Electronic Safe lock issue? (LaGard)

What most consumers don't understand is that all electronic locks are disposable units that will fail. That is the price you pay for the other benefits offered by an electronic lock.

I see more S&G failures than I do Lagard, but both are fairly common. The fact that your locksmith says he's never seen one is a pretty good indication that your locksmith doesn't do a lot of safe work. The second indication is the amount of time he spent working on the lock. I've had a few gun safes cause me a lot of problems, but I can usually drill a lock and be into the safe in less than 10 minutes.

We try to drill as few holes as possible, but sometimes multiple holes are needed. They are very hard to repair on gun safes because the steel is so thin. A little sanding and some touch up paint may help.

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Posted by a1abdj on:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=323552&highlight=electronic+safe+locks

A sign that a problem is developing is when you have to enter the numbers more than once to get it to open. If that occurs, do not lock the safe! Replacing the lock is quick and relatively inexpensive. Drilling open a safe is expensive.

LaGard

I still own a Cannon safe and the LaGard keypad failed on mine. Cannon replaced it free of charge. One of the numbers failed to function. If it is the keypad Cannon can refer you to someone in your area and it wont cost you a thing.

A sign that a problem is developing is when you have to enter the numbers more than once to get it to open. If that occurs, do not lock the safe! Replacing the lock is quick and relatively inexpensive. Drilling open a safe is expensive.

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can't the digital dial be replaced while the door is still locked shut?
My digital dial (pad) will come up off pegs to enable replacing the battery and it also then exposes the wires. I assume you cut the wires and splice in a new keypad.

Am I wrong on this?

Fella's;

The better elecronic locks have a plug-in connection between the dial keypad and the wire lead back through the door to the actual lock itself. I'd strongly suggest letting a pro look it over & do the needed work rather than start cutting wires. If Cannon hires a locksmith to go to your job & he finds cut wires, I'd strongly suspect you're going to be paying for the entire job.

900F

Some keypads can be unplugged on the outside(S&G) and others are hardwired on the outside (LaGard).

Tampering with a safe will void any warranty that it may have, and increase the amount a safe tech charges to get in.

There are rarely "top of the line" electronic locks used on any gun safe, as the real top of the line electronic locks would cost more than the safe itself.

Electronics are hit and miss. I've seen electronic locks that are 15 years old and still working, and I've seen new electronic locks dead out of the box. Sometimes they give you some warning signs, and sometimes they just quit. This is the trade off for the convenience of speed and being able to set your own combination.

Cannon claims to have the best warranty in the business. I hope they take care of your problem. If they don't, you can find a qualified safe tech at one of the links below:

http://savta.org/members.php?id=6


http://www.clearstar.com/yellform.htm

My LaGard (attached to a Granite Safe) went wacky about a year ago and fired the "relockers". It took a locksmith/safecracker almost two hours to drill it out/replace it, and that was with the right tools, training, etc. Granite Security paid for the whole thing, even the overtime/after-hours charges for the locksmith.

Replaced the Lagard with an S&G/manual lock.

Maybe those warranties are a good idea after all.

a1, I just read you latest post and it made me go pull the digital keypad off to look at the wires. Seems there is not "wires" as I had in my head. Don't know why but I could have sworn there was a positive and negative wire running from the pad to the inside of the safe. The wires are a phone cord sized cable, I can understand how cutting it woudl be a bad bad idea.

I am going to make sure I have contact info for Granite and the serial number of the thing in my rolodex, just in case.

I wish mine had a dial on it but it was not an option at the time of purchase.

Maybe I can upgrade to a bigger safe with a dial someday.

The keypad (S&G) on my 1999 Liberty Washington 40 started failing in less than a year and got progressively worse as time went on to the point it would take 4 or 5 or more tries to get in and finally completely failed in 6 years. I called S&G and was told the keypads of that era had issues and had been redesigned and not to worry as it was a keypad problem, not a lock issue. They recommended ordering a new keypad which I did. The new redesigned keypad (S&G 6120-10 Comptronic Keypad) arrived in less than a week and I unplugged the old, plugged in the new and was back in business. There have been no problems in the last 3 years. The negatives were I was locked out of my safe for a week and had to purchase the new keypad for $110.

In retrospect I wish I had not spent the $400 to convert the safe from the original S&G Dial lock to an S&G Electronic Lock back in 1999 when I purchased the safe; for me a lesson learned the hard way for sure.

Guys,this thread has finally and totally convinced me to not own an electronic lock on my new safe i intend to purchase in the very near future.
The convience of a quick opening safe just is not worth the hassle when it finally fails.

Just remember that mechanical locks can fail also, but not nearly as often. Many of these failures can be attributed to lack of maintenance. Make sure you get a locksmith to service your safe every few years, and you will greatly reduce your risks of it happening.

A1abdj...What is a sign that the mechanical lock needs service.
On my older Amsec the lock will sort of make a funny knocking noise if i spin the dial sort of fast.
Not sure what type of lock it is but this is one of Amsec's imported safes so it's probably not a S&G.
Of course i wasn't aware it was a Chinese import until after it was in my home.

We should all chip in a buy A1 a case of beer.

Also, I notice that some of the mechanical locks also have a key hole for use of a key. OR, is the key just to change the combination?

Does a mechanical lock make it more pickable or easier to break into? Is that even an issue, I mean, I bet 99% of the time a break in is attempted through brute force, not picking or x-raying the lock . . . right?

I am down to trying decide on a electronic lock or a manual lock. I will be into the safe about 4 times per week, Wife about the same.

A1abdj...What is a sign that the mechanical lock needs service.

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Similar to service intervals on a car. If you're using the safe in a business and opening it daily, it should be serviced once a year. If you're using the safe in your home and opening it weekly, then you would probably be OK once every 5 years.

On my older Amsec the lock will sort of make a funny knocking noise if i spin the dial sort of fast.

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Spinning any lock fast is not good for the lock.

Not sure what type of lock it is but this is one of Amsec's imported safes so it's probably not a S&G.

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It could be. It could also be a S&G clone. It could also be a non-mechanical lock. Non-mechanical locks (also known as direct entry) don't have much to them, and only require periodic lubrication.

If you remove the back cover of the safe, see if you're looking at a box, or exposed wheels. If the wheels are exposed, a little light silicone/teflon spray should do the trick. If you're looking at a box, call a locksmith.

Also, I notice that some of the mechanical locks also have a key hole for use of a key. OR, is the key just to change the combination?

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If the key hole is in the dial, it is for locking the dial. These types of locks don't really add any security, but they can be used for dual control or day locking a safe.

The "key hole" used to change the combination is on the back cover of the lock.

Does a mechanical lock make it more pickable or easier to break into? Is that even an issue, I mean, I bet 99% of the time a break in is attempted through brute force, not picking or x-raying the lock . . . right?

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Anything one man can design, another man can bypass. There are professional manipulators out there, and I have seen one of these guys open a lock in under 5 minutes. These guys are very rare, and usually work on the right side of the law.

Safe users that are worried about spies (think government) do use x-ray resistant locks.

I wouldn't worry about it, because as you say, most gun safe burglary attempts are made using brute force. They do make locks that are manipulation resistant. They cost more.

I am down to trying decide on a electronic lock or a manual lock. I will be into the safe about 4 times per week, Wife about the same.

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The women really like the electronic locks. They are very easy to operate, and they can make up words using the keypad. The downside is you may be looking at the expense of drilling the safe and replacing the lock should the electronic lock eventually stops working.

I have one of those electronic locks and I'm in my safe sometimes 8 to 10 times a day (at least 4), It has a date code of 2005 and the only issue I had was having to replace the battery when it started beeping at me. It has worked every time. (knock on wood). But you fellows now have me worried.

Electronic safe locks? Did you ever notice the number of electronic repair shops, computer repair shops, etc.? There is a reason for that; that electronic stuff ain't dependable! In fact, I spent most of my working life supporting my family by fixing that cranky stuff so there are no electonic locks or powder scales in my life.

In 2 weeks if not taken care of, I will likely plasma cut the safe open, file a complaint with the BBB, and build a vault room.

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CB900F or myself would be glad to sell you a door for that room.

I would call Cannon and let them know that the locksmith they hired is unresponsive. Tell them that you're going to pay the first guy to do it and send them the bill.

The women really like the electronic locks. They are very easy to operate, and they can make up words using the keypad.

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I've seen electronic locks with dials. Its just as easy to spell words with them. With the way everyone text messages these days, when I want to remember a combo, I use a phone as a "key" to help me remember which numbers go with the words i remember.

I thought long and hard before getting an electronic lock over a manual dial, but for me the frequency/speed of getting in was more important.

Electronic can fail, and probably are less reliable than a mechanical lock. But I would HOPE that the manufacturers tried to make them as reliable as possible. My particular safe (Fort Knox) has a lifetime warranty, but of course I won't know how good that is until I need it.

Question: Why doesn't anyone offer a safe with Both? Electronic for fast entry, and a mechanical dial for backup in a failure situation. Yes, I know it would cost more, but I would be willing to pay extra for the peace of mind.

A friend of mine got a similar model to mine, if the keypad should fail, I'm assuming I could borrow his keypad to get inside if needed.

Finally, I made it a point to enter several combinations on my safe. That is one of the big advantages to an electronic lock- my combo, wife's combo, dad's combo... and easy to change if needed. Even if one or two keypads went bad, I'd still be able to get in using another combination that does not use that digit. Also keeps you from overuse of one digit or another.

Oh, one more thing- everyone I know who uses a manual dial will leave the safe open after going through the tedious proceedure of dialing in the combination. I much prefer being able to keep mine locked except when I am getting something in or out.