Best Shotgun Ammo for HD?

i've done allot of reaserch on this subject
at close range (in the home) anything will do the trick
i like winchester superX 00 buck
patterns well in my shotgun
see what patterns well in your shotgun
i like winchester because it is cheaper than remington
they both pattern good
give federal 00buck a try
tell us what you come up with



i don't know for sure but at close range buckshot may go through a brickwall
now i've never shot my house with buckshot
maybee someone on here has done some tests with buckshot that could tell us there results

I use #6 shot.

0311,

I think that you and I are the only people left on this planet that feels secure with #6 shot in the chamber. My congrats to a gentleman like you. I know what #6 will do at HD ranges. I am probably one of the few members that has personal experience with what it will do to the human body.

Get set for another fan war. The HD buckshot/slug guys will soon chime in to give us a hard time. Meanwhile I shall keep my 20 gauge Nova stoked with #6 "whatever is on sale at Walmart" loads. I will sleep well tonight with it next to my bedside.

evbutler462 like i said at 10yards birdshot buckshot slug will all stop
the criminal

It's probably best to kiss a bunch of frogs, so to speak. Try a bunch of different rounds and see what patterns best in your gun at the intended range.

Even with brick exterior walls, I wouldn't bet on a slug not making it outside your domicile. I'm pretty sure the Box o' Truth people did a test on this. You might want to look that up.

You'll probably hear some people recommend bird shot; I don't think this is a good idea, personally. It has the potential to create some nasty surface wounds, but the chances of it reaching vitals aren't so good. There's a certain Vice President who's likely very grateful for this fact

I've heard that #4 buckshot is the minimum you can count on for decent penetration.

3" loadings are probably overkill. It's not just recoil you need to think about; muzzle blast and flash should be considered as well. I haven't ever touched off a shotgun indoors (hopefully I'll never have to,) but I'm sure it ain't too much fun. Many people are comfortable with reduced recoil loadings for HD.

I've seen impressive patterns with the Federal Flite Control loadings. I just ordered a couple of boxes to see for myself. Hopefully, I'll be able to post a range report sometime soon.

I'm sure the others will chime in shortly. . .

I also like (as does my 590) the Winchester Super-X. Makes nice even patterns, but at HD ranges it's not such an issue...make sure you AIM that thing.

2 3/4", 8+1. I believe the Super-X and double-X are plated. I do keep a tube's worth of double-X 3" mags, in case I'm attacked by the Predator.

I like the remington hevishot coyote killer. Fourty 20 caliber pellets.

I personally prefer #4 shot. From everything I have read in ammo publications I understand #4 or #1 are the lowest end of the scale for serious manstoppers. Birdshot will penetrate but depending on many factors it will not penetrate for a good stop. Sorta like the old west shootings where the cowboys worn, dirty leather jackets and clothes sometimes stopped or slowed the soft lead bullets.

I run #4 followed by slugs. I use 2 3/4 full power loadings. I practice lean into from the sholder and from the hip shooting form. No bench since I will never fire from the bench in real life. I have decided that I have no use for 3 inch shells. I can use more shells if more lead is needed.

I use Winchester slugs and buck in 2 3/4 and some Remington 3 inch slugs. My 870 Police Wingmaster can shoot five round 2 inch groups at 50 yards offhand with Winchester slugs. I am saving up to buy some bulk Hornady Hydra-Shock slugs soon.

I would agree that the lead penetrates more than any other. Bismuth is a close second. Lead has the highest density and therefore maintains more inertia on contact.

I am using a 2 3/4 Wingmaster 870 in police configuration. It is a bit much but it is a rarity so I had to get it, it is all factory. Folding stock, pistol grip, mag extension, rifle sights. I also use a standard 870 police magnum.

The 590A1 is a good gun. I do not have access to all of my stuff right now. Let me know and I will get some stuff togather for you as far as shotgun load information and some ammo suppliers if you wish when I can get to my stuff.

Buy several different brands of buckshot in various pellet sizes and pattern them. Buy several brands of slugs and see what size groups you get.

My personal preferences lean toward Remington 2 3/4" 00 buck and Brenneke KO slugs. Best and most consistent performance across the various shotguns I own (several each of Remington 870's and Mossbergs). But base your decisions on actual testing yourself, not what you hear from us here.

3" shells are overkill for 2 legged targets. Birdshot is for the birdies..........

Big Boomer - I believe I now understand were you are going better. Please do not be so worried about shot weights. Look at what how ammunition is designed to perform. I would like to recommend that you look at the ammunitiontogo website.

For slugs they have Federal, Winchester, and Remington as my first three choices. The Hydrashock has been around for years and the Winchester Ranger is actually "Black Talon" without the "coating". I personally do no feel a need for reduced recoil ammunition, some people like it for the reduced recoil, follow up shots, and lower penetration. Do not worry about a rifled barrel. LE designed slugs are self stabilized since they are designed to fire out of Improved Cylinder bores. They actually should not be fired in rifled shotguns.

For buckshot they have Hornady TAP, Winchester Ranger, Federal Tactical, and Nobel Sport Law Enforcement. Most would recommend the TAP. Just do not get near the 1 inch shells that are on this site, they will not cycle in autos or pumps, they are a novelty.

As far as plated or unplated, plating cuts down on deformation of the shot when it travels down the barrel. Hornady TAP shot uses a special cup to carry it down the barrel, hence no plating. Once out of the barrel deformation can mess up the trajectory of the shot. Inside of 25 yards....you be the judge.

As far as home defense ammo......as someone much more savvy than me said "look at what the people who depend on their weapons every day are doing and follow their example". That is why I use LE designed loads at home.

Evbutler, my home is currently defended by a 20 ga. shotgun loaded with #8 shot squeezing through a full choke. My house is too small for shot size to really matter, and my walls are too thin and neighbors too close for me to want to shoot anything big. These are pretty hot loads, not just normal field loads, though.

I too have seen what birdshot does at close ranges, and I am a believer.

2 3/4" 00 Buck.
-

I tested Remington and Winchester 2 3/4" OO buck in my Mossy 500 at 20 yds. The Remington load kept all 9 pellets on target.

You have to do the same thing. See which works better in your particular gun.

The only difference I see is the 1 1/4 ounce, 1 ounce, and 7/8ths ounce any advice?

Once again plated or non plated shot? 00 or 000? I would like to stay with 00 or bigger.

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As far as the differences in slug weights, for your purposes the only real difference will likely be in felt recoil. Heavier slugs you will feel more. But in the heat of the moment will you really feel the recoil??? Probably not. However, consider practice sessions. You'll shoot more if you are shooting comfortably. 1oz slugs are gracious plenty of lead. The 7/8ths ounce hi velocity slugs give a bit better ballistic trajectory to 100 yds IMO, but will that matter for your purposes?? Pick one that performs well from your gun and don't worry so much about the optimal weight. Either will work for you.

As far as 00 v 000, Either will get the job done. I prefer 00 because that is what is most available and inexpensive around here. It's what I hunt with and I've seen what it does to flesh and bone. Ammo price becomes a factor when you shoot enough to become proficient with your shotgun. Buy lots of it, spend lots of it.

Plated v. unplated. Eh. I've never seen the utility of plating. I've patterned some of it vs. unplated shot and didn't see worlds of difference. Cost was higher, though. Also, and this is purely anecdotal as I've only used it once in a hunting situation, I had unsatisfactory performance once on deer. Deer ran much longer than normal after being shot with plated shot. When I found the deer the pellets had exited the body completely with only one or two exceptions. Normally when I shoot one with unplated 00 buck the pellets are mostly recovered under the offside hide with only 1 or 2 exceptions. The lead pellets also "mushroom" a bit on impact, which should lead to larger wound channels.

Again, just anecdotal, but another reason I don't go for plated, besides cost.

Personally, I like #4buckshot. I think you should consider your living situation. In an apartment I would use heavy birdshot, and if I didn't have any neighbors within several hundred yards I would use 00 buck and slugs.

Remington 000 (eight pellets) works well in my 870p w/20 inch barrel. Besides the nice tight pattern, I can count on impressive results at POI...

Big Boomer,

I am a shotgun noob myself ... but I've learned a lot from these fine folks at THR. So I guess take what I say with a grain of salt, as I am no expert. These are just my thoughts, hope it helps.

well, pattering is great, I can understand that, but when the shots are within 25 feet does it really matter?

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Not as much as if it were 25 yards, but personally I think patterning is still important, even at HD distances, in order to select the most consistent, tightest grouping load.

My father and I recently patterned his 12 ga Remington Spartan SxS coach gun (with standard cylinder barrels) for HD use using 3 different 2 3/4" buck loads. The closest we were able to set up a target for testing was 15 yards. Using packing paper, we drew an 8" circle on the target with a sharpie, and used the cap from a can of break free CLP to draw a small circle in the middle to aim at.

The following loads, with corresponding results, were tested:

- Winchester WinLite, 2 3/4", 00, 9 pellet, WL1200

Average spread: 10.5", excluding one flyer. Not too bad.

- PMC Low Recoil, 2 3/4", 00, 9 pellet, BSL1200

Average spread: 12.25" at 15 yds. Oddly, this particular load would make two, separate groupings of 4 pellets in one 5 in the other.

- Federal Vital Shok, 2 3/4", 00, 9 pellet, PFC154 00

This is the stuff with Federal's much touted "Flight Control Wad". After trying it, I must say that I am a believer.

Average spread: 6.5" at 15 yds. If I exclude the one flyer, that average drops to 4.75". We were impressed enough by the performance of the Federal Vital Shok to order a 100 shells of Federal Tacticle from Ammoman.com. Being a reduced recoil version of the load we tested, it should produce even tighter grouping.

Now, don't take my tests to be the Gospel, as your shotgun might like something completely different. Although I tell everyone now to at least give the Federal with Flight Control a try. I've heard it performs very well in a variety of shotguns.

As for birdshot for HD, my thoughts are in agreement with what the Box 'O Truth has to say: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm.

YMMV, as always.

Thanks, that was a good read.

We live out in the country, and there is no practical limit to the distance we can see in some directions. Still, defense is defense and it might well be hard to claim defense at extended ranges. The go-to long guns here are shotguns, though there are rifles on call as well if needed. Max effective range for buckshot we assume to be about 25 yards, beyond that it's slug time out to 100 yards or so.

We use Hornady TAP FPD 8-pellet 00 (red hull, full velocity, 2 3/4") as a buckshot load, since it patterns well at 25 yards in each shotgun here. For slugs we use Brenneke KO 1-ounce slugs, also 2 3/4"- also because they group well in each of the shotguns.

That's just what we use, not saying it's what's best for anyone else in other circumstances.

lpl/nc

201s.

201s ain't a brand name, a gauge, shell length, shot size, or anything else.

What these HD shells are, are the ones Mr. & Mrs. Pattern Board have assisted one in choosing for a particular shotgun, particular barrel, user and environments.

It does not matter what a shotgun , shotgun barrel, choke, box of ammo, mfg, someone else , Internet, even a known trainer such as Awerbuck says!

Awerbuck! Now what a darn minute! Better watch it there bud!

Betcha a Dr. Pepper Awerbuck backs me up!
<sets Dr. Pepper on 'puter desk>

Then just what the heck are these 201s of which you speak of?

Oh these 201s have been around forever.

One simply takes a look at environments they will have a HD/Business shotgun in.
Measure distances for the longest yardages and add one yard.

Make appointments with Mr. & Mrs. Pattern Board and arrive promptly with a variety of shotgun shells.
Shoot these varieties to determine:

1.Reliable in feeding and extraction.
2.Shoot Point of Aim/ Point of Impact (POA/POI)
3.Patterns for pellet loads such as Buckshot, Groups for Slug loadings.

One. Gun has to feed and extract ammunition.

Two. Shot placement is paramount, and this cannot occur if the ammunition does not fire, feed, or extract, repeat.
Firearms, especially shotguns must shoot where pointed/aimed. Shotguns are an extension of the user.
Therefore Gun fit, reliable ammunition, and the ammunition shooting POA/POI
is what determines the best ammunition for a particular firearm/shotgun, for that user , in a particular environment.

Three. One simply chooses from the varieties that have been reliable, shot POA/POI up to this point, and then further shoots allowing Mr. & Mrs. Pattern Board to assist in the pellet patterns, and slug patterns.

Awerbuck I understand does this exact thing for himself, with his various shotguns.
Hence the reason he asks students to do this before arriving for a class, and while in class, students do visit Mr. & Mrs. Pattern Board in regard to what ammunition is best for that student, with that gun, for their environments.

200 rounds of this ammunition is then shot to not only confirm 1, 2, and 3 above, also to ingrain the user in running the gun.

201s are therefore the shells investigated and verified that for you and your needs are the best ammunition choice for home / business defense.


Regards,

Steve

This is what I keep at the house. Super X (red hull), Sellier & Bellot (semi-transparent hull), both 00 Buck. I would not want to be on the receiving end of this. Both have 15 pellets.

Rob,

You beat me to it!