bunch of microstamped brass from the local range and throw it around your crimescene

Buy (or steal) several of the same firearm and swap parts

and on, and on, and on.

Look folks the only point to microstamping is to create a de-facto registration system where every gun has to be officially listed. WE know what the next step is after that. Too bad the antis have had such success demonizing firearms that people just accept any additional burden as a good thing without stopping to consider the rest of the picture. :banghead:

There are 2 loopholes in this that I think can be exploited.

1)

provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the
technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one
manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions.

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The major makers need to get out there now and file patents on all the ways to make this work, nullifying the ability to get it done.

2)

The Attorney
General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and
effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm
from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that
which is set forth in this paragraph,

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Maybe there is a way not even thought of yet where a maker can meet this portion of the law easier than retooling their entire manufacturing plant and keeping this for CA destined handguns only. Car makers do it with emissions stuff.

Lots of research to be done, and there is time.

This is why I argue against any kind of threat of boycott. Give the firearm makers and their engineers and attorneys time to work through this. There may be plenty of workarounds to minimize or nullify this thing.

I can conceivably even think that gun makers lobbyists told Ahnold to go ahead and sign it since there were workarounds in progress already. Shuts up the anti's.

Who knows. I think it's way too early to call this one the end of all things.

Am I correct that the only part of the firearm that will be effected by this bill the firing pin?

If that's the case, will gun manufacturers even have to "retool" anything?

What's to stop a third party manufacturer from making the firing pins and selling them to the gun companies, or to distributors?

If the gun manufacturers only have to pay <$1 per weapon they'll just raise their prices nationwide and not care about this bill at all.

Am I correct that the only part of the firearm that will be effected by this bill the firing pin?

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No that is not correct. The law says the case must be stamped in at least 2 places.

From the bill:

designed and equipped
with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model,
and serial number of the pistol, etched in 2 or more places on the
interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that
are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm
is fired.

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In fact I can see the argument made where the firing pin wouldn't even count since the primer is not part of the case, if the CA DOJ wants to play really dirty on this.

In fact I can see the argument made where the firing pin wouldn't even count since the primer is not part of the case, if the CA DOJ wants to play really dirty on this.

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Hilarious! This may put a whole new twist on things.

No matter how this all unfolds, the worst parts of it are the added expense of firearms and the obviously required registration. I'm sure this was the whole point of the legislation.
Any fears of a crime being falsely traced back to an honest gun owner through range brass or a stolen firearm are pretty much nil, since the microscopic markings inside the chamber of the gun will be pretty much illegible after a few magazines of ammo have been fired. Just be sure to police your own brass for the first twenty shots or so.
Marty

I'm interested to see how stupid this gets.

Some things I've been pondering:
1. Does it apply to the police? Will suck for them if the makers decide to not play this game!
2. If it doesn't apply to the police why not?!?!
3. Will a firing pin now be treated like a receiver since it's numbered?
4. Can you change out your firing pin without being a felon?
5. If not, can you imagine how expensive a "custom made" firing pin with matching number to your pistol is going to cost?!?!
6. What if fair wear starts to remove these imprinting gizmo's from your pistol? Are you a felon for obscuring a "serial number"?

I hope all the makers do like Barrett did and refuse to do any business with the state of Kali. Stupidity should be painful and expensive!

Morons

I forget. Is he a Republicrat or a Democan? I can never seem to remember the important things.

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I think the only difference is in the spelling Standing Wolf..

While I'm not meaning to downplay the dangers of this thing, I really don't see it sweeping the nation. Ballistic Fingerprinting was almost as stupid, and while it's become law in a couple of places, it's never caught on throughout the country. It simply doesn't work. California has become so obviously bizarre that I don't think it's passing microstamping legislation will count for too much in other places without proven benefits, which aren't going to happen.
The really bad part is that if gun manufacturers allow themselves to be cowed by this thing. Hopefully, they'll all catch on to the longterm benefits to themselves on just not doing business in California. I feel sorry for honest California gunnies, but the situation won't last if the gun manufacturers just show a little spine.
Marty

bumm said:

they have to be considering what happened to Smith and Wesson when they buckled under to the Clinton administration.

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You lost me...
Explain to us again EXACTLY what happened to Smith & Wesson when they buckled under to the Clinton Administration?

Please cite your sources because as far as I know not a darn thing of any lasting impact happened. Firearms owners went right on buying S&W products and the company today is even stronger financially than it was in the mid 90's.

For that matter your run of the mill gun owner will continue to buy firearms from gun companies that knuckle under today even if more draconian measures are passed in every single state in the union. Ruger's still in business and if any gun company deserved/deserves to be punished for its treatment of gun owners it is them. Colt is another example of a gun company that treats non-LEO, non-Military buyers as an after thought and couldn't care less what we think or do or even spend with them.

There may be 80 million gun owners in the USA but most of them are gun owners only by virtue of having inherited their grand-daddy's old '03 or have a POS revolver they haven't ever fired in their bedstand. Those folks could care less about restrictive gun laws and probably even applaud them.

The majority of the rest are hunters many of whom would also applaud more restrictive gun laws.

The NRA has 4 million members or so. How many of them ever take the time to write their congress person or their state legislator because they care? If CA is any indication:



Good luck to all of you calling for a boycott. My advice to YOU is NOT to hold your collective breaths waiting for it to happen. If you do all you'll accomplish is to turn your collective selves blue and pass out. All you'll have to show for it is a headache and maybe some permanent brain damage.

California got exactly what it wanted, and California got exactly what it deserved.

There is nothing that happened there that the majority of the state didn't want to happen. The major population centers of California are comprised mostly of feel-good idiots who think that everybody should be saved from themselves by big brother. Of course, this is unacceptable if it affects one of these groups' pet projects like ramming a gay lifestyle down as many peoples' throats as possible as often as possible.

The evil guns are a constant target, and the majority of the people keep electing people like Feinswine, Pelosi and Boxer at the national level. On the state level they elect other crooked spineless politicians who are the absolute bottom of the barrel like Fabian I'm really working for Mexico and care more about their citizens than oursNunez and Mike I need to CCW because I take everybody else's guns and I know they're pissed about itFeuer.

Nothing is going to change in CA unless it's forced by higher court decisions. It would appear that Heller is going to be a huge case for CA, because unless that state is made to comply with the 2A (among other things) they never will. Basically, the politicians, LE and the loony majority there will have to be treated in the same way they treat the other people in CA for things to get right again.

What a disgusting and sad state of affairs.

Does it make Californians feel better to blame the NRA for bad laws passed by their elected officials?

I assume all the complainers wrote letters the their politicians on their own, right? If you didnt write a letter and make some phone calls, then its your fault.

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I did write, and I did call; several times.

I am also an NRA member, and again, I didn't see any effort on this legislation.

If we elected the other choice, we would all be gunless right now. This state sucks the big one.

If it weren't for the well-paying job, the wife's family, and admittedly, the nice weather, we would've left years ago. Maybe it's time to reconsider.

BTW the OP link from the Brady Bunch claims thus:

VICTORY! Gov. Schwarzenegger Signs Landmark Legislation to Solve Gun Murders



WTG CA...

rewritten as:

VICTORY Gov.Shwarzenegger Signs Landmark legislation to waste money and time to not solve anything

If it weren't for the well-paying job, the wife's family, and admittedly, the nice weather, we would've left years ago. Maybe it's time to reconsider.

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Badkharma- it didn't matter that you called or wrote..... they weren't going to listen to you anyway. They are going to push forward with their UtIpian vision (kind of like Utopia but with and "I" thrown in so you know who's going to run the Utopia) no matter what you do. The state is doing a Titanic right now....

I would think it's time to run...er reconsider. There are good jobs other places, and with technology the way it is you can talk to somebody in a video call for the price of a $50 web cam and a free download. The weather isn't that great either..... nothing is worth living under communist rule.

Im confused......
This legislation is for AUTOMATICS right?

why cant a badguy just use a revolver instead? or a knife, or a pencil or a baseball bat or a....

OH WAIT! i forgot! we are talkign about California.... thats the ONLY place in the world were GUNS actually kill people....

it amazes me that someone, who built is entire career making GUN movies, would sign such rubish...

One easy way for criminals to get around the California Microstamping bill:

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Stab, bludgeon, or asphyxiate cop... take cop's gun.

Doesn't this bill make police officers bigger targets?

The funny thing is the retroactive dates. I would think that means that any handgun currently being tested, but not yet on the DOJ approved list, would not be able to be approved without these things.

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No retroactive dates - what you point out is existing law; AB 1471 is just the paragraph marked (7).

In original bills in CA, new text is listed in italic, deleted text is in strikeout, and existing law is plain text. Once they start mucking with it, it's changes to the original bill that get that treatment. When it finally gets to the Enrolled state, it's all plain text - the last version does not call out the new stuff, you just have to know.

So far, if a gun is submitted for testing before a new-feature date, it can get on the Roster with features as required when submitted. In-progress means 'old rules'.

1. Does it apply to the police? Will suck for them if the makers decide to not play this game!
2. If it doesn't apply to the police why not?!?!

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No - police are not restricted to buying guns on the Roster. Those are the rules from the original (useless) law.

3. Will a firing pin now be treated like a receiver since it's numbered?
4. Can you change out your firing pin without being a felon?

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Apparently not like a receiver - from the bill:

The microscopic array of characters required by this section shall
not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's
number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing
number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the
meaning of Sections 12090 and 12094.

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5. If not, can you imagine how expensive a "custom made" firing pin with matching number to your pistol is going to cost?!?!
6. What if fair wear starts to remove these imprinting gizmo's from your pistol? Are you a felon for obscuring a "serial number"?

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All remain to be seen. However, current law allows changes to pistols after one buys them; this law governs how they get on the Roster in the first place. So it's possible destroying all the marking information is entirely legal. Today. It's a long time until 2010, with many opportunities to 'improve' this law.

And someone else asked 'semiautos only?' Yes, this time.

Werewolf was saying
Originally Posted by bumm
>they have to be considering what happened to Smith
> and Wesson when they buckled under to the Clinton
> administration.
>You lost me...
>Explain to us again EXACTLY what happened to Smith
> & Wesson when they buckled under to the Clinton
> Administration?
>Please cite your sources because as far as I know
> not a darn thing of any lasting impact happened.
> Firearms owners went right on buying S&W products
> and the company today is even stronger
> financially than it was in the mid 90's.

A point well taken. Smith & Wesson WAS hurt by the boycott... they had to close a couple plants and lay off something like 400 workers, and the company has since changed hands. A google search of "Smith Wesson boycott" will turn up a bunch of stuff on this, although you have to plow though a number of posts simply stating opinions to get to it. However, it ISN'T in our best interests to hurt gun manufacturers... that's what the state of California is trying to do, and it would be stupid of us to help them.
Hopefully, the major manufacturers with the means to comply (there aren't too many,) will realize that it's in their own best long term interests not to be cowed by this stupid legislation, and notify the state that they will simply no longer do business there, as Ronnie Barrett did.
Marty

If the technology doesn't exist for this, and it probably won't, would it come down to the ammunition manufactures pre-stamping your cases for you after you fill out some type of form, like a 4473 or something, to prove it's your gun that your buying ammo for, pay a fee, and hand over $50.00 for a box of 9mm or .38 special wait 4 to 6 weeks then pick up your ammo? Then guard your ammo so none else get's it. I don't know, my mind has just been wondering about this whole stupid thing. Nobody will do it, nobody will put up with it and soon what's left of the gun store's in Calif. will close up because they can no longer stay in business because the buyer has to pay too much and jump through too many hoop's. Just what the lib's are counting on.

Can anyone explain

why most sheriffs and police chiefs' organizations were in FAVOR of this POS legislation??

They are better than the typical citizens in CA. Nearly every piece of legislation relating to guns has LE exemption.... It's the foundation for a police state. You can't enforce Utopia if the peasants have the same toys the elitists do.

would it come down to the ammunition manufactures pre-stamping your cases for you after you fill out some type of form,

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You'd have to convince the CA DOJ that was a "suitable alternative" as provided for in the bill. I can't imagine you'd ever get that done.

No retroactive dates - what you point out is existing law; AB 1471 is just the paragraph marked (7).

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Thanks. That makes more sense.

NO ONE makes a microstamped handgun right now, who the hell are you going to boycott anyway LOL

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LOL The first company that DOES make one.

Just like i did with Ruger when they did the low cap magazine rollover.

Besides its not who makes one. If a company wants to make one you need to make them aware of what you will do.

Just like we do with companies with "gun free" zones.