Concealed Carry at Gun Show

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Another consideration: having worked that security post at the front door of the gun show as an LEO, I've tied and stickered literally thousands of guns. One color sticker going in, another color sticker that dealers put on guns after they've sold them to a customer. Lots of guns change hands at those shows in private party, FTF transactions with no receipt. The colors of the stickers used are changed daily.

If you're coming out with a gun that's not zip tied with the correct color tie and has the correct color sticker on it, we have to assume you may have simply picked it up at one of the tables and walked out with it. It would be very simple to walk in with an empty holster under your jacket, stick that nice H&K in it while nobody's looking, and walk out. Guns are valuable merchandise, and the temptation is there. Don't begrudge the dealers and patrons some degree of security while maintaining your privacy. I'd really hate to have to check everyone on the way out for a receipt for every gun they were carrying. It's not just for ND's...

People who want my dollars respect my civil rights.

What about their civil rights? I suppose your rights trump theirs on their property in what way? For a bunch that gets real touchy about having our rights "respected", some of us seem to be pretty cavalier about disrespecting the rights of others.
 
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I wouldn't try to sneak my CCW past them .. That is just asking for trouble .. If you are afraid of going without a loaded weapon for a few hours .. DON'T GO IN .. It is most likely on private property.. No one is forcing you to go..
 
I went to a gun show early this year and kept my carry gun on me even though they had signs saying that you were not supposed to have loaded guns in the gun show. At a recent show, they had a metal detector at the exit to the show and some cops enforcing the "no loaded gun" rule. I told the cop I had a gun before I entered the show, and was riding a motorcycle with no locking bags. He had me put my magazine in the bike bag, and put a zip tie in my carry gun and told me to keep it unconcealed. It turned out that the metal detector was not even turned on, and just there to scare people like me who was CCW.

ScottE
 
In Oregon, even if the venue is posted, all they can do is ask you to leave.
But I only go to the shows that the local rifle range here puts on. So I pack, just like all the vendors pack. If it's visible it had better have a cable tie in it or alot of people might think about making the offender put it down.
Just how I see it.
 
In Oregon, even if the venue is posted, all they can do is ask you to leave

+1

I was told to ignore all signs to disarm (other than Schools, federal buildings, and airports). But that's in NV. The law here is quite clear.
 
As weird as it sounds most of these rules are to protect your right to go to a gun show and buy a gun. The anti's are looking for every excuse to shut them down and I feel those of you hollering about your rights are playing into the anti's trap. The way I feel that the people going to gunshows are your friends, not your enemies. From the people I have seen at gunshows they sure as h**l are not your enemies.
 
The Las Vegas Gun Show has this rule:


Quote:
As the public enters all guns must be checked at the door, clips out and ties to secure them so that they cannot be operated, be breached or loaded. All dealer guns if not under a glass case or taken apart must be tied.

I guess I'm a little slow, but I don't understand why the need for that policy. Any thoughts?

The Las Vegas shows are held at Cashman Field which is run by the County. State regulations prohibit carry in any Goverment controlled facility.
I would guess that this might apply to any shows anywhere if the are held at county fairgrounds as some are, or any other Count or City run sites.
 
The shows that Washington Arms Collectors hold require ALL firearms to be unloaded and zip tied.
Their reason is it will take only 1 round discharged and the shows would be over forever.
I would hate to be the one to give the .gov a reason to shut the shows down so I respect the rule and don't carry a loaded firearm in the building.
I do however reload as soon as I leave the show.
There is a bullet trap at the entrance so it is easy to comply.
There are enough armed uniformed police that I see no reason to worry about being unarmed for a few hours.
The antis have tried to get people to sell to them illegally in the parking lot so they can film it and use that to get the shows shut down.
That is why there are no cameras allowed.
AC
 
Acdodd , there are no cameras allowed INSIDE , I've done FTF deals in the parking lot outside . The WAC can't be held liable for whats going on in the parking lot because its not controlled . Anyone can come and go so any film from in that area would be suspect . BTW I was surprised how reasonable the prices were at the last one at the Puyallup fairgrounds .
 
What about their civil rights? I suppose your rights trump theirs on their property in what way? For a bunch that gets real touchy about having our rights "respected", some of us seem to be pretty cavalier about disrespecting the rights of others.

Corporations should not be able to squash your civil rights. Mine does trump theirs. I carry at gun shows, and I lie to the door man about it. :eek: (is the sky falling yet??)

I've always felt the right of the individual trumped the right of a collective. This is why I think big companies should not be able to force victim disarmament upon workers/customers. Corporations have too many rights as it is, and far too much power; we want this Right back.

Those that take the socialist view here and favor the right of the collective probably have a few screws loose, and need to consider what they'll do when the collective has them bent over next time. Or you probably live in some state that is awash in a sea of 30.06 and 51% signs.

-T
 
I went to a gun show here in Louisville at the KFEC once and will never go again. The gun show cost too much and I was sweeped by the muzzle of about 100 guns that I know of by people who should know better. I don't care if the gun is cleared and zipped. Gun dealers should know better and have more respect.
 
Mine does trump theirs.

That's the very mentality that leads to everyone losing their rights. (Hint: "My right to feel safe trumps your right to own dangerous weapons." If you can't see the similarity between what you're arguing and the same argument that the anti's use against us, you need to do some homework and some serious reflection on the nature of rights.)

Those that take the socialist view here and favor the right of the collective probably have a few screws loose, and need to consider what they'll do when the collective has them bent over next time.

Thanks soooo much for taking The High Road...

Look at it this way folks: you have some guns you want to sell or trade. Someone sets up a lovely venue where you can go and meet lots of people with the same interest. You pay your 50 bucks for a table and obey all the rules so you can exercise your right to buy and sell your property without interference (you're not an FFL). There are some who insist that their rights trump yours and they will *not* obey some pansy @$$ rules designed for their safety and your security. Who's being the pr**ck here?

For all those who insist that they won't obey anyone else's rules, answer me these questions:

Do you obey the rules at your local shooting range? Are they there for your and everyone else's safety and security? Would the owner(s) of the range be "socialists" for insisting that you obey the rules or leave?

Come on, now. Don't tell me you're gonna respect some people's property rights and not others. No, not you, your rights trump everyone else's, don't they?
 
Your argument is based on some false assumptions that carrying a concealed gun affects property rights.

Someone else carrying a concealed gun does not affect me.
My carrying a concealed gun does not affect them.

Like I said, corporations have too many rights as it is, I will not comply with their attempts at victim disarmament. I am not stealing or destroying their property, their property rights remain intact. I don't know why your straw-man argument gets so much traction around here.

-T
 
In FL, there are signs also that say no loaded firearms allowed on the premise however there is nothing in the FL statutes that say you have to abide by that sign. I personally do not carry in the building for the reason listed above that one ND happens and it could shut down the whole thing which in reality hurts all of us.
However, I do believe that if someone is abiding by the law then they can do as they please.
(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
 
Unless your state has a particular law it is up to the people who run the gun shows. I have been to both and choose not to go to the ones that restrict me from carrying. It is hypocritical in my opinion. They simply need to do as Gander Mountain does. You are welcome to carry concealed but you may not remove your loaded gun from it's holster. If you want to trade it take it back out and have a tie put on it. Problem Solved. They have a right to do what they want, I have a right to not attend and I don't.
 
Like I said, corporations have too many rights as it is,

Corporations are made up of people. The last gun show around here was put on by a family owned company, not a corporation. Are you really saying that "people have too many rights as it is"? Careful what you wish for...

I will not comply with their attempts at victim disarmament.

Fine. They do not have to allow you on their property either. If you don't respect their property rights, they don't have to respect your rights. Do you follow the safety rules at your gun range? Or is that too much of an infringement on your rights?

I am not stealing or destroying their property, their property rights remain intact.

Not when you choose to violate them arbitrarily. If you trespass on posted property, are you damaging property rights?

I don't know why your straw-man argument gets so much traction around here.

Straw man? How can you whine and cry about others respecting your rights when you declare that you have no intention of respecting theirs? Can you see the irony? The gun show is not public property. i.e., your "right" to be there is contingent on compliance with the wishes of the owner.

Havegunjoe:

It is hypocritical in my opinion. They simply need to do as Gander Mountain does. You are welcome to carry concealed but you may not remove your loaded gun from it's holster.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but the sad fact is that several ND's have occurred when this has been allowed. You also still have the problem of identifying guns that were carried in by their owners vs. guns that have possibly been stolen from an exhibitor. No security system using colored stickers is going to be perfect, so maybe declaring your weapon at the door would be a solution. Gander Mountain has security cameras and other things in place that a crowded gun show in a temporary venue does not. Bottom line, the exhibitors have a right to some level of security on their high value merchandise, and allowing guns unaccounted for into and out of the show does not contribute to that.
 
Corporations are made up of people. The last gun show around here was put on by a family owned company, not a corporation. Are you really saying that "people have too many rights as it is"? Careful what you wish for...

Soylent green is made of people. Legally Company = Corporation, as is LTD, INC, CO, CORP.

A corporation is a legal construct and is legally seen as ONE PERSON. It has too much power. I know what I am wishing for. It should not have the power to disarm real individuals.

Again, concealed carry has no bearing on property rights -- it does not affect their property; I challenge you to demonstrate how it does in any meaningful manner. No property is stolen or damaged by a concealed handgun. And how is it trespassing if it is open to the public? These are not closed warehouses we're talking about. You keep pushing your strawman.

Most of the ND's you're whining about are done by the dealers themselves, not those with concealed carry.

I dont buy into the "collective good" argument much, that communist line of thought does not stick with me. I see the rights of the individual as fundamentally more important, else the endgame for this mental masturbation exercise is that corporations disarm everyone everywhere except public streets.

My stance is that if it is open to the public, like a parking lot, or store, or gun show, then they have no right to disarm the public. You obviously prefer to be bullied into compliance by the anti-gun collective. Enjoy being pushed around.

-T
 
Main reason is that they would not be able to get insurance and the threat of law suits against the facility owner.
 
We've had a influx of "gangbanger" types at our shows over the last couple of years. Wonder if they are leaving theirs in the car?

Mine will stay with me :)
 
Do gun dealer shops make you unload?

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but the sad fact is that several ND's have occurred when this has been allowed.

Which "this" would you be referring to? Carrying a concealed handgun in a holster? Or removing said gun from holster and firing it? The former is as the poster contends not affecting another soul and in fact known only to other souls that the person carrying the concealed gun chooses to tell. The latter is a crime, prosecutable.

You also still have the problem of identifying guns that were carried in by their owners vs. guns that have possibly been stolen from an exhibitor.

Well... No I don't. In fact, yours is the first such experience I've heard relayed in this fashion. All of the local shows I've gone too are heavily policed and the guns are secured in one way, shape or form on the display so a walk off is as unlikely as the vendor is diligent. Should someone bolt with a gun, and not paid for it all the vendor has to do is shout "stop thief" and the thug won't make it another 5 steps before being gang tackled <- this happend... Before the cops got involved.

The example you give about colored dots is an interesting method but seems kind of intrusive. It would be like having to prove you actually paid for groceries & other goods every time you left the store. Sure the vendor & promoter are indemnifying themselves, but at the cost of treating everyone like a criminal.


Bottom line, the exhibitors have a right to some level of security on their high value merchandise, and allowing guns unaccounted for into and out of the show does not contribute to that.

and the consumers don't have the right to at least the same level of security for their individual persons? :confused: Merchandise can be replaced, but people can't. zip tying guns used for personal defense effectively eliminates a person's ability to protect themselves against an attack. It's a "Lock up your safety" rule that we collectively have accepted for gun shows but rejected for gun shops. The very same argument that you have debated can also be applied to the vendors and promoters of the shows - they don't have a right to feel safe at everyone else's expense.

When you worked security for the show as a LEO, did you also zip tie your gun to give the exhibitors the "level of security on their high value merchandise" or did you ignore their desire for no unloaded firearms? :neener:

Once in a while people get mowed down by a parade vehicle but we don't require parade vehicles to have the engine yanked before participating. The point I'm making is that the problem that this allegedly is to address is negligent discharges which by definition cannot happen to a holstered concealed handgun. It can happen once the gun is being removed from the holster which shouldn't be happening, and ND's can happen when people have their fingers on the trigger when they shouldn't but the common elements of an ND do not include a concealed, holstered handgun.
 
The point I'm making is that the problem that this allegedly is to address is negligent discharges which by definition cannot happen to a holstered concealed handgun. It can happen once the gun is being removed from the holster which shouldn't be happening, and ND's can happen when people have their fingers on the trigger when they shouldn't but the common elements of an ND do not include a concealed, holstered handgun.

And I agree - We don't disarm CC holders when they walk into the gunshop because they are expected to keep their loaded guns in their holsters. Same is true at a show. ND's have nothing to do with CCW's , they are simply breeches of the safety rules .
 
Well... No I don't. In fact, yours is the first such experience I've heard relayed in this fashion. All of the local shows I've gone too are heavily policed and the guns are secured in one way, shape or form on the display so a walk off is as unlikely as the vendor is diligent. Should someone bolt with a gun, and not paid for it all the vendor has to do is shout "stop thief" and the thug won't make it another 5 steps before being gang tackled <- this happend... Before the cops got involved.

The problem isn't so much with experienced gun show exhibitors but with the small non-dealers and collectors who are new to the game.

The example you give about colored dots is an interesting method but seems kind of intrusive. It would be like having to prove you actually paid for groceries & other goods every time you left the store. Sure the vendor & promoter are indemnifying themselves, but at the cost of treating everyone like a criminal.

The difference between grocery stores and gun shows is in the value and portability of the merchandise. I'd expect to see an even higher level of security at a jewelry show. Most of us wouldn't wear an $800 watch, but we strap on an $800 handgun without thinking too much about its monetary value. Hey, to some people, that's a lot of money, me included.

Which "this" would you be referring to? Carrying a concealed handgun in a holster?

I already gave the example of an off-duty LEO trying a holster with his loaded pistol and having an ND. Even trained people can do stupid things.


When you worked security for the show as a LEO, did you also zip tie your gun to give the exhibitors the "level of security on their high value merchandise" or did you ignore their desire for no unloaded firearms?

I'm being paid to provide the security, and when I take a break and go into the display area, I secure my loaded weapon with the officer who's relieving me. :neener:

Don't kid yourself either. Most of the exhibitors are carrying concealed too.

And how is it trespassing if it is open to the public?

Because it's posted in accordance with state and local law. Calling my argument a strawman won't make it go away. If you don't like the rules, fine, don't go there. "Open to the public"? Does that mean if I don't want to pay the admission I can just waltz on in? It's your argument that's a straw man. Just because a business is open to the public doesn't mean the property owner gives up all rights. Ever seen one of those "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" signs? Does "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" ring a bell?

Other gun shows in other venues have different rules. At least respect the folks there enough to abide by them. I've failed to make you see the benefit of common courtesy and legal, moral and ethical precedent. Attitudes like yours will ensure that the institution of the gun show is headed for a lingering death. Too bad.

Again, concealed carry has no bearing on property rights -- it does not affect their property; I challenge you to demonstrate how it does in any meaningful manner.

Repeating myself, guns are high value merchandise. High value merchandise going in and out of an area unaccounted for leaves the exhibitors open to theft. You walk in. You manage to steal a gun undetected. The last check going out of the show are the folks at the entry looking for that darn colored sticker the exhibitors are supposed to put on the guns they sell. You don't have one on the gun, so we stop you. Every time this has happened, it was very low key and so far has been the exhibitor forgetting or a sticker falling off, but we check. This keeps us from having to ask everyone for a receipt to show that they bought the gun. Far from treating people like criminals, this lets them buy firearms in legal, FTF transactions for cash money on the barrelhead. If I see someone walking out with a concealed weapon (they're easier to spot than you think) I can only assume that they're stealing it, especially if the great big sign out front says "No Concealed or Loaded Firearms Allowed".

We're talking about gun shows in areas that aren't designed for high security that may be running on a fairly small budget. The bigger shows may do things differently, but the ones around here in Northwest Arkansas aren't that big.

I don't know how I can be any clearer than that.
 
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