Why not a 20gauge for Home Defense?

20g will do just fine...slugs man slugs, that'd be my way.

On recoil:

ysr racer said:

When the "adrenaline dump' hits your brain becuase somebody is breaking into your house, you won't notice the recoil of a 10ga.

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and

Doc2005 said:

In terms of recoil sensitivity, in the throes of self-defense, I doubt the defender could reasonably be assumed to notice the difference between a 20 gauge and a 12 gauge. The adrenaline would have the person too hopped up.

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Fair enough.

As you practice with your HD gun, a gun that doesn't beat you up makes it more pleasant to BA/UU/R.

My HD shotgun is an 870 20 gauge youth with 2-shot Wilson mag extension and a cylinder bore deer slug barrel with rifle sights. I do not feel under gunned. It is loaded with No.3 buck in the mag, chamber empty. I wish there were other buck loads; I do not care to reload my own.

Like others have said pretty consistently, a 20 gauge is fine. IIRC, many of the fowlers of the revolution were about 62 caliber, which is a 20 gauge bore. They did just fine on small and large game and for defense.

I just went with a 12 gauge because IMO it offers more versatility and ammo is more common (at least the kind of ammo I want is ).
You can always get some reduced recoil 12 gauge loads and step it down but it's hard to step a 20 gauge up.

But it's still a good choice and about perfect for recoil sensitive people. Recoil might not matter during an actual defensive use but it will matter if you want to get that shooter to the range so he or she can learn to use the gun well.

And I suspect it would also be preferable for those people who are all about efficiency.

Curious as to how 12ga buckshot with reduced or "managed" recoil compares to standard 20ga? Any numbers?

velocity
engergy
# pellets
weight of shot shells
etc

Someone mentioned that 20ga guns tend to be lighter. Perhaps even moreso with fully loaded mag extensions?

THANKS!

I've got a pistol gripped 870 in 20 gauge that sits by the bed. I would prefer a 12 because perhaps bigger is always better, but I feel just fine with the 20 gauge.

One benefit is that my girlfriend can shoot it just fine, I don't think she could easily handle the recoil of a pistol gripped 12.

I tend to keep it loaded with #2 3 inch shells if I can find them. If no buckshot is available I'll just pick up some buckhammer slugs for it.

If you use a 20ga. for HD you have my solemn promise not to even try breaking into your home. Ever.

I only use a 12-gauge because I've had a couple of them for many years. The shorter SKB double (26" barrels) would be fine for HD.

On the other hand, I wouldn't hesitate to use a 20-gauge for a moment. Ammo choice might be more limited, but there's enough.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/3buck_cgaa.htm

#3 buck out of a 20 is going to do just as much damage as #4 buck out of my 12. Whichever gun fits best is the one to go with, and don't worry about gauge.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but at home defense ranges (5 - 15 feet, make that 1.5 - 3 yards?!) a good turkey load, even in a 20 guage would be sufficient, wouldn't it? I mean, at 10 yards (30 some feet) I've taken apart 2x4s with my 16 guage and #4 shot magnum loads...

I mention it for that reason and this one: based on a horrific personal experience, a ricochet with a lead bb load isn't quite at deadly as I'd think buckshot would be.

chemist308, I would tend to agree with you, but so far nobody has even touched my earlier comment about using .410 for home defense.

3'' .410 w/ slug compares favorably to .44mag, doesn't it?

I'm not a ballistician.
But from the stuff I have read and the gelatin tests I've seen, the word on the street is that you really shouldn't count on any birdshot for defense. It can make very nasty superficial wounds but it may not penetrate far enough to immediately stop an attacker.
Number 4 buck shot is considered about marginal and even inadequate by some. I still use it because smaller pellets mean less chance of overpenetration if I miss and because I can't imagine 21 .24 caliber pellets all hitting at once not stopping a threat. It would be about the same as a hi-cap magazine from a 10/22 - can you imagine someone coming through that with enough strength to hurt you? I can't.
I would think that a very large size shot (something around BBB or T) would also probably do if buck shot weren't available.

BTW - I've also seen how a shotgun can completely obliterate pretty much any target backer you put up. Plywood and pallets don't stand a chance against a box or two of birdshot. But they don't even have to penetrate an inch to tear the hell out of something like that and if you look closely, you'll often see that many of the pellets don't even penetrate clear through.
I'd prefer something that definitely will.

On the .410, with slugs it would almost certainly be as effective as about any handgun. But if you are using slugs, why not go with a 1894 Marlin and just use .357. It's cheaper than buying slugs and more accurate and you're getting comparable performance. According to Remington you'd have 654 ft lbs at the muzzle. A .357 from a 6" barrel isn't too far from that (around 510 ft lbs IIRC) and the extra 10" of barrel on the Marlin would add even more. They also hold more ammunition.
The buck shot loads for the .410 have never patterned well for me. They only hold about 3 000 or 5 00 pellets. That would be enough if they would put them all in something resembling a pattern but I've never seen that happen. It could probably be done but for the headaches associated with it and the possible legal problems from using handloads for defense, why not just buy a couple boxes of 20 or 12 gauge and be done with it?

Using a .410 for defense would make sense if you already had the gun and just wanted to get some defense ammo "just in case" but if you're buying a new gun I can't imagine why you'd go with a .410.
BTW - I still have one. It was my first gun and I still love it because of that, but I quickly outgrew it. Now I kind of wish it had been a 20 gauge.

YMMV

Well, I'm not really advocating a .410 as MY first choice for home defense, but the original poster was talking about an alternative to 20g for HD that would have reduced noise/recoil for small frame shooters like his wife who are intimidated by 12g shotguns. 16g or 20g may be fine. I don't know his wife, but if she's intimidated by a 12g shotgun and a .410 can do the job adequately, it might be the way for him to go.

That's the thing - I don't think it would.
Even with a full choke the patterns I have gotten usually don't look at all like patterns.
But those patterns were at about 20 yards. Maybe at indoor ranges it would do better.

There is nothing wrong with a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense, provided it is a repeater. By repeater, I refer to a pump or semi-auto design. A 20 gauge loaded with buckshot or slugs will meet your home defense needs. I generally recommend the 12 gauge because home defense loadings seem easier to locate for it than the 20. The price of 12 gauge shells may run less due to the law of supply and demand, but I advise you to check into the price differences between the two.


Timthinker

20 gauge

Hi All

The ballistics have been well discused and I feel confident that My 20 gauge loaded with Winchester 3 Buck 20 unplated lead pellets will do the job.

My choice is a Mossberg 500 Grand Slam turkey gun It has a 22 inch barrel but is only 39 1/4 overall without the chock and pad Actualy the same or shorter then some 18 1/2 ich barrel home defense 12 gauges. it is also only 6 3/4 lbs.

The main thing for me is that it truely is a hunting piece with the turkey tube chock I am sure it will hold a nice tight pattern , plus I like the looks of the ventelated rib and the Green Hard Wood finish and the fiber optic sights. It fits in better at the range then a all black home protector and a heck of a lot better looking in the field.
So It becomes a more useful shotgun for me . I like to get the max use for the $.

Take care
Alan

Shot size. I'm fairly sure that 20 gauge buckshot shells with #1 or larger buckshot are not readily available. Remington's sole buckshot shell uses 20 pellets of #3. Winchester, the same. Federal doesn't appear to make any buckshot or slug loads.

Slugs would probably do fine if overpenetration isn't a concern, though.

How much energy transfer does one expect between the projectile and the bad guy?

I pulled some 12 and 20 gauge slug data off of a manufacturer's web site. For 2 3/4" slug loads.....

12 gauge: 1 1/4oz (546 gr)
0 yds 1454 fps 2564 ft lbs
25 yds 1329 fps 2140 ft lbs

20 gauge: 7/8iz (385 gr)
0 yds 1502 fps 1929 fps
25 yds 1371fps 1607 ft lbs

Another question.....at in-house home defense ranges, say 15 feet, how many foot pounds of energy would be in the pattern of each round if it were something like #4 or #2 shot?

I realize that there is much to be considered in regards to adequate penetration for a CNS shot, but would the average person still be standing upright when someone delivers a 1000 foot pound blow to the chest? (assuming that much energy was transfered)

Welcome to The High Road, alanjr. Well put.

As Justin said, the only concern you should have is availability of premium HD ammunition. However i believe there are a few loads out there that more than do the job. I've never fired a 12 gauge, and as someone who had (and stupidly sold) a 20 gauge for years, i don't really have the desire to

20 gauge works. I keep a single shot 20 GA loaded with #3 buckshot for my house gun, with 5 more on a but cuff. Backed by a 9mm sigma with 15 round mags and a Smith and Wesson Model 10.

Most citizens follow LEO's in matters of defensive firearms, including long guns.

Both are adequate. If I was buying a used HD shotgun, I would buy a 20 gauge because they are less expensive. For the same reason, for a new HD shotgun, I would buy a 12 gauge because they have better resale value.
Richard
Schennberg.com