UK paper asks: What's wrong with shooting burglars?

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MicroBalrog

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What's wrong with shooting burglars? For 1,000 years, the
Common Law of England let homeowners use force if they
felt threatened by intruders until liberal judges
hijacked the law and set a twisted agenda of putting
criminals' 'rights' before those of ordinary people
The Mail on Sunday (England)
Page: 52
August 3, 2003

Byline: Peter Hitchens
You and your wife are alone in your house late at night. You
are woken by footsteps and banging downstairs. What do you do?
If you have any sense at all, you will do nothing and hope the
intruder goes away quickly. If he bursts into your bedroom, you
would be wise to submit to him and not to look at him too
carefully in case he gets the idea that you might be able to
identify him later.
You know that if you ring the police they will probably take
too long and may not come at all. And if you resist the thief,
attack or injure him, you are likely to find yourself in a
shared cell watching trash TV and eating prison slop with
plastic cutlery as you do your time.
You are even more likely to be sued shamelessly and
successfully in the courts by the man who has robbed you. If you
kill him, which at least means he cannot sue you or intimidate
you or come back for more, then the law will probably treat you
as a murderer, making no legal distinction between you and
Harold Shipman.
In the unlikely event that the thief is caught and
prosecuted, he and his friends will be free to terrorise you
into withdrawing your evidence, and the jury that hears the case
into acquitting him, since a feeble police force rarely, if
ever, acts to stop such things and often does not bother to
patrol court buildings any more.
If by any chance he is convicted, he will swiftly be
released under one of 'tough' David Blunkett's many schemes for
letting prisoners out as rapidly as possible. He might even come
back to steal whatever he left behind the first time.
Countless citizens, especially women living alone, now sleep
with some sort of weapon or blunt instrument by their beds in
case they are disturbed by thieves in the night.
Others, especially those living in the countryside where the
police have vanished, look thoughtfully at their legal firearms
and wonder if they dare use them, even as a deterrent.
This is the disgusting, pitiful state of the law of England
in 2003. Unless it is changed, it is only a matter of time
before the prosperous suburbs of Britain are laid waste and
plundered by armies of thieves, rightly confident that nobody
can or will stop them and that they will not be punished. It is
only the surviving illusion, on both sides, that we still live
in a policed and law-governed country that stops this happening
today.
Tony Martin, a strange and muttering loner, has won the
sympathy of millions not because he is a good example or because
he behaved well when he shot a burglar dead. His popularity is
the result of frustration and rage among the law-abiding who
feel that they could easily have acted as Martin did. They
probably won't because they are more worldly and have more
sense.
On the one occasion I spoke to Martin, shortly before his
trial, I told him he was very likely to be convicted. He was
astonished. He still thought he lived in an older England of
stout-hearted juries and robust judges where his action would be
excused if not applauded.
That country died some time in the past ten years. As
recently as 1993, Judge Daniel Rodwell awarded Malcolm Hammond
L300 for shooting two armed robbers who raided his home, saying:
'He showed great gallantry in tackling these dangerous men and
protecting his pregnant wife from further harm.' But the shadows
of political correctness were already deepening, though few
realised it at the time.
Six months later Mr Hammond was brought back to the same
court and fined more than L2,000 because the pistol he had used
was illegally held.
Mr Hammond always denied this and said he had wrestled the
gun from one of his assailants.
Once upon a time, nobody would have cared all that much, but
in John Major's semi-Socialist Britain it was slowly becoming
clear that the law was now neutral between 'offender' and
'victim'.
By the time Martin came to court it was even worse. The
system wanted to make it clear that it disapproved much more of
Martin for killing a burglar than it did of the fact that he was
burgled in the first place. Huge pressure was placed on Martin
to recant and show remorse for his action. He was kept in prison
far longer because he wouldn't.
No parallel effort was made to make burglar Brendan Fearon
do the same, though he was almost as responsible for the death
of Fred Barras as was Martin. In fact, the prison system
couldn't spit him out fast enough and despite Mr Blunkett's
bluster and demands for explanations the Home Secretary knew
perfectly well that this was the case.
Until recently, Englishmen were allowed to defend their
homes and to keep weapons, just as many Americans still do.
Partly because the US is still much more rural than we are,
and proper policing is impossible, the old English idea that a
burglar loses his rights when he breaks into someone's home is
still very much in force. That is why 'hot' burglary, where the
homeowner is in his house, is so much rarer there than here.
In Britain now we have the worst of both worlds police who
can't or won't protect us, and no right to protect ourselves.
How did this happen?
Some think it was the abolition of the old Common Law rules
by the Criminal Law Act in 1967. But actually this wasn't so. In
the hands of old-fashioned judges and juries, the 1967 defence
of 'reasonable force' would excuse almost any action.
What changed as in all the other great pillars of British
life were the people and the ideas that drove them.
The police chiefs stopped being old military men and were
replaced by social science graduates.
Guardian-reading Crown Prosecutors supplanted
battle-hardened police prosecution officers.
Respectable, middle-aged property-owning jurors in
three-piece suits disappeared to make way for slumped,
unemployed teenagers in shell suits.
The judges stopped being gnarled, disillusioned veterans of
the criminal courts and made way for Sixties idealists who think
criminals need help.
The law became a favourite profession for people whose views
were so wildly Leftwing that they could never win an election,
but who wanted political power anyway.
It was a clever move. At least until the Blair victory in
1997, elite liberal lawyers and judges, radical Home Office
civil servants progressive' prison governors and Left-wing
police chiefs were the most powerful radicals in the country.
Piece by piece, they took control of the law so that it
defied common sense and instead served their crackpot,
guilt-driven ideas of social justice.
Martin had to be punished severely because he had tried to
impose the old conservative law, which has now been abolished.
Anyone who was thinking of doing the same thing had to be warned
that on this, at least, the law would come down hard.
There was something very symbolic about the way Martin, once
convicted, was then seen being led away handcuffed to a female
guard, about as politically correct a message as you could send.
Was it perhaps deliberate?
And it was only when he claimed to have been sexually abused
as a child, the standard liberal excuse for all kinds of
misdeeds, that his conviction was reduced from murder to
manslaughter.
Interestingly, police officers who shoot suspects rashly or
by mistake tend to get let off. It wasn't because he had killed
someone that Martin was being punished, but because he had
challenged the new liberal monopoly of force.
All that would be bad enough.
But what makes it unbearable, and what brought it to boiling
point for Martin, is that the police have vanished at the same
time.
As police have been withdrawn from foot patrol, police
houses and stations in the countryside have been shut down in
great numbers.
The combination of weak law and absent constables has hit
isolated country dwellers first.
They know that if they call for help, none will come in
time, whereas the rest of us just suspect that this is so. Rural
people and those who rob them have realised as the rest of the
country is just beginning to do that we are now halfway back to
the Dark Ages.
The ridiculous temporary police station now sitting next to
Martin's farm does nothing to overcome this since it will sooner
or later have to be dismantled, and then where will Martin be?
And it is because Martin is a rather batty and
quick-tempered eccentric that he has been the first property
holder to discover the real nature of the new law. A more
normal, reasonable person would have submitted, or moved away,
or simply got rid of any valuable property so he had nothing to
steal.
Many of us already adapt and change our lives in this
defeatist way. Lots of police forces will give you a printed
label to say that there is nothing valuable in your car, for
instance.
But as we make these little surrenders, we know in our
hearts that we are running away from a foe we really ought to
confront, and leaving our children a legacy of lawlessness and
chaos.
It may be wise to give in, but it is also shameful. And that
is why so many of us are pleased when we see someone fighting
back, however foolish it may be for him to do so.
 
How did this happen?
Some think it was the abolition of the old Common Law rules
by the Criminal Law Act in 1967. But actually this wasn't so. In
the hands of old-fashioned judges and juries, the 1967 defence
of 'reasonable force' would excuse almost any action.
What changed as in all the other great pillars of "British
life were the people and the ideas that drove them.
The police chiefs stopped being old military men and were
replaced by social science graduates.
Guardian-reading Crown Prosecutors supplanted
battle-hardened police prosecution officers.
Respectable, middle-aged property-owning jurors in
three-piece suits disappeared to make way for slumped,
unemployed teenagers in shell suits.
The judges stopped being gnarled, disillusioned veterans of
the criminal courts and made way for Sixties idealists who think
criminals need help.
The law became a favourite profession for people whose views
were so wildly Leftwing that they could never win an election,
but who wanted political power anyway."

It can't happen here. Nawww.
 
Longeyes:

So then the UK's skyrocketing rate of serious and violent crime is more a result of a low and retrograde mentality amongst the badly educated, stridently left-wing Euro-socialists who make up its police and justice system, as opposed to simply low and retrograde laws.

It looks as if the justice system in the UK has been operating just like the police department in New London, Connecticut, it was found to be turning away recruits who tested as having too high an IQ. The theory was that people of average intelligence wouldn't make good police officers since they would become bored with the job.

Maybe the UK's solution would be to replace the current crop of boneheaded law enforcement personnel with new, more intelligent recruits.
 
most of you know what i will point out, so i'll start with the most glaring piece of nonsense in the whole article:

In the unlikely event that the thief is caught and
prosecuted, he and his friends will be free to terrorise you
into withdrawing your evidence, and the jury that hears the case
into acquitting him, since a feeble police force rarely, if
ever, acts to stop such things and often does not bother to
patrol court buildings any more.


The Courts take witness intimidation very seriously, as Hitchens well knows. Juries are, in certain cases, escorted to and from home or their tempoary residence by Police officers on Jury Protection duties. Each and every Magistrates Court and Crown Court in the land has Police Officers on duty attached to the Court, to say nothing of those officers who are giving evidence on that particular day.

You are even more likely to be sued shamelessly and
successfully in the courts by the man who has robbed you.


When Fearon successfully sues Tony Martin then Hitchens can make this statement - but he hasnt, and wont, because no Civil Court in the land will find in his favour. I am unaware of any rash of succesful crooks suing their victims that would otherwise enable Hitchens to make his claim.

Respectable, middle-aged property-owning jurors in
three-piece suits disappeared to make way for slumped,
unemployed teenagers in shell suits.


This is just old-style Tory elitism of the worst kind.

The combination of weak law and absent constables has hit
isolated country dwellers first.


Crime is, and has always been, and is so globally, much higher in city neighbourhoods than it is in rural ones. He may have a point when it comes to the withdrawl of the Police Houses from towns and villages, but then one cannot recall any statements of his, or other Tory writers, objecting when the Thatcher and Major administrations performed all of its cutbacks and economy drives that lead to this state of affairs. In one way its like the Countryside Alliance's moaning about the closure of rural shops - if they didnt bloody drive their Land Rovers to the big out of town Sainsburys every weekend then those shops would still be in business.




:rolleyes:
 
Juries are, in certain cases, escorted to and from home or their tempoary residence by Police officers on Jury Protection duties.
That must be so the thugs know which house to break into after the "escorts" round the corner with their rube of a juror. I reckon once they know which house to break into, that kidnapping the family members - for reasons of extortion - should be something that even a Brit could figure out.
 
Duncan Idaho:

I reckon once they know which house to break into, that kidnapping the family members - for reasons of extortion - should be something that even a Brit could figure out.

Not the "Plods." Apparently they are selected for low IQ.
 
It may be wise to give in, but it is also shameful. And that is why so many of us are pleased when we see someone fighting back, however foolish it may be for him to do so.

I guess the British enjoy vicarious courage more than the genuine article. As for me, rarely does a day pass when I fail to feel grateful to our forefathers for having rebelled against the English and founded a republic.
 
It's about time that somone wrote an article like that.:)

In the unlikely event that the thief is caught and
prosecuted
all to true, a ricent example of the way that there either isn't enough LEO's to do the job or the possabillity that they just can't be bothered.

Only this week a young boy's body was found localy with no ID, on a Railway line after 2-3 trains had allready run over the body, the body was found to have several bruses and other injurys that as the report said "may have caused or contributed to the death", but despite the circumstances and what little florisic evidence they had gathered pointing to a possable homicide, the Police dismissed the death as "Not Suspisious"

they did the same with another EXTREMELY Suspisious death several months ago, a man had gone missing, his famly reporting his dissapearance after 2 days of his not returning home.2 days later his car was found abandond, around 4-5 days later his severed head was found on the shore of Loch Lomond, shortly after that "pices" of him were found scattered all over the UK.
and the Police deemed it as "Not Suspisious".

the same happened with another only 3 months ago when a backpacker found a man's torso on a trail in a rural area, and that was still "Not Suspisious"....

If those deaths aren't Suspisious, I'm not sure what is....
police
houses and stations in the countryside have been shut down in
great numbers.
Also True, but not restricted to rural areas, the area I live in has a population of around 180,000 and they shut down all but one police station which only now has a skeleten crew of 3-5 Pollice.
if you call for the police to respond, they have to come from a city that's over 30 miles away.
 
This discussion began with the following question. " UK paper asks: What's wrong with shooting burglars? "

It strikes me that the question aught to be addressed to the British Court/Legal System, as it currently exists.
 
What's wrong with shooting burglars?

I have no idea.

I have nothing against it.
 
zedicus,

whereabouts in the UK do you live?

edit: no news website i can find has links to the story you suggest, aside from the "limbs in the loch" murder trial from 2001 for which a man was found guilty and sentenced to life. I cannot find any links to the first story. Do you have any?
 
You know, reading Agricola's response to the article, my impression of British politics as consisting only of outright class warfare is reinforced.

When Fearon successfully sues Tony Martin then Hitchens can make this statement - but he hasnt, and wont, because no Civil Court in the land will find in his favour.

Whether or not he wins his suit is really quite immaterial, given that the British government has funded said lawsuit. Juries in the United States have, unfortunately, awarded damages to criminals injured in the act of committing their crimes, but our federal government has yet to fund any of these lawsuits.
 
Actually, if a burgular broke into my home, I could only shoot him if he threatened my life or that of other occupants. If he ran away or took something and left, I could not LEGALLY shoot him. In theory, however, I am of the opinion that burgulars are nothing more than moving targets.
 
seeker_two quoted and wrote the following:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UK paper asks: What's wrong with shooting burglars?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Nothing, in my opinion...

Britons have to protect themselves from home invasions, being that the LEO's & court system there doesn't seem to be concerned with the problem....

Problem with that statement is the following, at least as I understand things.

In U.K., government, that being law enforcement, the legislature(Parliment) and the judiciary, along with special interest groups have made it virtually impossible for the British Mr., Mrs. or Ms. Everyman to do that, "that" being to protect themselves from home invasions, let along from violence on the streets.

One notes, in passing, that the above mentioned groups, entities or whatever one might choose to call them NEVER admit error, no matter how blatant the errors of their ways. Given the resord of past performances, they aren't very likely to take the necessary, and or indicated corrective actions either.
 
alan,

One notes, in passing, that the above mentioned groups, entities or whatever one might choose to call them NEVER admit error, no matter how blatant the errors of their ways. Given the resord of past performances, they aren't very likely to take the necessary, and or indicated corrective actions either.

once again, this is something easily disproved:

http://www.met.police.uk/news/stories/damilola_verdict.htm


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,856697,00.html
seeker_two,

You've been told, several times.
 
Agricola:

Re the links you provided, thank you, however a couple of newspaper stories and so forth, from where I sit, these days in the U.S., though many years ago I lived and worked for a while in London, do not really answer the question.

The "question", by the way, is as follows. The government of U.K. has essentially completely disarmed the law abiding, correct me if I'm in error. Additionally, self defense, is looked upon as the most questionable of actions. Again please correct me if I'm in error, as there certainly is the possibility that I've misread and or misunderstood things.

Has "government" shown any realization of the very serious errors inherent in the course that they have chosen to follow re the above? I think not, however I certainly could be wrong. Aside from the question of realizations, has "government" shown or indicated in any way at all, the willingness or the ability to change course, or to even consider so doing? Again, I think not but I could be wrong on that too.

So sir, should it turn out to be that I'm all wet, let me know, however respecting the case of this seemingly sorely put upon farmer, I do not think that such is the case.

All the best .

Alan

Addendum: The links you provided discuss one particular case, the murder of a "young person", who would not likely be eligible, in most parts of the world, to carry anything much in the way of defensive weaponry. My comments are more general in nature, dealing with "government policy", in the broad sense of the term.
 
alan,

you said various groups never acknowledged their mistakes. This was clearly in error.

Self defence is still upheld in the courts. The Martin case was not about self defence, because a jury of his peers, with access to all the evidence, found that it was not self defence to shoot Barras in the circumstances that he did.
 
Just because 12 members of a jury found him guilty does not mean he was so. Let's say I were to shoot someone in self-defense and was put on trial. If there are a majority of active pro gun people on the jury, they would probably see it my way and I would be aquitted. However, if a majority of the jurors were from the VPC or Brady bunch, whichever, I would probably be found guilty, regardless of the judge's instructions.
 
What a terrific article. The Brits are waking up! When the letters to the editor comes out, please share them.

They've got a terrific uphill battle though and I wish them luck.

The only rights a criminal should have are last rites.
 
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