Gunshows and Hijackings and Curches - why not Schools?

Why is it different in any other area of society?

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We all know it's not. But that's not the point. If safety were truly the point then there'd be no argument against us.
It might be hoplophobia, or it might be good old-fashioned tyranny, but you can't really say that anyone wants to ban guns for safety reasons. If that were the only argument, if the banners really didn't have anything else in mind, then they'd be pretty easily defeated.

I think the overwhelming reason why they want to ban guns is "for the common good". It annoys me that this isn't directly touted as the reason, and it annoys me even more that we generally don't respond to this.
For we have a law on the books which very clearly states that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. By ignoring that law, they undermine the rule of law.
And without the rule of law, one can not make a claim that there is any common good.

Well, the police are the only ones in schools, that I know of, who are professional enough to be trusted with guns there.

You don't see ANYONE attempt a mass shooting at a gunshow. Why? Well, even if someone were to attempt, it wouldn't be likely to get to the "mass" part.

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Not to steer too far off topic
But at least here there are police officers at the door making sure all guns brought into the show, by law abiding citizens, are disabled and that you are not carrying any loaded magazines
The dealers are required to temporarily disable all the guns on their tables and also are not allowed to be armed with a functional firearm

While not as helpless as you would be at school
Gunshows around here severely inhibit your ability to react to a real threat from a suicide attack
Many would die or be shot before any real resistance could be attempted

Gunshows around here severely inhibit your ability to react to a real threat from a suicide attack
Many would die or be shot before any real resistance could be attempted

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It depends on the gun show. At the ones around here (that I go to), you're required to have a zip-tie put through the action of your weapon. If I carry a mag and a pair of fingernail cutters then I've only lost a few seconds. If he's so close that a few seconds is too long, a knife or brute strength may be your only options anyway (not being macho; it's either attack him or resign yourself to the shooter's will).

You don't see ANYONE attempt a mass shooting at a gunshow. Why? Well, even if someone were to attempt, it wouldn't be likely to get to the "mass" part.

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Given that most gun shows require your guns to be in bondage, as noted above, a dedicated shooter at a gun show could do plenty of damage. However, there are some of interesting points here to consider.

First, while there have not been any mass shootings at gun shows, there haven't been any mass shootings at many types of public events and there have been several where the violence has been stopped fairly quickly before much of the "mass" part came into play and shooters have been stopped in various ways (but mostly by people armed with guns, no doubt). So, gun shows are not particularly safer for quick response.

Second, most of the shooters at these things are not very good at what they do. They are just well armed yahoos who rely on a target rich environment in order to rack up a score. An accomplished shooter at a gun show could do a lot of damage just as an accomplished shooter could anywhere else. So this whole gunshow angle is a bit misleading.

Third, while there have not been any mass shootings at gun shows, there are a LOT of NDs at gun shows. We have 1-2 per year in the DFW area alone of which I am aware. Personally, I have attended three shows where there had been an ND just before or after I was present and been at one show where there was an ND. So while it might sound like a gun show would be a good place for a mass shooting to be stopped, there is also a definite level of incompetence there as well.

Fourth, if there was an attempted mass shooting at a gun show and a lot of the attendees removed their zip ties and loaded up with the spare mags they were not supposed to have in the gun show in the first place, I would be willing to bet that there would be a high probability of friendly fire incidents. I would base this one the NDs that occur at guns shows as well as a lot of the moronic gun handling I see at them. Getting swept with guns at a gun show happens far too frequently, and I am not talking about guns blindly carried around, but those people are aiming in their assessment of how the guns will sight for them.

if there was an attempted mass shooting at a gun show and a lot of the attendees removed their zip ties and loaded up with the spare mags they were not supposed to have in the gun show in the first place

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You have to check your ammo at the gate? Weird.

If I carry a mag and a pair of fingernail cutters then I've only lost a few seconds.

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I have been known to do this also
But I said that it is the law abiding customers that have allowed themselves to be disarmed or at least hobbled

To enter the show you have to pass a badged police officer and tell him that you have no weapons or loaded mags or present the ones you have to be tied back

I think the only thing so far that has prevented an incident at a show is the misperception that we are all armed

You have to check your ammo at the gate?

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Yes, even licensed CCW holders

Well, the police are the only ones in schools, that I know of, who are professional enough to be trusted with guns there.

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Especially Glock fo-tays. (Excellent stealth quote! )

I'm wondering how long it will take before someone shoots up a post office (gun free and disarmed in a convenient location near you!) and gives a new definition to the words "going postal."

We know that you usually cannot carry loaded weapons at gun shows because we are gun enthusiasts and go to a lot of shows. But the average person and the average mass murderer don't know that. They probably assume that they will get quickly shot by hundreds of armed people at a gun show if they try anything, even if they are wrong.

I don't think the lack of mass-killings/shootings at gun shows has anything to do with the fact that they're gun shows, per se.

They don't happen because they're not regularly scheduled events, for the most part. I doubt there's but a handful of places throughout the country where the gun show is "regular".

Churches hold church, for the most part, every Sunday and one other time during the week (Wednesday or Friday, usually, depending on the type of service/activity). Some have

Schools are in session every day during a certain part of the year.

Malls are open all year long, every day (usually).

It's simply a matter of availability and "mental real-estate purchase".

Though if it came down to shooting up a Shriner's monthly meeting or a gun show, I do think the gun show would be avoided (they at least usually have security of some sort).

Don't kid yourself with disillusions of self-importance. There is nothing in the mind of any known sociopathic/psychopathic killer stereotype which would lead such a killer to pick a gun show. (Until the sociopolitical nuts on the Left start taking up arms in violence, that is. )

Think about it: churches have been shot up by "Christian haters"/Muslims, and high schools, malls, and colleges/universities have been shot up by angsty, marginalized, sexually frustrated loners with histories of at least -some- emotional/psychological issues (whether noted by their peers or 'professionals'). Their motivations speak to why the crimes have been perpetrated.

These fools go into the event not only knowing they're going to die, but planning their death. If there was some sort of "snap" that occured in their brain which contributed to a similar response against gun shows or shops, the people who frequent them, or what have you, it's unlikely the natural deterrent of firearms would make much of a difference.

If we see a "gun show shooting" on the news, I'd say there's a high likelihood that it's perpetrated from a distance with a rifle, into a crowd of people leaving the show. That speaks of both planning and at least enough mental stability (albeit, complete with derangement) to function. That'd have to be a really big grudge.

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These fools go into the event not only knowing they're going to die, but planning their death. If there was some sort of "snap" that occured in their brain which contributed to a similar response against gun shows or shops, the people who frequent them, or what have you, it's unlikely the natural deterrent of firearms would make much of a difference.
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That seems to be the mindset of the mass killers. They do not care about their lives or others. That would indicate that they have no fear of gun shows.
I would also think that in general they have no reason to hate gun shows, but do hate classmates, teachers, Christians, and others where they commit their murders.
They often commit suicide so they do not fear for their lives in general. At least that is my impression.

Regards,
Jerry

oops double post

Sorry Defensory, but Jesus isn't here right now and he doesn't attend gun shows. Things have changed since his day and you can't sell the shirt off your back and get enough money for a firearm.

I don't recall any quotes from Jesus on sword fights at sword shows either.

I'm wondering how long it will take before someone shoots up a post office

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Old news used to happen with the regularity of school shootings
It's where the term "going postal" comes from

They don't happen because they're not regularly scheduled events, for the most part. I doubt there's but a handful of places throughout the country where the gun show is "regular".

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Not only are they "regular" they are well advertised

There are very few spur of the moment shows
The purpose of shows is to generate revenue that requires customers, which requires notification of the masses

Mass murderers don't target gunshows because of the well known talismanic effect of guns at warding off evil.

Right on Sgt Rock

Your post is right on, Sgt Rock.

Madmen will not be targeting planes and churches as much. Thanks to CCW, some sensibility has been established.

I am all for some defensibility at Universities. I don't necessarily think a poorly paid security guard is the best option. I would feel better about armed citizenry, and armed staff.

I wonder if the NRA could not help by focusing some kind of outreach toward the staff and administration at universities?