entropy
Member
I didn't mean to imply we live in fear; but prudent measures do reduce the probability of someone acting on their desire created by opportunity.
Just had a scary experience!!! Now getting CCW
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GuyWithQuestions
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I think I'd rely on my firearm more, but I think it would be reasonable to roll it up
Although I think I'd rely on my firearm, pepper spray, and dart-firing air taser more as self-defense options, because it's easier to guarantee that they'll be with me when I need them rather than thinking that the window will always happen to be up and that no one will break it, I think it still would be reasonable and prudent to have my car windows up in certain situations. It's just like when I go into the grocery store and I lock my car door. I realize that if someone really wants to get in the car lock wouldn't matter and from a moral and legal perspective, the car thief would be the one at fault, not me. However, people still find it reasonable and prudent to lock their car doors when they go into Wal-Mart, etc, because although criminals can steal from anywhere, they usually try to get an easier victim.
Many people lock their doors to their home when they go on vacations, even though they know you can't engage in victim blaming they still have some intuitive knowing that they should lock their doors while leaving for a vacation. Although I like to have my window down on hot summer days, I have it rolled up if I drive through a bad part of certain towns or a place I don't know as much about and you get that "feeling". If you see bars on every window of every building, with people loitering around every where smoking what looks to be pot, yes it's true it'd be their fault if they broke in, but I would rather lessen the chances by making it less easy (even though you can't get rid of all probability). If I was a car jacker, I realize that I could break a window, but if I had the choice between a window that was up or down, I'd go for the one down because I would prefer not to get glass all over me if I had the choice (among other reasons why I'd prefer to attack a car with a window down). I've also heard that it costs money to hire an attorney in self-defense cases, so even if it's their moral fault I don't want to have to deal with all the trouble if I can lessen the chances. Even if you have insurance against theft, you still lock your home door because you don't want to have to worry about the trouble or proving anything or any other factors that come into play.
If not worrying about your window being down in certain circumstances doesn't matter, why do a lot of people intuitively get a "feeling" to roll up their windows when they all of a sudden see bars on every single window and street thugs walking around? In these situations, do you get an intuitive feeling to all of a sudden roll down all your windows and use the power locks to unlock all doors? Similarly, when there's an extreme blizzard outside, many drivers intuitively know to slow down below the speed limit while there's a few who don't. 30% of all fatal accidents are speed related, most of them have nothing to do with going over the speed limit but driving too fast for the conditions.
If you're in Yellowstone National Park, they recommend not storing your food in a way that'll attract grizzly bears. Even though it'd be the bear's fault and you'd be the victim and it's your food so you can do whatever you want with it, they still don't recommend it. So I think I'd rely on my firearm and other personal defense devices more because I know that they'll probably be more likely to be around when the situation arises, but I still would roll up my car windows in certain situations.
Although I think I'd rely on my firearm, pepper spray, and dart-firing air taser more as self-defense options, because it's easier to guarantee that they'll be with me when I need them rather than thinking that the window will always happen to be up and that no one will break it, I think it still would be reasonable and prudent to have my car windows up in certain situations. It's just like when I go into the grocery store and I lock my car door. I realize that if someone really wants to get in the car lock wouldn't matter and from a moral and legal perspective, the car thief would be the one at fault, not me. However, people still find it reasonable and prudent to lock their car doors when they go into Wal-Mart, etc, because although criminals can steal from anywhere, they usually try to get an easier victim.
Many people lock their doors to their home when they go on vacations, even though they know you can't engage in victim blaming they still have some intuitive knowing that they should lock their doors while leaving for a vacation. Although I like to have my window down on hot summer days, I have it rolled up if I drive through a bad part of certain towns or a place I don't know as much about and you get that "feeling". If you see bars on every window of every building, with people loitering around every where smoking what looks to be pot, yes it's true it'd be their fault if they broke in, but I would rather lessen the chances by making it less easy (even though you can't get rid of all probability). If I was a car jacker, I realize that I could break a window, but if I had the choice between a window that was up or down, I'd go for the one down because I would prefer not to get glass all over me if I had the choice (among other reasons why I'd prefer to attack a car with a window down). I've also heard that it costs money to hire an attorney in self-defense cases, so even if it's their moral fault I don't want to have to deal with all the trouble if I can lessen the chances. Even if you have insurance against theft, you still lock your home door because you don't want to have to worry about the trouble or proving anything or any other factors that come into play.
If not worrying about your window being down in certain circumstances doesn't matter, why do a lot of people intuitively get a "feeling" to roll up their windows when they all of a sudden see bars on every single window and street thugs walking around? In these situations, do you get an intuitive feeling to all of a sudden roll down all your windows and use the power locks to unlock all doors? Similarly, when there's an extreme blizzard outside, many drivers intuitively know to slow down below the speed limit while there's a few who don't. 30% of all fatal accidents are speed related, most of them have nothing to do with going over the speed limit but driving too fast for the conditions.
If you're in Yellowstone National Park, they recommend not storing your food in a way that'll attract grizzly bears. Even though it'd be the bear's fault and you'd be the victim and it's your food so you can do whatever you want with it, they still don't recommend it. So I think I'd rely on my firearm and other personal defense devices more because I know that they'll probably be more likely to be around when the situation arises, but I still would roll up my car windows in certain situations.
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NGIB
Member
I smoke so I generally have a window at least partially down. When I'm at a stop sign or light, I generally have it just cracked an inch or so. I pass a number of intersections in my daily commute where "people" tend to congregate and I'm always comforted by the Beretta .40 sitting in the console. Situational awareness is important and making the habit of rolling up the window as I'm stopping is just second nature to me...
NASCAR_MAN
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I like to roll with the window down...and stick my head out the window. I guess I'm like a dog in that way, it just feels good. No one will stop me from doing that - ever. It's one of life's simple pleasures. As a result, if anyone views this as an opportunity to barge into my car without my permission, they'll be sorry...period.
Yeah...I guess I could roll up the windows an avoid the mess, but I can't live my life that defensively, and still have a life worth living. At least that's how I see it.
NASCAR
Yeah...I guess I could roll up the windows an avoid the mess, but I can't live my life that defensively, and still have a life worth living. At least that's how I see it.
NASCAR
To the original poster:
First of all, this guy was a definite threat to you- he tried to enter your vehicle w/o your permission.
Second, learn to start thinking defensivley when driving. Stuff like leaving room between you and the vehicle in front of you to be able to pull out of the lane in a hurry, etc.
Remember, you are driving a heavy object that can go fast. You can run people over or drag them along if they try to enter your vehicle or harm you.
First of all, this guy was a definite threat to you- he tried to enter your vehicle w/o your permission.
Second, learn to start thinking defensivley when driving. Stuff like leaving room between you and the vehicle in front of you to be able to pull out of the lane in a hurry, etc.
Remember, you are driving a heavy object that can go fast. You can run people over or drag them along if they try to enter your vehicle or harm you.
One thing that annoys me is people that say that you'll be safer if you live your life in alert mode (condition yellow). It may help your awareness and your ability to sense and react to danger but it'll also drive you insane (no exajuration) and will promote high blood pressure, increase your chances for a heart attack, increase stress, and decrease your satisfaction with your quality of life due to having to take those extra few precautionary steps. I'd recommend having your pistol ready in case you need it but only living life in condition yellow in areas you're not comfortable in, areas you're not familiar with, and obvious and stereotypically suspicious areas such as less than reputable areas after dark. Trying to be completely and totally safe is good in theory, but you've still got to live.
jaenak said:
Are you saying that from personal experience or personal opinion? You seem to be equating readiness and awareness with paranoia and obsession. If the extra mental effort it takes you to be aware of your surroundings as you walk out of Wally World at night, or know who is around you in the parking lot is going to drive you "insane" (which is an exaggeration), then you really need to rethink things - -including the decision to carry a weapon.
If you can predict for me what areas are "reputable", then I'll stop paying attention. Ever read the crime reports for your neighbordhood? Or checked the sex offender registry to see how many live within a couple of miles of your house?
Yes, individuals can take anything to an extreme and let concern and worry overtake their lives. Nothing you can do - short of staying locked in your house - can keep you "completely and totally safe". I think you could find a greater number of people, though, who are actually more relaxed and comfortable because they do live in Condition Yellow. It gives you a degree of control that you don't have wandering around in a haze. It's a matter of applying the proper techniques, mindset and balance.
Jim
XDKingslayer
member
Then you would probably be dead, victim of a car-jacking because that's exactly what it was.
The guy is lucky he had a chance to drive away.
In Florida, your car is treated like your home. Just like it's illegal for someone to enter your home in that manner and it makes deadly force justified, it applies to the car.
ducktape944
Member
I believe in Fl you CAN carry in you car with out a permit because of the castle law and your car is considered private property and an extension of your home under that law
IllHunter
Member
Jaenak, you might be thinking of condition orange, as that focused and searching state may cause stress. I live in yellow every day all day and would be stressed to de-escalate anywhere but home. And home sometimes needs yellow since I don't control the approaches.
jackdanson
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If a shambling hobo comes up and drunkenly asks you for money, don't laugh at him, I found that out the hard way.
Anyway I don't keep my windows up unless I am in a bad neighborhood, which now that I think about it, is most of the time. I wouldn't be paranoid though. What would be next, bullet resistant windows? Steel plating in the door?
Anyway I don't keep my windows up unless I am in a bad neighborhood, which now that I think about it, is most of the time. I wouldn't be paranoid though. What would be next, bullet resistant windows? Steel plating in the door?
jenrob
Member
I drive into downtown Portland alot. I roll with the windows down but stay alart of my surrounding. Which also keeps me from getting into wrecks knowing what is going on around me.
I'm not paronoid I just have always watch my surroundings. I don't stress it's not that hard. I have worked in places where if you didn't watch what was going on a Jet engine might have you for lunch or a prop might give you a little closer hair cut than you wanted.
Now if I see the hobo's and they look to be coming my way I just hit the window button and roll it up 3/4 or more and basically tell them nope.
I see it as with the window up this high it's harder for them to get to the locks which are alway locked (even with the windows down) or the door handle.
Knowing my surroundings I useally will have an out, and in worst case it will give me a chance to draw while leaning away from the window.
Now I see it if he just reaches in to my car and I pull a gun more than likely being a hobo he will try to call the police and file against you. Crappy deal but this is how our ttime have become.
Now you are going to have some talking to do and will most likel;y come out fine but still. Every little thing you can do for you safety before you have to present a firearm will work to your advantage.
Some say I don't need to do that I have a gun. Bad answer to a jury of 12 anti's
But he broke my window I tried to get out of the situation wound up hitting the car in front of me I was trapped. Might go over a little better (probably not if ya got unlucky enough to get 12 anti's for your jury)
I'm not paronoid I just have always watch my surroundings. I don't stress it's not that hard. I have worked in places where if you didn't watch what was going on a Jet engine might have you for lunch or a prop might give you a little closer hair cut than you wanted.
Now if I see the hobo's and they look to be coming my way I just hit the window button and roll it up 3/4 or more and basically tell them nope.
I see it as with the window up this high it's harder for them to get to the locks which are alway locked (even with the windows down) or the door handle.
Knowing my surroundings I useally will have an out, and in worst case it will give me a chance to draw while leaning away from the window.
Now I see it if he just reaches in to my car and I pull a gun more than likely being a hobo he will try to call the police and file against you. Crappy deal but this is how our ttime have become.
Now you are going to have some talking to do and will most likel;y come out fine but still. Every little thing you can do for you safety before you have to present a firearm will work to your advantage.
Some say I don't need to do that I have a gun. Bad answer to a jury of 12 anti's
But he broke my window I tried to get out of the situation wound up hitting the car in front of me I was trapped. Might go over a little better (probably not if ya got unlucky enough to get 12 anti's for your jury)
Driving away was the best solution. You did not need a gun for a good outcome, this time. If you had a gun at the time would you have used it?
The more you read about self defense situations, the more you will come to realize that even when justified, getting tangled up in the legal system by defending yourself with a gun is costly.
Did you call the cops afterwards and report this guy?
The more you read about self defense situations, the more you will come to realize that even when justified, getting tangled up in the legal system by defending yourself with a gun is costly.
Did you call the cops afterwards and report this guy?
Magnum164
Member
ok, as of today I am no longer riding around town at night in my convertible (or drop top if you prefer) with my top down (the top of the car, not mine). I had no idea if someone attacked me it would be my fault if I had to stop the attack with deadly force
Kacerdias
Member
I read the original post and had a flashback to my own experience that reads almost word for word. It was my first night in Orlando and some goon tried to climb into my car too. The best defense is in layers - the first being the obvious - lock your doors and roll up the windows. The gun should be the last ditch effort. You live and you learn.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=286764
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=286764
macadore
Member
I was once accosted with the windows up. Pointing Mr. Colt and dropping the safety afforded me substantial protection. I have a convertible that I drive with the top down when the weather permits. That does wonders for one’s situational awareness. Even with the top up, a knife could easily cut through the top. Mr. Glock has replaced Mr. Colt because he carries more rounds I don’t have to drop the safety. I refuse to live in fear and I refuse to let dysfunctional people interfere with my “joie de la vie”.
Magnum164
Member
In all honesty, I have found I am at an advantage when I am in my convertible with the top down. Simply from the fact that most BGs know you are not going to be riding around without something in the car with you. I have been approached with the top up and windows down, more than with just the top down.
Most the time with the top down all it takes is a stern look and holding my finger or hand up to say stop. You would be suprised at how many people understand what I mean. No one has ever aproached me further.
Most the time with the top down all it takes is a stern look and holding my finger or hand up to say stop. You would be suprised at how many people understand what I mean. No one has ever aproached me further.
UglyAllDay
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I think the key factor here is awareness. You were approached and made aware of this persons requests/demands, you were aware that you were not going to give him a ride and at some point I am sure you became aware that this individual was not taking "no" for an answer. A rolled up window is not the "end all" to every situation but it may have ended this one. Do not however, place the blame on yourself (the victim is not at fault). I think all things considered you made the right choice and being aware of the possible outcomes in the future maybe leaving enough space between you and the car in front may be a useful lesson. Being stern goes a loooonnnnng way.
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