Hutch,
I am merely saying that a person's behavior is a better indicator of the intent of their activities than the brand of trousers they are wearing. You are free to disagree.
The cases I have highlighted are not that unusual except for the number of people each man killed. They are well known mass murderers. I used them as examples because they were mass murderers. If I had used murderers of a single person, the results would have been similar.
Young people identify their affiliations by the clothing they wear. The affiliation may be to the Crips the Latin Kings, or Mara Salvatrucha that is true, or it may be to some rap star. This is no different than the leather jackets of the 50s, the beads of the 60s, and a host of other garments. True, Charles Manson wore beads. So did Sharon Tate. So did Roman Polanski. Saying every kid in baggy pants is a potential criminal until proven otherwise is like saying every person with a leather jacket and a Harley is a possible Hell's Angel until proven otherwise, or Heaven help us, every person who owns a gun is a potential murderer until proven otherwise. It is not what a person wears, owns, drives or carries that matters, it is what they do that matters. As a result, observing what they do, observing their behavior, will be a more accurate predictor of future behavior.
I do not speak from some point of ignorance. I speak from over 15 years of going into gang infested territories to provide nursing service. I speak from being able to recognize and separate gang members who are dragged into the ER by their homies after stabbings and shootings. I speak from the vantage point of recognizing the same behaviors in criminals I encountered in Okinawa, the Phillipines, Thailand, Korea, and other places abroad. I am not discounting Mekender's experience, but I will say that walking the streets in gang territory for over a decade and tending a bar may give two people different perspectives. I do ask that you do not discount my perspective simply because I have not tended a bar. If you plan to stay in a bar, listen to Mekender. He definitely has the experience there. If you plan to leave the bar, you might want to think a bit deeper. The inside of a bar is not a reflection of the reality outside. I say this meaning no disrespect to Mekender. Criminals do not always wear a uniform for ease of recognition. They do display the same behaviors when they ply their trade. They also recognize and act on the same responses from potential victims in their victim selection process.
The fact is, a person should be most vigilant about people they know, the person not unlike themselves. Many people make the error of believing killings and maimings are random events committed by strangers. Some are. Most are not. The majority of conflicts that result in violence occur between people who know each other, or as the result of the actions of someone they are with at the time. Since you may not believe this tidbit,
here is my source.
Victim/offender relationship
Males were more likely to be violently victimized by a stranger than a nonstranger, and females were more likely to be victimized by a friend, an acquaintance, or an intimate.
During 2005 --
About seven in ten female rape or sexual assault victims stated the offender was an intimate, other relative, a friend or an acquaintance.
Seventy-four percent of males and 48% of females stated the individual(s) who robbed them was a stranger.
Intimates were identified by the victims of workplace violence as the perpetrator in about 1% of all workplace violent crime. About 40% of the victims of nonfatal violence in the workplace reported that they knew their offender.
For murder victims, 43% were related to or acquainted with their assailants; 14% of victims were murdered by strangers, while 43% of victims had an unknown relationship to their murderer in 2002.
Two thirds of murders of children under the age of 5 were committed by a parent or other family member.
It is true that rapes may be skewing the statistics, but rape is also a violent crime, and must be considered. The first sentence is misleading, because males tend to be robbed more frequently than they are raped, at least outside of prison. Robberies may be skewing the numbers as well. Robberies seem to be overwhelmingly committed by strangers. Of course, robbers tend to not target those they know.....They might be recognized, and that would screw up their day. Thus males tend to be violently victimized by a stranger. But consider the murders....43% knew their attacker. Only 14% definitely did not. The remaining 43% is an unknown variable.
Now, take a look at
this chart......
Convicted Murderers in 2006. No doubt you will note the higher number of blacks between the ages of 13 and 29 who were convicted of murder. Let's face it. It's glaring. Do not ignore, however, the higher number of whites between the ages of 35 and 75 who were convicted of murder. I find that interesting. I'm sure some of these younger guys were wearing baggy pants. Let's assume baggy pants were worn by all convicted murderers under the age of 22 in 2006, by males, females, black and white. That's pretty much the age range I see wearing baggy pants, except the females don't wear them as frequently. I'll give you the females too though. Occasionally I will see baggy trousers on an older person, just as I will see regular jeans or khakis on a younger person. We will not count Grandpa's trousers as baggy. That's probably age related, not gang related.....Fair enough? That makes 4,040 murders by the baggy pants crowd. 7636 people were murdered by the non-baggy crowd. Interesting.
Maybe I'm looking at these numbers wrong, it's late and it's been a long day. If you can cite some statistics showing a more exact relationship between baggy pants and criminal activity, I'm all ears. Without some numbers to back it up, I see the equation of baggy pants with criminality in the same light as equating gun ownership with murder.
The bottom line for me is: I would rather rely on my own experience in identifying a potential threat by their behavior instead of by the trousers they wear. Predicting future behavior by present behavior has worked for me for over 25 adult years, and I see no reason why it will not continue to work for me. To me, reading a person is more than assessing their fashion sensibilities. Relating my experience is not discounting the experiences of others, it is simply an attempt to pass on what I have learned. If you feel it is worthless, politically correct (and therefore somehow stigmatized), or ignorant, that is fine by me. I find it to be prudent and effective.
The original poster asked:
What do you think? Was I paranoid and stereotyping these people because of how they dressed? Was it a cultural misunderstanding?
I responded:
In regards to whether an attack was imminent, I think you are being unduly influenced by their appearance.
Since I stated that, I have had to defend this premise again and again. My gosh, you folks must find the baggy pants gangsta look to be as unappealing as I do. Finding baggy pants unappealing does not make them a reliable risk indicator though. They are just window dressing on a deeper picture. If you believe baggy pants to be a reliable risk indicator, you would be getting an adrenaline rush every time you encountered them. Perhaps you are, but if you are, look at the big picture. Your blood pressure will appreciate it. Of course you could move to
Alexandria Louisiana, where it is illegal to wear pants that fall 3 inches below the hips, exposing undergarments in public places. Atlanta Georgia, Shreveport Lousiana, Pine Bluff Arkansas, Dallas Texas, and Alexandria, Virginia are all following Alexandria Louisiana's lead in proposing these new progressive thinking laws. I wonder what effect it will have on crime.
Edited to add: For the original poster, here is a page from a
website that may be of interest. In fact, you might want to read quite a bit of Marc's writing, if his language does not offend you to much. Just follow the links of interest within his writing.
), I wear big hoodies (this time of year anyway. There's nothing more comfortable than a hoodie