A Ratty Old Mosin--Good Object Lesson

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cosmoline

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
23,646
Location
Los Anchorage
I picked up a war torn 1891 Tikka a few weeks back for $180 off gunbroker. The stock is dark and worn, but intact. The bore is a rarity among Finns--a counterbore. I wasn't expecting much accuracy wise but figured it would at least provide an excellent parts resource for my main M91 Tikka. Visual inspection of the bore confirmed it was very well worn for a Finn, and a far cry from my other Tikka's mirror sharp bore. Any shooting would involve extensive cleanup.

I had a chance to swing by the range yesterday and tried it out. I got a rough zero at 25 yards, which indicated I would need to hold to the left of target just a bit. I then moved out to 100 for the real test. First batch at that range was Wolf 200 grain BT. This is often a very good shooting round with Mosins, esp. M91's. But while I was aiming at the lower target's left side I was hitting over a FOOT high with a scattered group, as indicated by the red marks.

If I'd stopped then I would have figured this was a parts gun and probably packed it up in the lock box. But I also had some 148 grain Wolf FMJ. Out of curiosity I popped some of these in and aimed to the lower left of the top target. At 100 yards with those super small M91 sights, plus a very hot barrel in 10 f. air I was getting a ton of heat mirage off the barrel. The target bent and twisted in the mirage, making it very hard to get a bead. But even then you can see the results--three in the middle with one just off! I've indicated the point of aim and impact with blue.

So my beat up old parts gun shoots better than my main rifle, at least with light ball. It's a good example of why you should check every Mosin out with a variety of loads. You can actually have the same rifle through horrible, super high groups with one load of 54R and be a near MOA tack driver with a notch lighter load. Further shooting revealed it also shot extremely well with Winchester 180 softpoints, making it a natural choice for hunting.

tar1.gif
 
most of my m91's & 91/30's prefer lightball, my 44's like heavy ball. i always try out both of them with a new rifle. my best shooting m91 is also a counterbored finn, but it still has the original 1914 dated russian barrel
 
Good old Russian engineering.
If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
If it's broke but still working, replicate it.
 
In this case it was the Finns at Tikkakoski. It seems that while the older M91's were geared for heavy ball, the late model 91's were geared for the lighter ball that was more common by that point. At least that's my theory. At any rate it's a good example of the kind of variation you can get with one Mosin shooting different weight ball.
 
Yep, just because its old doesn't mean the engineering behind it is crap. They did good work with what they had. Plus after a few projects i've been on... i'd never underestimate anything the Russians put forth. You come up with some suprisingly good things when the political party has a gun to you, your family and everything....
-bix
 
Just ordered a 91 and a 44 today from Classic Arms in N.C.:) Can not wait to open the box and send some large grapefruits to 'paradise'.:D

Have no idea what the ammo is (recently bought M-1 carbine and Ruger Mini-: only have a .22 background).
Ordered Bulgarian or Romanian ammo Sat from a different place.

Does heavy/light mean the bullet weight, or the coating?

How about the big picture here-is the US govt. (or are other entities) buying up much of this for the Iraqi police etc, creating a shortage of 7.62 x 54R very soon, thereby raising the price?

The Russkies' engineering? According to Lt. Viktor Belenko (wrote "Mig Pilot"), who stole the Mig-25 Foxbat in '76...made it to Hakodate, Japan almost on fumes, the Russian had steel in the wings, but heat-resistant titanium on the wing/tail/ engine inlet (etc) leading edges only! The Russkies could barely produce any titanium. Our guys never dreamed of that. And rivets sticking out on the inside-but who cares? No airflow in there. Their larger weapons were reportedly at times crude but effective.
 
Last edited:
7.62 x 54R I don't think is in current usage by anyone in the Middle East. (at least that's my impression . ..there might be some user's of "heavy ball" for old machines guns)

I'd try to get "light ball" if you can. It'll be closer to POA on your Mosin. With "heavy ball" mine all shoot way low.

FWIW.
 
7.62 x 54R I don't think is in current usage by anyone in the Middle East. (at least that's my impression . ..there might be some user's of "heavy ball" for old machines guns)

PKM is x54.
 
Mike56, I had completely forgotten about that load. I'll have to work up some loads for the Mosin with it. For plinking that would save considerable powder costs. Now I just need to find a nice cast bullet to go with it...
 
Sounds like good news to me. I have a Fin rearsenalled Tula 91/30 thats counterbored, though the rest of the barrel is in fairly decent condition. The only time I've shot it since I got it was with Wolf 200 gr and it shot high and scattered the shots. I thought about trying to drill the counterbore a little deeper with the thought that their might be a bur at the end of the rifling, but I'll hold off on this for now.
I'll have to take a look around for some of the lighter Wolf ammo and give it a try next.
 
I have not tried cast bullets yet i have been using 150gr .308 Sierra bullets next time out i am going to try some pulled .308 GI bullets. This load lowers your POI makes your iron sights fun to use and is accurate not mention cheap to load.


I'll have to give that one a try too. I usually use a similar load for cast bullets- either 18-20 gr of 2400 or 12-13gr of unique, haven't tried it with a mosin yet as I don't have a correctly dimensioned mould yet. I'll could give it a try with some .311 bullets that I bought for my enfields.
 
I have a Fin rearsenalled Tula 91/30 thats counterbored, though the rest of the barrel is in fairly decent condition. The only time I've shot it since I got it was with Wolf 200 gr and it shot high and scattered the shots.

That is interesting. I suspect Tikka's gunsmiths may have been gearing them to lighter ball on purpose. The wolf light ball is available all over. And Albanian and a number of other surplus loads are also light ball. Let me know how your results turn out.
 
I suspect Tikka's gunsmiths may have been gearing them to lighter ball on purpose

I was really suprised when mine shot high. It has a Finish front sight which I figured that they would have regulated properly.
 
It must be mentioned that most Mosins are sighted in at 200m. So if you can try it at that range first...
-bix
 
If you look where the blue is, that's right about where the POA/POI should be at 100 meters when the tangent is on 150m. At 150m it should come down to meet on that setting.
 
I got a chance to try different ammo in my Fin rearsenalled 91/30 today. I shot 180gr soft point Wolf and 150gn FMJ wolf.

Both shot very similarly to your 200 gr Wolf ammo in dispersion- the groups were 3-5" horizontally and 2" on the vertical. The 180 gr ammo shot quite a bit better than the 150 gr ammo, but grouped about 2" higher. The lower grouping 150gn ammo was about 4" above the bull on a 25 yrd slowfire pistol target using a 6-0clock hold at 100 yards.

I shot both types of ammo at 25 yards first to make sure that they were going to hit paper at 100 and both types of ammo hit exactly on the point of aim at 25 yards.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top