Verbal threats in Virginia.

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damooster

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This is not a discussion/question related to firearms, but I have come to a dead end and am turning to you guys because I know you are all pretty law savvy.

A few weeks ago, on a Saturday, a co-worker almost got in to a fight with a customer. The manager told him to leave, but he wouldn't, so the boss fired him. The co-worker went crazy! He was destroying property and he got in everybody's face and told us what he was going to do to us. For example, he told me that he "was going to come back on Monday and kick my a$% after work" and that "we better higher security" because he's "coming back for all of us." I laughed more than anything but I didn't even do anything!

We called the police and the manager decided not to press charges for destroying our property or for refusing to leave, but I asked about pressing charges for threatening me. Even though I wasn't intimidated, I'm not going to sit idly by while this guy comes back that following Monday to make good on what he said he would do.

The police told us that threatening us, face to face, is not illegal. The only way they can arrest him for threatening me was if he did it over the phone.

From what I've discovered, there are specific laws prohibiting threats made over a telephone. I could only find one law that he could've been arrested on, and that is pretty much yelling and cursing in a manner that disturbs the peace, a Class 3 Misdemeanor.

I guess what I'm asking is for anyone with knowledge of these laws to tell me that there are or there aren't laws prohibiting verbal threats made in person. I've sent emails to my state senator and house representative about this situation, but have only heard back from my state senator (and she was just asking for clarification).

I'm pushing this issue because in this day in age, we can't afford to be reactionary. When people tell you they're going to harm you, even though they're some snot nosed punk, you have to pay attention. People are getting shot at churches and malls now!

Thanks in advance for any help.

(p.s. The guy was arrested the following weekend. A local mechanic was working on his car, and when he went to pick it up, he asked if he could take it for a test drive and never returned to pay the mechanic.)
 
I am not a lawyer.

As far as I know, the verbal threat isn't enough, there has to be intent. The person has to have the means to carry it out right then and there and do something to show intent.

John
 
What you are looking for, at least in NY is at the least "Disorderly Conduct" (sort of a catch all for jacka$$es), more likely "Harassment". "Aggravated Harassment" is worse, and that is using a telephone, mail etc. to make such threats.

S 240.26 Harassment in the second degree.
A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with
intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:
1. He or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects such other
person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same;
Click to expand...

Hopefully Virginia has a similiar law?
 
How ridiculous is that? You can get into trouble for threatening someone on the phone? Anyways, I am going to go out on a limb and say this guy was probably making empty threats under the circumstances. That being said, I would continue your daily routine and not worry about pressing charges against him unless he provokes you more.
 
Damooster,

Here's the advice we get in our martial arts school.

The controlling legal authority is Virginia Code §18.2-57. Here one finds the definition of assault and separately of battery. To the point, an assault is the apprehension on the part of the victim of a harmful contact from the aggressor. Battery is the actual contact. So a swing and a miss is assault, a swing and a hit is assault and battery. I don't think you can have battery without assault.

The code is clear that the anticipation of a physical assault is also assault. From what you've written, did you have a sense he was going to hurt you right then and there? The answer is the same as to whether you were assaulted.

I'd appreciate a perspective from a legal professional. I don't even play one on TV.
 
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The original question is addressed in the first section below. "under circumstances reasonably calculated to provoke a breach of the peace, he shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor."


"How ridiculous is that? You can get into trouble for threatening someone on the phone?"

Ridiculous? It's against the law everywhere. Phones, radios, airwaves, etc. JT


www.srislawyer.com/PracticeAreas/VIRGINIA-TELEPHONE-THREAT-CURSE-ABUSE-LANGUAGE-LAWYER.asp

Virginia Telephone Threat/Curse & Abuse Defense

VIRGINIA CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEYS
DEFENDING VIRGINIA TELEPHONE THREAT CASES & VIRGINIA CURSE & ABUSE CHARGES
In Virginia, any person who uses threatening or profane language over the public airways including telephones, radios, CBs can be charged with a criminal act. Also, any person who uses curse words to another that is reasonably likely to provoke an act of violence can be charged with a crime. These are serious offenses that carry life changing consequences.

The following are some of the different curse & abuse and telephone threat charges in the Commonwealth of Virginia:
VA Code § 18.2-416. Punishment for using abusive language to another

If any person shall, in the presence or hearing of another, curse or abuse such other person, or use any violent abusive language to such person concerning himself or any of his relations, or otherwise use such language, under circumstances reasonably calculated to provoke a breach of the peace, he shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor.

§ 18.2-427. Use of profane, threatening or indecent language over public airways

If any person shall use obscene, vulgar, profane, lewd, lascivious, or indecent language, or make any suggestion or proposal of an obscene nature, or threaten any illegal or immoral act with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass any person, over any telephone or citizens band radio, in this Commonwealth, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

§ 18.2-429. Causing telephone to ring with intent to annoy

Any person who, with or without intent to communicate but with intent to annoy any other person, causes any telephone or digital pager, not his own, to ring or to otherwise signal, and any person who permits or condones the use of any telephone under his control for such purpose shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor.
 
The police told us that threatening us, face to face, is not illegal. The only way they can arrest him for threatening me was if he did it over the phone.
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Back to the original question, I think the police officer is flat out wrong. Threatening is illegal anywhere in the United States. It is a separate offense from assault, so don't mix up the scenario with that. You don't have to take a swing at somone -- just say "I'm going to stomp your sorry [bleep] into dogfood" and you are guilty of threatening.

And I agree that such threats, when made by someone under conditions and circumstances that have historically led other people to lose it, should be reported and acted upon. Stop by the police station and speak with a shift supervisor.
 
A criminal charge is one thing, but a civil case will open all new doors for you. You had witnesses right? Talk to a lawyer, perhaps a civil case will be another route. I would think a restraining order could be obtained here.
 
Threats are indeed illegal. I took a law class in high school (ha ha I know, high school tee hee get it out, what do you want, I'm 19) and I know for a fact verbal threats are indeed illegal. I don't remember as much as I'd like to right now but it is indeed at least harassment and I think for harassment it's a tort meaning you'd have to sue them or something like that.
 
Contact your local Commonwealth's Attorney's office and talk to them. They should be able to provide you with guidance on what type of threats or evidence are needed to press charges.
 
Your guy seems to be having a general meltdown. He fought with a customer, went berserk when he was fired, and was arrested the next weekend for yet another self destructive incident. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other serious problems in his life. Read the signs: this guy is breaking under pressure.

Speaking only for myself, I am reluctant to add to the problems of anyone who is having hard times unless there's some overriding reason to do so. Pride and ego are not among those reasons, at least not for me.

If I were in your situation I would not want to volunteer for a featured role in that guy's personal drama and risk becoming the focus of his anger. I'd fade into the background and let someone else be a star.
 
Robert Hairless said:
If I were in your situation I would not want to volunteer for a featured role in that guy's personal drama and risk becoming the focus of his anger. I'd fade into the background and let someone else be a star.
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"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
 
I did some quick legal research for you. Below are the cases I found relevant (disclaimer: I am in law school, but am not a lawyer. Don't take any of this as legal advice :) ) For those not familiar with legal research, below are cases which "clarify" Virginia Code § 18.2-57, dealing with Assault.

Words alone do not constitute an assault. Bennett v. Com., 2001, 546 S.E.2d 209, 35 Va.App. 442.

To constitute an assault there must be an overt act or an attempt, or the unequivocal appearance of an attempt, with force and violence, to do physical injury to the person of another. Bennett v. Com., 2001, 546 S.E.2d 209, 35 Va.App. 442.

The slightest touching of another, if done in a rude, insolent or angry manner, constitutes a battery for which the law affords redress. Gilbert v. Com., 2005, 608 S.E.2d 509, 45 Va.App. 67.

"Assault" is an attempt or offer, with force and violence, to do some bodily harm to another, whether from wantonness or malice, by means calculated to produce the end if carried into execution; as by striking at him with a stick or other weapon, or without a weapon, though he be not struck, or even by raising up the arm or a cane in a menacing manner, by throwing a bottle of glass with an intent to strike, by levelling a gun at another within a distance from which, supposing it to be loaded, the contents might injure, or any similar act accompanied with circumstances denoting an intention coupled with a present ability, of using actual violence against the person of another. Carter v. Com., 2003, 585 S.E.2d 848, 41 Va.App. 448, rehearing en banc granted, mandate stayed 587 S.E.2d 362, 41 Va.App. 594, on rehearing 594 S.E.2d 284, 42 Va.App. 681, affirmed 606 S.E.2d 839, 269 Va. 44. Assault And Battery Key Number graphic 48

In order to constitute an assault there must be an overt act or an attempt, or the unequivocal appearance of an attempt, with force and violence, to do physical injury to the person of another. Carter v. Com., 2003, 585 S.E.2d 848, 41 Va.App. 448, rehearing en banc granted, mandate stayed 587 S.E.2d 362, 41 Va.App. 594, on rehearing 594 S.E.2d 284, 42 Va.App. 681, affirmed 606 S.E.2d 839, 269 Va. 44. Assault And Battery Key Number graphic 51

Assault requires an overt act or an attempt, or the unequivocal appearance of an attempt, with force and violence, to do physical injury to the person of another. Zimmerman v. Com., 2003, 585 S.E.2d 538, 266 Va. 384. Assault And Battery Key Number graphic 48

There is no requirement that a victim be physically touched to be assaulted. Zimmerman v. Com., 2003, 585 S.E.2d 538, 266 Va. 384.


"Bennett" seems to be most directly related to your case. It looks to still be good law as it relates to your issue. In short, words alone do not count as assault. There MUST be an attempt at physical harm, even if unsuccessful, to sustain an assault conviction.

There may be other Virginia laws that apply, but I could be here all night trying to find them. You get 1 analysis per night :neener:
 
Agulla Blanca:

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
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But "A penny saved is a penny earned," "A stitch in time saves nine," "A fool and his money are soon parted," "He who hesitates is lost," "Every little makes a nickel," and "No matter how dark and stormy the night you can't shingle a roof with stewed prunes."

I've provided six quotations to your one, so I win. Want to play another round? It's much easier to spout quotations than it is to discuss real situations and more fun too.

As D.H. Lawrence said, “Evil, what is evil? There is only one evil, to deny life.”

Keep in mind that “Trouble brings experience, and experience brings wisdom” and that "It takes two to get one in trouble.” My own experience makes me reluctant to advise anyone to take a course that seems likely to get him in trouble, especially trouble of an irreversible and potentially most serious kind.
 
Robert Hairless said:
If I were in your situation I would not want to volunteer for a featured role in that guy's personal drama and risk becoming the focus of his anger. I'd fade into the background and let someone else be a star.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but if everyone keeps passing it along and hoping someone else will deal with it, then it'll never get resolved. Like I said, I'm not personally afraid of the guy, I just want to convince the lawmakers in my state that if you can get in trouble for threatening someone over the phone, you should be able to get in trouble for doing it in person. We need to make the laws consistent.
 
Texas has ''Making Terroristic Threats'' as a crime. His statememts would qualify under the law. Virginia has nothing that I am aware of.

If you are just worried about your own skin take RHs advice. Even if you run this one to ground you likely will resolve little while antagonizing a criminal. You don't want potentially dangerous people upset at you do you? It probably would not be worth it. Maybe they will just pass you by and not hurt you and focus on another to have for dinner... err I mean bother. After all you have no responsibility to anyone else for their safety and well being and this country is all about #1. It isn't as though people just walk into offices, schools, stores, churches and shopping malls and open fire randomly on people after being upset over some minor differences.

I think your legal question has been answered. The moral and ethical question is one only you can answer.
 
We called the police and the manager decided not to press charges for destroying our property or for refusing to leave.
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Not really a good choice. You want to start a paper trail as early as possible.

I asked about pressing charges for threatening me.
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In Virginia, verbal only threats are not considered actionable. In order for it to be a crime there must be physical evidence of an assault such as torn clothing, scratches, you covered in oil, mustard or whatever the nut was throwing around.

The police told us that threatening us, face to face, is not illegal. The only way they can arrest him for threatening me was if he did it over the phone.
Click to expand...

That's because using the telephone to threaten falls under the FCC regulations.

I could only find one law that he could've been arrested on, and that is pretty much yelling and cursing in a manner that disturbs the peace, a Class 3 Misdemeanor.
Click to expand...

True but "curse and abuse" is generally (again, in Virginia) only used when it's directed against an officer.

Would your employer allow you to carry concealed at work? If not I personally might have to consider catching the "wandering crud" for a couple of days and stay home sick.

If I remember correctly (boy I'd like to find that research again), the most dangerous times after an event like this are the next day, three days later, and/or the following Monday. Generally if you get past that nothing is going to happen.
 
The police could definitely arrest him for breach of peace, disorderly conuct, or one of the other laws that can be molded to fit someone doing something stupid.
 
The police could definitely arrest him for breach of peace, disorderly conuct, or one of the other laws that can be molded to fit someone doing something stupid.
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Not inside a private business with the business owner refusing to press charges. Out on the street (in public) sure, but not inside the private business. (I've been stymied by this one before...grrrrrr).
 
It occurs to me that there was a time that nobody would even think of a lawsuit or any other kind f legal action against somebody for 'threatening to kick my ass'.

Hell, growing up, I must have heard that phrase multiple times a day. Occasionally, one was directed at me.

My, how sensitive and soft we've become.

Do things the old school way. Mind your business, watch your six, and if somebody actually messes with you, then take care of yourself.
 
ZeSpectre- I am trying to imagine your frustration as a LEO with people making murderous threats in front of you and not being able to do anything. That would burn me up.
 
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