Mitchell's Mausers

To start I don't know what the story is with the German K98 Mausers, so I'll stick with the M48's. I bought an M48 from Mitchells several years ago and when I got it, it was in new condition and not refininshed. I've heard they refinish the K98's, but this is an M48. I've also have never seen Mitchell's advertise an M48 as German. They clearly state that the M48 is a K98 variant but that it is in fact a Yugo made after the WWII.

There seam to be a lot of fantasies out there. People who read alot of post but not the actual adds. People who talk at gun shows but haven't seam an actual Mitchells. I've seen M48's for a better price, but I have yet to see an M48 in the same condition as mine for less money. Sure you can buy 1 for 150.00 in beat up condition, but the price doubles when it's like new.

My MM M48 was not refinished, and was in like new condition. It's a fact.

Lovesbeer,

I'm sorry to have to say this, but you are mistaken; every rifle that comes out of MM has been scrubbed and cleaned. They do not sell unmolested rifles. They are in business to scrub, molest and devalue Mauser rifles.

The harsh truth is that you don't have a non-refinished MM "M48 in like new condition". You have a scrubbed rifle that has ZERO mauser collector value. You have a rifle that looks nice but is void of any true historical value other than being a footnote as to how MM altered M48 rifles to be more aesthetically pleasing to the "un-informed eye".

You mentioned the high price that MM places on their M48's and you justify it by saying that the price was high because they "sell excellent condition" M48 rifles. Here is the issue, you said you bought your M48 from MM several years ago and feel good about your purchase because you feel you got a really good conditioned rifle...WELL: Several years ago M48's in excellent condition M48's were selling for around $100 everywhere, AIM, Interordanance, J&G, Sarco, etc. You didn't get a good deal several years ago, since the going rate of a true "excellent NRA condition" rifle was about 25% of what you paid...
Only recently has the price gone up on excellent condition M48's, so using today prices to justify the price you paid several years ago really doesn't make sense.

You see, MM buys the cheap and cruddy M48's that other distributors don't want. They get them for rock bottom prices, then they pay some hired hands to belt sand and scrub them and then they turn out the "new condition" rifles and price them at 4 Times what they paid for them. This is their M.O.

Only recently have they changed their advertisement verbage to counteract the internet backlash they were receiving, either way, they are still ripping people off that have little pertinent "mauser" information and sell a "shiney" product to people that don't know exactly what they are buying.

I'm glad you like your M48, but understand that it is not what you think it is. I enjoy shooting my M48's that I obtained with my C&R 03 FFL as well as researching and studying the Mauser rifles. I'm not trying to infuriate you, just trying to help you better understand the rifle that you have.

I have an open mind and I'm willing to concede that MM may be refinishing all their rifles, but I have yet to see any proof. All I see is internet hear say. I'd think that if anyone had actuall proof there would be a class action suit of some sort. Some gun mag would have reported on it. There would be some evidence other than what is written on the net.

My gun looked, (still looks) pretty good. I don't see how they could have kept the chamber shiny and rifling so strong with a refinish. Maybe the blue and the stock but the rifling? If they did refinish my rifle, than hats off cuase they did a great job.

Welcome aboard rjostma.

TexasRifleman said:

Why does this sound like a MM employee here?

First post to tout a well known scam?

Alrighty then.

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Personally, I would give rjostma the benefit of the doubt and view him as a satisfied customer of MM. It could very well be MM had serviced rjostma and his friends properly and fairly. I've never dealt with them myself as I've found M48As locally to my satisfaction, one being in pristine condition for less than half of what MM sells them for. (I have, however, never seem any of the offerings from MM first hand.)

Personally, I would give rjostma the benefit of the doubt and view him as a satisfied customer of MM.

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Certainly a possibility, just seemed odd.

I have a buddy that bought a used MM recently. It appears to be a 98K, (at least it has the eagle and the swastika), the stock is very nice except for a cheesy Afrika Korp decal on the side. It shoots about the same as my 24/47. Now my guess is that this was a RC 98K. I'm a little dubious about some of the stampings and that decal is obviously fake, but for $300 I think he got a pretty decent deal. It's a nice looking, functional rifle with a good finish for about the same price as a much rougher Russian Capture. I'd probably be scared to find out what someone originally paid for this bit of fakery, but for a range toy I think my buddy did OK.

I hope those folks that are happy with their MM M48s aren't using surplus ammunition in them. You should trust only Mitchell's Premium Ammunition in a Mitchell's rifle

http://www.mauser.org/ammunition/index.htm

By far the biggest Mitchell's scam is their Lugers and P-38s. These refinished, apparently non-matching (since they don't say they match, they almost certainly do not), are nothing shot of robbery. You'd have to be a first-class sucker to buy one of these:

http://www.mauser.org/autopistols/hist_p-08 luger/index.htm

http://www.mauser.org/autopistols/hist_p-38 walther/index.htm

I got one more comment.. Since when is $400 a days pay?

I was wondering that myself. To be getting $400 for a days pay, you'd have to be making about $70 an hour before taxes.

I dunno, near a half a months pay to me. But maybe that's the point- some people prefer instant gratification despite a higher price versus the "hassle" of making informed buying choices and comparison shopping.

Out of sheer curiosity I worked it up, before taxes you'd be making $104,400 a year at $400 a day at a standard 40 hour week.

And because I like trivia like this, if you did make that much, you'd be in the top 15.2% in the US, pay wise.

MM is fine if you want a shooter. Realize however that they are post war guns and have no historic connection to world war 2 or any war hence their resale value is going to be much different.

Actually it compares quite closely to the brand new kahr/Thompson M-1 carbines being produced. If you want a good fun shooting weapon that looks like something from WW2, go get it you are golden. However, for the same money you can buy an old beater that actually saw war. In 50 years they will both be old beaters, but one will have historic significance because of it's involvement in a war, and a monitary value to reflect that. The new M-1 carbine will not, and neither will the MM

So I've read the threads and I see the ads for the German K98's. Based on what I've read on the net, and not actually seeing it first hand, it looks like the K98's may be refinished with scrubbed numbers.

Now for my M48. I went back several years and checked the adds in gun mags to make sure I wasn't missing anything. If in fact my gun was scrubed and refinished I have a fraud law suite, and quite honestly, so does everyone else who bought one of these guns.

Regardless of if I overpaid or under paid, or got a good deal or even if I'm happy with the rifle, I'd like to know if I was scammed.

So here's my question. Does anyone have any proof? I've heard it's a well known scam, but I have yet to hear anyone with any evidence. Does anyone have any info other than hear say as to this scam? If so I'd like to see it.

Thanks in advance.

I love this thread.

I wish I had a thread like this as a son in law.

Nice of 'em to show closeups, too...

http://www.mauser.org/photogallery/pages/M48_03.htm

Well, I mean this not as an insult, but your only choice is to call me a liar or accept that what I say is the truth. I watched when MM first started bringing these out and was outright lying about their age - saying that they were produced in occupied Yugoslavia by the Nazi's. Yes, they did. Check in the mags around 1996-1998.

Ash

I can't prove/disprove that Mitchell's refinished your rifle, but on all the M48's I've seen from them the buttplate is polished "brite". On all the "normal" M48's I've seen it's blued. The wood is also pretty much always "Blonde" and if you get one where the guy they hired to do the work was lazy you can see where remnants of the old stock finish is near the butt plate and sometimes where the handguards meet the receiver on the top. (all depends on the guy running the belt sander I think.)

Just my .02

Regards,
Dave

The people that buy these are not collectors. If you are a collector, that's great, but don't assume people are being defrauded because they don't really care about the serial numbers. I know several people who have purchased them and are happy. They wanted something that looks and operates like a Mauser.

Even if all the allegations are true, those are satisfied customers. They didn't want to spend hours and hours learning about marks and comparative value and history and walking around at gun shows. They didn't want to spend hours cleaning off the Cosmoline. They wanted something that looked good and felt good right now. They got it.

So let's lower the temperature a little. Pointing out that these are not collector's items is appropriate, but some of the language is a little heated.

There are folks who are happy buying from Hunters Lodge, too.

Ash

I watched when MM first started bringing these out and was outright lying about their age - saying that they were produced in occupied Yugoslavia by the Nazi's. Yes, they did. Check in the mags around 1996-1998.

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Ash,

I seem to remember their fairly early ads for these Mausers. I do not remember it the same as you do though. Now that could be for a few reasons, and not that I or anyone is calling you a liar. It could be your memory is different than mine because of:

1) You being wrong, me being right 100%

2) Me being wrong, you being right 100%

3) Both being wrong on different parts or aspects of the ads, and also being right on some of them.

Doers that make anyone a liar on this particular subject. I think not. Nor does Iit mean I or anyone on these forums has to accept what you say as truth or otherwise call you a liar. The reality of a situation often supercedes the truth of it. For example if you whole heartidly believe what youa re saying, but are wrong, that does not mean you were lying, but just wrong. Same goes for me with my viewpoint, and for others with theirs.

Of course there are some folks on this thread who seem to want to see it only their way. I am not saying anyone is lying, but please allow me to point out someone who tried to imply that Mitchell Mausers said you should "only trust their ammunition" in your Mauser. yes someone above said that, look here to a quote from Alamo (hey Alamo nothing personal just using this post as a good example of how things can get twisted, and I am not saying you twisted anything) Just read along at how I could interpet what Alamo said:

You should trust only Mitchell's Premium Ammunition in a Mitchell's rifle

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Or was I just wrong when I said tha Alamo implied that Mitchell's Mausers said that or implied it in their ads. They do not say it, nor does it look to me as if they imply it, at least not in the ad to which Alamo provided a link. What they do say is this:

Brand new ammunition in 8MM Mauser caliber! You no longer need to rely on military surplus, because you can now buy full-power Mitchell 8MM Mauser ammunition in four different bullet styles. And that has never before been available!

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Oh wait a inute, maybe Alamo was being sarcastic when he wrote what he did, and did not mean to imply that Mitchell's Mauser had said you should only trust their ammo. Or maybe he was saying that MM ammo is the only ammo you should trust because he thinks it is the cat's meow.

The truth is I cannot be sure what he was saying without some further explanation. He says one thing, the ad says another. That sort of is the same thing that is happening in this thread. There are plenty of people saying one thing about their recollections of ads, or bad mouthing MMs, or appearing to possibly do so, with no hard evidence on their side, while MM has the ads for all to see in black & white.

I think lots of folks who have participated in or read this thread would like to see some hard proof of the claims being made against MMs. That is a far cry from calling anyone a liar.

All the best,
Glenn B

Some of the unissued grade rifles Mitchel's sells are indeed unissued. They were charging $400 for these back when unissued M48s were a dime a dozen and everyone else was selling them for around $169.

I've looked at several examples of mitchells M48s over the last 7 or 8 years. The recent frop showing up in stores have stockes that may have been refinished, but the metal for sure has been buffed. I've never seen a M48 with the barrel bands 'in the white' other than those sold by mitchells. It looked like they were trying to put a bit of 'spit and polish' on a $100 rifle so thay could sell it for $299.

but on all the M48's I've seen from them the buttplate is polished "brite". On all the "normal" M48's I've seen it's blued

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There might be variations that had blued buttplates, but every M48 and M48A has had a butt plate in the white.

Oh, by the way, if indeed Mitchell's mausers ads wereat first confusing, or possibly misleading (either purposefully or just because they were poorly written) isn't it wonderful that a company like Mitchell's Mausers cleared up any doubt about their rifles by clarifying what was supposedly in their earlier ads, and replacing it with what is in their ads now. Seems to me like a pretty honest company to have done such; I would think a dishonest company would have tried to keep perpertrating the fraud, if there was ineed any fraud at all.

Best regards,
GB

Quote:
I watched when MM first started bringing these out and was outright lying about their age - saying that they were produced in occupied Yugoslavia by the Nazi's. Yes, they did. Check in the mags around 1996-1998.

Ash,

I seem to remember their fairly early ads for these Mausers. I do not remember it the same as you do though. Now that could be for a few reasons, and not that I or anyone is calling you a liar. It could be your memory is different than mine because of:

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I remember the wording as being 'produced under Nazi occupation'

The first M48s did not roll off the assembly line until 1950, the first M48As went into production 2 years later...

50 yr old wood stocks can shrink with age. Metal can also develop a patina with age. Besides alot of those M48s were briefly issued then refinished/rearsenaled and look new.

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I have several rifles that are well over 100 years old and the stock to metal fit is something a modern gunsmith would envy. Properly curing wood blanks before cutting the stock greatly reduces warpage and shrinkage- an important step that modern manufacturers don't have the time or willingness to do.

Someone please scan/post the fraudulent ad...

Certainly someone has one of these old fraudulent advertisements somewhere. I would like to see one. As far back as I can remember (not that far), MM has always described these M48 rifles as manufactured from German tech in Serbia. These MM threads pop up about every other month and MM's detractors only can produce "he said/she said" evidence of their fraudulent ways. Doesn't anybody have a scanner they could use to put this to rest once and for all?