Dealing W/ Anti-Gun Cops

I remain rather curious about all the input from the state of Illinois (with its draconian firearms restrictions) ... no personal experience seems to have been related ...

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My comments regarding the Chicago PD are based either on personal observation or documented news stories and or court cases. Go to the Chicago Tribune or Sun Times websites and do a search on "Weems", "Pleasance", "Abbate", "Burge", etc. You'll find links, links to links and links to links to links.

Entrenched, big-city police department corruption still doesn't (to me) have a bearing on this particular thread, nor how one, as gun-carrying individual, deals with a law enforcement officer, who at the beginning of a citizen-cop encounter, seems to declare himself (or herself) of the opinion that a citizen shouldn't be packing ... I'm thinking that personal accounts of how members have dealt with this sort of situation in the past are much more germane to this thread.

" Well, officer, when you get a call to a violent crime in progress, what percentage of the time do you get there in time to prevent injury to the victim? That's what I thought."

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I like that one Nnobby

Entrenched, big-city police department corruption still doesn't (to me) have a bearing on this particular thread, nor how one, as gun-carrying individual, deals with a law enforcement officer, who at the beginning of a citizen-cop encounter, seems to declare himself (or herself) of the opinion that a citizen shouldn't be packing ... I'm thinking that personal accounts of how members have dealt with this sort of situation in the past are much more germane to this thread.

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Actually, I imagine that you're as likely to get hassled there as any place else, if not more so, even NOT carrying. I wear an NRA ballcap pretty much everywhere I go. I almost ALWAYS have a gun book or a copy of Smallarms Review with me, whether in my own car or driving my mother's. If you don't think those things can trigger harassment in themselve, you're not paying attention.

I wear an NRA ballcap pretty much everywhere I go. I almost ALWAYS have a gun book or a copy of Smallarms Review with me, whether in my own car or driving my mother's.

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And to think, I thought those Midwestern cops had more important things to worry about rather than hassling citizens sporting NRA ballcaps with a copy of G&A on the car seat ... um, really, isn't this just grasping at straws now, and not really concerned with the real issue?

If you don't think those things can trigger harassment in themselve, you're not paying attention.

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Au contraire, old chap. I am paying attention (and I get paid to), but thanks nonetheless for that subtle slapdown.

I remain rather curious about all the input from the state of Illinois (with its draconian firearms restrictions) ... no personal experience seems to have been related

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Geographically, most of Illinois is OK. The cops here outside of a few jurisdictions are mostly decent human beings doing their jobs pretty much as most of us would want them to, probably like most areas.

The real problem is that most of the population lives in Daleyistan, where it is not that simple. Chicago PD is about on par with NO, DC, and NYC as far as abusing the citizenry. It seems there is a new outrage every day.

Some of the outrages are not quite what they appear to be, but enough of them are that the CPD has well earned its bad rep.

Oddly enough, Daley has selected a retired FBI Mr Clean type to head the CPD. I can't even imagine what possessed him to do that. Supposedly, the first thing Mr Clean did was have his office swept for bugs.

And to think, I thought those Midwestern cops had more important things to worry about rather than hassling citizens sporting NRA ballcaps with a copy of G&A on the car seat ... um, really, isn't this just grasping at straws now, and not really concerned with the real issue?

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Have you done a Google search on "Burge", "Weems", or "Abbate" and "Chicago Police" yet?

The Chicago PD seems to have endless amounts of time on its hands, certainly enough to have stayed in the news for over a year, by virtue of their physical attacks on citizens, home invasion rings, etc.

The Chicago PD seems to have endless amounts of time on its hands, certainly enough to have stayed in the news for over a year, by virtue of their physical attacks on citizens, home invasion rings, etc.

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Don't forget the chief of detectives who was running a burglary ring out of his office.

I have some sympathy for the decent cops in CPD. There are bound to be a lot of them who don't like things the way they are, but they have no way to improve things.

Some people would argue they should fight the evil that is within their department. But, I would ask just how would you have them do so? There are very few Serpicos out there with the moral fortitude to go against his brothers in blue. It is very rare.

I have some sympathy for the decent cops in CPD. There are bound to be a lot of them who don't like things the way they are, but they have no way to improve things.

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The problem is that the ORGANIZATION is fundamentally corrupt. Individual officers are now effectively irrelevant. Three examples:

1. The Weems case. Weems got a ***30 day suspension*** for a killing that AT THE VERY BEST could be construed as negligent homicide, and more likely 2nd degree murder. Superintendent Cline overruled a recommendation that Weems be fired, imposing instead the suspension. Cline and Weems are friends.

2. The officer who savagely beat a man handcuffed to a wheelchair is COMING OFF OF a 2 year suspension. Exactly what about him would the Chicago PD be the lesser for were he not a member?

3. At every step of the way, Officer Abbate was shown deferential treatment after his bestial battering of the barmaid, from refusal to arrest him in rehab, to arrest without handcuffs, to shielding him from the media.

Discipline is simply nonexistant in the Chicago PD, and as a fundamental policy of that organization.

The problem is that the ORGANIZATION is fundamentally corrupt.

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I think that is a fair statement. And the only guy that can really fix it is himself fundamentally corrupt.

Maybe Mr. Clean can fix things, but I am betting that part of the deal for his $300k a year is that he makes few waves.

Secondcitycop.blogspot.com has a lot of interesting stuff. One thing they have pointed out several times is that according to their count there are only about 9500 sworn officers, while the city budget says there are 13,500. The salaries and benefits for 4000 cops is a big chunk of money.

"Because history proves that government agents are not to be trusted with the defense of life and liberty"

"Because people like you have them"

"Because I'm a citizen, not a subject"

Probably the best one is

"I'm not interested in conversing with you on any topic. Please tell me what I am legally required to do to be on my way."

that's the way i would answer..and if i've done anything wrong, lets go to court.

Old Dog,

Don't forget that CPD has supplied firearms, ammo and suppressors to criminals. CPD gives lessons to Boston, NYC, New Orleans, inter alia in corruption. Theft, Bribery, Robbery, Burglary, Ghost Employment, Drug Dealing, I cannot think of a crime that CPD is not involved in. Perhaps Securities Fraud, but I had better call people at the CBoT first.

If there are any police officers inside CPD who do not approve of the systemic criminal activity of this department and city, then I am unaware of any such organization or even public comment by those officers. When I am away from the tourist areas of Chicago, I fear for my safety from CPD. I would much rather bump into BGD than CPD.

I had my experience with the Chicago Police Department in 1993.

In 2003 a police officer in Wheatfield, Indiana threatened to arrest me for following the law (open carry of pistol).

Plenty of experience of experience in rogue/bad police interactions here.

treo , I hear that!

I was framed as a civilain for hit and run on a lamp post. I wasn't convited of anything, but it all had costs in time and money.

When the DA found I would not fall for his threats, he kept reducing charges to see if i would bite for lesser than nothing. I didn't bite.

In the public court room lobby he called my wife the "c" word! All because i wouldn't go into a room 1 on 1 with him. Looking back I wish I had.

I walked free, but that didn't quite turn out to be the end of the tale.

He, that DA got his a$$ BUSTED for 514 counts of tampering with boys.. That was reduced to 4 felonies, which he is STILL serving time for!

In court he was astonished when I asked the Judge to swear him in. The court asked why I would want such a thing, and my rely was "I know this man to be a liar." The Judge said "fair enough", so the DA was sworn in, but it didn't stop his lies.

The system? What system, if any it is, The Sytem of he who has the most dollars!, Or the system on in- justice.

To me cops are just other men.. You want to cuff me an you are going to have a fight on yer hands..

I used to know cops who dealt drugs and smoked pot. When I say drugs I don't mean pot. A day of reconing is forth coming, and if the cops don't weed out the bad ones themselves they can expect "We the people " will do it for them.

As I said before I have never been asked if I had a gun, or any weapon, but if I was I would be telling that cop about the Murders back in Easter 99' when the SWAT was afraid to protect 2 elderly folks, one a current lawyer and the other a x 30 years Army man , plus 30 more in Kodak, under classified.

I will never forgive it, never. The fact the Fire Dept got there first, and the distance was 3 city blocks and insight visually I just can't cut it..

Any cop pulling me over had better have a good story because if he don't, thar's no tellin who will go home that night.

This isn't all either, but if I run too long no one will read it.

Any cop pulling me over had better have a good story because if he don't, thar's no tellin who will go home that night.

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We have a term for guys like you, Macmac. Guys who make threats against other people. Guys who threaten others because they don't like their skin color, or ethnicity, or their jobs.

I'll subsitute that term for a nicer one, it's a Jewsish phrase I've always liked: SHMUCK.

That just might be, but then it wasn't your SWAT team that failed my inlaws.

Like I said I take people as I find them.. What the color of their skin is means nothing, what ethnicity they have means nothing, nor what they do for a living, so long a it isn't pushing people around for no real reason.

The fact is you as a LEO will not act untill a crime has been commited.

The guy that Murdered my elderly in law was busted for stealing knives in a store, and your system bailed his tail end out. He then took one of these knives and hacked my in-laws to death, not 3 city blocks for the cop shop.

I will never for give this. You can call me anything you like, but I would prefer it face to face.

I don't fear you personally, and I don't fear others that do your job, but either do the job, or get out.

I happen to be a citizen of the USA, an that makes me top dawg, not a so called public servant.

Might be you are a good cop, but then it might be you are not.

You are correct in that this topic makes me hot. I no longer have fear of death, or man, because not one showed the sligest interests in my in-laws.

It was me who cleaned up the mess inside the house! it was me than cleaned the blood and guts from all the places 2 elderly folks ran. This gore was on everything as you can well imagine. It was in files on the file cabinets, in the sliders in the bathrooms, on the stairs and on a black leather chair where untill I stood up I didn't see BLOOD.

Just where was SWAT I have no idea.

I have seen this, I have shot a man in self defence after calling 4 times for help to be told "Police are not personal body guards".

That guy was wanted as well for drug related and violent crimes.. No police will help. So when a call for help and none comes, a private citizen learns who will do what when.

Call me what ever you like, it for sure won't change my mind. In fact it will just further seal the deal.

I am not the problem your brothers are, if you yourself are not.

On the roadside I give common courtisey I would give to anyone, but i don't cowtou, quivver and beg.. The worst they can do is kill me, and I have no fear of death...

In the instance of being given reasonable requests, I will abide, but I refuse to be pushed 1 inch. In the past I found one inch leads to a win, and that win leads to a mile, and I just don't do it that way anymore.

I might not get to go home, but that is the chances you take these days. There are bad guys, and then some are bad cops.

I am more like Patrick Henery.. Give me Liberty or Give me Death.. it's all the same thing to me.

I spent 10 months on a motorcycle in the USA armed with a Kimber .45 CD Pro II. I openly preformed civil disobeance in the form of ccw carry. I just don't care. I hit 40 states and was legal in about 18.

I was never stopped one time, but on the other hand I did stop several times to help stranded motorists, all but one I was able to get running again.

The one was on a new custom chopper and his ignition went dead. There were no parts in the Bad Lands National Park, and he did get a truck and trailer by the time we parted ways.

I have pulled cops and their cruisers from snow banks in my New Hampshire, so I am not all bad assed. I just don't take crap handed on a badge from anyone ever anymore.

As a citizen I expect to be treated accordingly, with courtisey. Respect is an earned thing as I see life. There is no uniform I just respect demanded or not.

If I was speeding which i haven't been caught for since 87' I will take the ticket no problem. If a lamp is out I will take that ticket too.

Ask me for an instant search for no reason as I don't do drugs and I don't drink and drive, then the answer is no.. If then I get bullied there will be trouble.

I am 56 and have seen more than my fair share of people in certain so called places in life bully others because they can.

I have been beaten by cops because I have long hair and they wanted that to mean I had drugs. At that time I was cuffed to a steel rail in the cops garage. I had done nothing other than have long hair.

I still have that long hair. Charlie Daniels with his long hair country boy tune sums me up pretty well other than I don't smoke pot.

Treated fairly, I behave the same way. Just don't push me. Note I didn't quote MASTEROFMALICE calling me a name, and I didn't respond calling him any name.

It takes a lot more than being called a name to set me off. Now recalling the blood and guts of my lovin' brides parents sets me off, and I get Hot..

Where there is a problem as I see things , is where MASTEROFMALICE will trust his brothers in blue, for no more reason than they are like him.

I am a Biker, and I don't allow other bikers I ride with to be less than courtieous to others. If they act that way i split, and that is the end of that.

If I was paid as a biker (i wish), I would excercise a little more than just split..

I would weed out the bad ones..

I also once did historical living events for children in schools, and was paid to present a character at certain years in the past history of the United States of America.

The last day I did one of those was the very day of Columbine.

By contract i was hired, and the school by contract was to inform the police way before hand. I found long before that last day the police will not confirm such things, so i would find from the police myself if they had infact been informed. At this event like all others the police had been informed.

When I arrived at the school I was met by 6 state police cars, and 12 troopers. They formed a circle around me, and one stepped up and said you can't do this event with any weapons, can you still do the event?

Unfortuantley, he was actting rather smuggly, and so not being pushed so easy i reached for a dress, and placed this over his chest lightly and smiled.

Oh you would be safe thinking I just made a enemy, because the other 11 burst into laughter. Had he just not been so smug, things would have worked out better, and his frail ego would not have been challanged.

Well, I gathered my things, other than bow drill, flint and steel, my Nor West gun and the hawks and we all entered that school.

As always I began with 30 kids, which soon turned to 90, and then the enitre school body, plus 12 state troopers LOL. We all ended up outdoors, and I did the entire deal less the muskets and the fires bits, but when I was done some 4 hours later, one of the state troopers asked if I would be willing to go ahead with the missing parts. Of course I said yes.

One trooper went with me to get the rest of my gear, and asked to see how and what would be done, and I showed him, explaining each step.

We then went back to the assembly and I repeated it live this time. I made fire with the bow drill, and the flint and steel, and made the musket "speak".

Since then I have always wondered about that 12th trooper in the dress

Uh, so, Treo, all your questioning threads regarding cops, and your absolute distrust of cops, are spawned from that horrible experience with MPs on a military base back in '91? ...

And Deanimator, illbob, El Tejon ... was not the original post asking about dealing when anti-gun cops and revealing, or not revealing, one's CHP/CHL/CPL/CCW license status? Although I find the sordid history of law enforcement in the greater Chicago area quite fascinating, I still can't seem to tie it in with the topic at hand ... which is, after all, packing a firearm (which one doesn't do in Illinois) and dealing with those recalcitrant SOB cops who don't support a citizen's right to keep and bear arms.

As far as our friend macmac is concerned, well, ya kinda seem to have a chip on your shoulder, bud. A good cop is not demanding, or even asking for, respect simply because he's got a badge, a gun, a uniform and the power to pull you over ... all he (or she) wants is the same common courtesy you'd extend the check-out girl at the supermarket, the guy who delivers your pizza, the nurse taking your vitals at the doctor's office ... for cryin' out loud, folks, some of you seem to instantly assume an adversarial stance toward law enforcement just based on g.p.

Old Dog, I give police common courtisey, what they do next is what sets the basis of communications.

I learned to not call for assistance because when I did they told me, "Police are not personal body guards."

I called 4 times, then I shot the the x con, and never even got a ride down town. So why call ever again?

After the shooting I called the 5th time to say so, and was told the guy once they had him wounded, was wanted for 6 bench warrents, was an x con for who knows what, the ones he was wanted for were related to drugs and violent crimes, AND the cops had to break both this guys thumbs since he was caught in the act of choking some girls infant to death!


I was polite and courtious. Just not very impressed.

I was less than impressed the guy the stabbed my father in law and his wife to death was busted for stealing knives in a store, and in the process shot by the cops in the ankel. never the less he was out on bail in hours and preformed the deed.

It is amazing the Fire Dept got there before SWAT. To go 3 city blocks in 3 hours is unacceptable. Once again I find that calling didn't get a thing done. All the local neighbors called, as this mess ended in the street, where my elderly relitives died in the gutter, being stabbed in the teens of times.

My father in law was a 30 years Army man, and 30 more years at kodak under "classsified", so to me a man of merit.

As a teen I was beaten for the crime of long hair, cuffed to a railing in the cop shop garage, with the probable cause of being a drug dealer, except I wasn't.

I have a poor history with cops which I didn't build the cops did.

The tale abouve where I drapped a dress for a women over the state trooper because he was smug and I could. I know the game and have part to play.

I am a hard ass no doubt, but I don't start the game they do, not me.

I had once cop friends, and because I moved I don't see them, but they are no longer cops. But just the same I got a deal on a Remington Rand when the Govt dumped them for the Berretta, so I am not all that bad.

That deal was to buy any guns for the PD there had to be purchased of 3 minimum. With out asking me these 2 cops who wanted the deal asked he chief to buy one so there would be 3, but the chief didn't want one so authorised me instead with out anyone telling me.

I did buy one once informed, who wouldn't.

So what I do depends on what you do, and what anyone does, which just so happens to include cops.

To me cops are a bit to close to being Judge, Jury and Executioner, all wrapped in one. What happens to be their opinion is taken as the Truth in courts, and just maybe there is no other truth to th court.

I have been pushed to far and refuse to be pushed again, not easy anyway.

That above chief is now serving time for extorsion, and embezzelment.

In another tale above there is yet another Lt. actting as DA, who os also serving time for child molestation. he tried to fram me for a felony hit and run, and he knew he was just playing a game.

He called my wife the "c" word in front of me in th ourt room lobby.

I didn;t take so kindly to his threats and calling my wife that word.

I would ask how you would feel about all these things had it been you?

Me: I have been taught to avoid police at all costs.

Another was May 16th 06 when my motorcycle was stolen. That cop refused to take evidence. Evidence was plainly available, and he simple refused and told me to get lost to boot. That event was worth a total of $15,000.00 when all was said and done, and then he refused to give my insurance company a report and any other info...

Nope not me.. When I do a job, no matter what, even wash a dish or sweep a floor you can bet I do a bang up job, any job I do is worth doing right.

Oh yeah the system... Ho Ho Ho You should see the "Document" I was sent after the bike thief was caught. I recieved a summons to court, and that ourt document has my name wrong 6 times, my gender wrong once, and all sorts of open blank spaces illegal by the LAW.

A child in Kindergarten could have done a better job.

This resulted in more threats against me. The DA assistant called my wife while I was away at work and told my wife to decide in my place as to how i would travel. When my wife told that women she would have to at least relay the message, before anything could be determined sine I wasn't aware of anything that women told my wife "Ya'll better git yer man to be here!"

My wife told her she never tells me to "git" any place.

I was the victim of the crime and then I was the victim of the systyem.

I don't make a good victim.

As to the cops and gun I answered that long ago in this thread.

I consider the varioius state laws infringment of my rights.. So I just ignor these states and pass as I wish.

There is a Fedral Law that covers this.

So long as you are legal where ever you start a trip, and will be legal where ever the trip ends, you are legal to pass thru states that other wise you might not be legal.

In states like these I placed my firearm in a locking box, also locked in my hard saddle bags.. The only way to get my firearm then would be illgeal search.

I don't put on pants with out a gun on them, and most days I carry 2 guns...

To me there is very little difference between the bad guys and the cops..

I didn't make it this way.... I have been arrested before, but I have never been convicted of anything ever. I really don't like the game.

If we all thought like many do here on this thread we would still be Governed by ENGLAND. Unfortunately our own Govt is becoming much like ENGLAND was in 1773.

And Deanimator, illbob, El Tejon ... was not the original post asking about dealing when anti-gun cops and revealing, or not revealing, one's CHP/CHL/CPL/CCW license status? Although I find the sordid history of law enforcement in the greater Chicago area quite fascinating, I still can't seem to tie it in with the topic at hand ... which is, after all, packing a firearm (which one doesn't do in Illinois) and dealing with those recalcitrant SOB cops who don't support a citizen's right to keep and bear arms.

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Not a bad point. However, you have to be careful when telling people to trust cops. Some of you have obviously never experienced living in an area with rogue cops running amok. Its not a bad bet in some areas. In other areas its not such a good bet.

or cryin' out loud, folks, some of you seem to instantly assume an adversarial stance toward law enforcement just based on g.p.

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The Chicago Police Department took an "adversarial stance" toward the general population, especially the non-White population, long before either of my parents were born. It's a stance born of an attitude of entitlement and being above the law, in fact, if not in statute.

Do I trust the cops where I live? More or less. At least I don't EXPECT them to commit violent crimes on a routine basis. You make such an assumption regarding the Chicago PD at your own peril. And yes, I assume that ANY encounter with the Chicago PD is likely to be a bad one involving criminality or at best churlishness, on their part. But then I don't expect pleasant encounters with the Black Gangster Disciples either, and the difference between the two is vanishingly small.

As was posted before... If you live in an area with "rogue cops" Move. If you live in a state that has oppressive gun laws, either vote for people who will change them, or live with them, or move. Simple solutions.

The best advice I can give for dealing with anti-gun anyone is... Don't do illegal stuff. Have a valid license, drive a car that everything works on, and don't go 100mph everywhere. How about trying to AVOID the stop in the first place? No stop=no hassle. If the cops know your car (and if they do, it's probably due to you not following the above advice already...) Buy a new car. (Different color and model preferably) Get a haircut. Clean up your act. Behave like a law abiding, responsible person.

I find it amazing that, any person I arrest for Meth, or any other drug violation, or for the 25th domestic disturbance at their house in a month, always claims the POLICE are hassling him. Boo hoo. Don't be a meth head dirt bag, stop beating your wife, kids, mom, drive a car that will pass inspection, and the hassle will go away. Has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment, or any other. Be a responsible citizen, and you won't have a problem. Be a jerk, and you will be treated accordingly. It's pretty simple really. People tend to get like they give. If you ain't happy with the police in your area... Move. Go somewhere that the police act, or don't act like you want. Best part of living in the US. If you ain't happy in (insert location here) there are plenty of other places to live.

W.E.G., Your reply makes me smile everytime I think about it.

El Tejon, You have it nailed. Better to just be polite and get out of there as soon as possible without pissing anyone off.