Publish CCW listings?

Cougfan2: My point is that we have to be careful. Yes he villifies gunowners but when gunowners start harassing him it looks very bad for gunowners. Especially when the gunowners are harassing others.

The Sandusky Register is still publishing CCW lists for the
Counties in their self defined circulation area in Ohio. The Legislature thought they had closed this loophole but apparently hadn't. Sandusky is geographically near Toledo where an anti-gun activist and her organization are headquartered. I suspect this is more than coincidence.

Yes he villifies gunowners but when gunowners start harassing him it looks very bad for gunowners. Especially when the gunowners are harassing others.

Tecumseh Your point is well taken and personally I would never do what I suggested in my post. Just trying to make a point. Perhaps too bluntly.

I wonder if they have considered that publishing names like this might cause some people to carry without getting a permit?

The Buckeye Firearms Association has some interesting articles in the news archives section, including articles about crooks planning crimes by the CCW lists.

www.BuckeyeFirearms.org

I would suggest that posting the personal information of others is fair but remember what happened to the Roanoake Times author did after he recieved visits and threats by gun owners, he villified us.

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Well in comments to the editor there were some harsh things said about Mr. Trejbal (the writer) - mostly deserved. There was even a "mysterious" package delivered to his house, causing him to call police - false alarm.

But there was enough indignation directed at his publishers, advertisers and the state police that the searchable database was pulled after a couple of days, never to return. In VA we're lucky to have an organization - VCDL - that is a very effective advocate for our citizens' gun rights. IIRC, we now have a law that exempts this data from a FOIA request.

So it takes a lot of grassroots activity to make a newspaper back down on a deal like this. The argument of CCW holders hiding from abusive spouses and witnesses at risk seemed to carry the most weight.

That is nonsense that's not anybody business to know who carries and who don't.

Just trying to make a point. Perhaps too bluntly.

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Don't apologize, your point is valid. The media always acts on its political interests.

If you're not sure, answer these questions:

- Is the paper more likely to list the names of women having abortions, or the names of the "right wing Christian extremists" who picketed planned parenthood all weekend?

- Is the paper more likely to list the names of the participants in the gay pride parade, or the names of the "right wing Christian bigot" churches that protested the parade?

Guns ownership is just one more traditionally conservative value that the papers despise, and their reporting and editorializing reflects that mindset.

But it's awfully entertaining watching gun owners who happen to be liberal on other social issues trying to construct and rationalize a difference for the descrimination between guns and other traditionally conservative values in today's media.

Taking down an opponent who buys ink by the barrel

Justin, is it possible and desirable to make a thread like this one sticky? The vermin keep crawling out of the woodwork, they seem unlikely to stop, and it's tiresome to continually reconstruct repudiations of what they are doing time after time. Just a suggestion.

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Robert-

I'm not sure that having a stickied thread would be that big of a help. Each time this happens, it's a slightly different beast. However, I think that there is a general activist outline that can generally be used successfully:

1.) Get the word out to the online gun community, especially those who live in the state/city where the list is being published.

2.) Call and email the newspaper publishers. They won't listen, but they do get annoyed with the phone lines being jammed an their voicemail inbox being filled to capacity.

3.) Get and openly publish any and all personal contact information of the employees of the newspaper. Spread it far and wide across the internet. Turnabout is, after all, fair play.

4.) Call advertisers on the phone, note your displeasure with what the local newspaper has done, and tell them that you'll not be doing business with them, and that you're telling everyone you know to take their business elsewhere. If they see enough potential customers walking away, they'll likely call the newspaper up and threaten to pull their advertising.

Success of this plan depends largely on location and the number of people who get involved. Outside of areas of the country that are well-and-truly anti-gun, we typically win these fights.

Expect the newspaper's editorial page to refer to us with disdain, but it doesn't matter, because by that point we've already delivered the beatdown and walked away with victory.

Justin, What came out of that? lawsuit? etc? Thats a pretty big invasion of privacy and the damage coming out of releasing info like that could be life threatening.

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The discussion about it is in the archives of The Firing Line

We jammed the phone lines and email inboxes of the newspaper (I actually only got through once, after that, nothing but busy signal.) IIRC, the database was taken down within two or three days of it being put online.

This was back in 2001. Remember that the online gun community was not nearly as large and well organized as it is today. This sort of thing is the kind of small but symbolic victory that can be won quite handily, as long as there's an actual plan in place.

I wonder if they have considered that publishing names like this might cause some people to carry without getting a permit?

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I've known people who've opted to carry without a permit for exactly this reason.

Publishing CCW data is a threat to my safety and my security. It paints me as a gunowner to those who don't need to know. It identifies me as a lucrative robbery /burglary target and thats why my state (Florida) has made it illegal. (except by subpena, law enforcement, etc). , otherwise, Florida has a handsoff policy to CCW critical data.

Exactly.
I want to carry concealed for some very good reasons...
For my own safety - I've been involved in putting a couple of bad people in prison, and if they should come to call(no doubt made easier by the publication of my personal information), I don't want them knowing that I carry.
For the safety of others - specifically my family.
For the safety and comfort of the general public - seeing a man with even a holstered pistol makes some people feel or even act funny. Peaceable concealment is a courtesy to them.

These are my reasons for wanting to *conceal* a weapon. Publishing my personal information as a permit-holder seems to be a slight to my desire to follow the law of the land by certifying my competence and obtaining a permit.

I can't understand the viewpoint that peaceable citizens should be made to suffer for compliance with the law. We don't get CCW permits so that we can go on shooting sprees or wave our handguns around in public... we get permits so that we can protect ourselves and those we love from bad people(who are not interested in laws, other than escaping their prosecution), and so that we can legally carry without others needing to know... sigh.

Justin, good points. Thanks.

Well in comments to the editor there were some harsh things said about Mr. Trejbal (the writer) - mostly deserved.

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Whatever happened with the *criminal* aspects of that case? If I recall correctly, the Roanoke Times violated state privacy laws by publishing that list if it contained the names of any women who had restraining orders against their boyfriends, etc. (and surely it did)