Off-duty cop kills man in bar fight

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Not in California. It always the fault of something else. There is no personal responsibility for anything in that state.
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Yup. The Nanny state mentality is never quite so profoundly expressed as the product safety labels on everything (including hotel doors) that might contain chemicals "known by the state to cause cancer." The Hotel del Coronado has them in a very nice brass, but they still stick out like a zit on a supermodel.

I wonder when California is going to put a sign on exterior doors stating that the sun is known to cause cancer.
 
I shoot better after a few brews. I've been involved in ultra-violent situations while imbibing. I won and survived the civil aftermath.

Don't believe everything you're told or everything you read folks.

Live your life as you want and to hell with the bad guys.

Biker
 
BTW, in California if you have a CCW you are allowed to carry in a resturant that serves alcohol, but not a bar. Not sure about drinking, but I suspect it sure wouldn't look good. By most reports this was a resturant. And I wonder about the motivation by the people intervied on camera....
 
right from the vid clip from a witness perhaps you did not heat the word drunken Mad Chemist. I beleive they may cary in bars so long as they are not drinking, but please correct me if I am wrong here.
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and i believe that said witness was identified in the video as one of the dead guys friends... my suspicion is that this supposed witness was either part of the attack or at the very least urging it on...

now if the bartender was the one claiming the guy was drunk, ok thats one thing... but to me the dead guys friends arent reliable witnessess
 
The story just gets more murky.

http://www.pe.com/localnews/temecula/stories/PE_News_Local_S_shooting11.3bccfa4.html

Accounts of fatal shooting in Old Town Temecula differ



08:29 AM PDT on Tuesday, March 11, 2008

By SARAH BURGE
The Press-Enterprise

TEMECULA - Sheriff's officials on Monday identified the two men shot Saturday night in Temecula by an off-duty Costa Mesa police officer, but declined to release the name of the officer who fired the shots.

Shaun Vilan, 30, of Temecula, died Saturday at a local hospital. Taylor Willis, 22, also of Temecula, was hospitalized with gunshot wounds but survived.

Sheriff's spokesman Jerry Franchville said Riverside County will leave the decision about releasing the officer's name to the Costa Mesa Police Department, which is conducting its own internal investigation into the shooting. Costa Mesa police, in turn, referred all questions about the shooting to the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.

Friends and family of Vilan, as well as the owner of the restaurant where the incident began, are speaking out.

Stories Conflict

But their accounts of what happened could not be more different.

The restaurant owner says the officer was not drinking and was merely defending himself from a group of drunken men. Vilan's family and friends say the officer was drunk and confrontational.

Investigators on Monday were still interviewing witnesses and sheriff's officials would not say whether any of those involved might have been intoxicated.

Riverside County sheriff's spokesman Deputy Craig Roberts said during the weekend that an off-duty Costa Mesa police officer opened fire on a group of men who were beating him outside the Bank of Mexican Food restaurant at the corner of Old Town Front and Main streets about 7:20 p.m. The officer, who was treated for injuries that were not life-threatening, identified himself as a police officer at some point before he opened fire, Roberts said. Roberts said he did not know what provoked the fight.

Craig Puma, owner of the Bank of Mexican Food, said Sunday that the officer had not been drinking alcohol at his establishment. He said Vilan and his friends went after the officer, presumably because they were angry about an encounter with him earlier in the evening. Puma said the officer had slapped the behind of a woman with Vilan's group, thinking she was his girlfriend. It was an innocent mistake, Puma said, and the officer apologized.

Vilan's friends agreed that they first encountered the officer in the open-air bar about an hour before the shooting. Nicole Kitley, 28, a friend of Vilan's, said the officer hit her on the behind.

"He slapped me really hard," she said, and when she turned around, "He said, 'Oh, I thought you were my sister.' "

"I could tell he was drunk," she said, and he did not apologize. "He was being very confrontational," she said, and Vilan spoke up in her defense.

Dara Lewenthal, 27, Vilan's girlfriend, said she was upset to see the restaurant owner on the television news saying that she and Vilan had been drinking excessively and had been kicked out of several bars.

"He had his 7-year-old son with him," said Kevin Kitley, 29, a friend of Vilan's.

"It's not like they were bar hopping," added Vilan's mother, Karen Crowley.

Vilan had come out to see the Rod Run on Saturday afternoon with several friends -- all classic car enthusiasts -- and his son, Dillan, Lewenthal said. Although they had had a few drinks, they were not intoxicated, she said. Lewenthal said the group was only at the Bank of Mexican Food for about an hour and she stayed outside with Dillan.

Vilan's friends and family said the officer and a couple of his friends waited for Vilan outside. The officer confronted Vilan and four others as they were leaving, they said. There was an argument, but Vilan's friends and family say no one struck the officer.

They said the man did not announce that he was a police officer before he fired. He identified himself, they said, when the Temecula police arrived.

Mike Brooks, Vilan's brother, said he saw the officer shoot Vilan in the chest. Everyone scattered, Brooks said, but the officer kept shooting. Vilan tried to run away, too, but collapsed on the pavement, Brooks said.

"He shot two people and he had alcohol in his system and they just sent him home," Kevin Kitley said.

Gathered with Vilan's friends and siblings around her kitchen table Monday morning, Vilan's mother, Crowley, said she is worried that investigators will be too quick to side with the officer. She fears they will not give her son the benefit of the doubt because he served six years in prison for an assault.

Crowley said she felt that investigators treated her disrespectfully at the hospital, too.They were at the hospital for four hours, she said, before police finally told her her son was dead.

Second Man Wounded

Crowley said the other man who was shot, Willis, was still hospitalized Monday, with two gunshot wounds and broken bones.

Crowley said Vilan graduated in 1995 from Temecula Valley High School, where he had been a good student. He earned a bachelor's degree while in prison and he was working on a master's. He had been out of prison for more than two years and was employed as a day trader. He owned a house in Temecula, Crowley said, and drove a BMW.

Asked what Vilan's interests were, Lewenthal said, with a grin, "Working out and snakes."

Kevin Kitley said Vilan bred rare snakes. He kept about 30 snakes in his Temecula home, he said.

They said Vilan woke up at 4:45 a.m. everyday to check the stock market and was in bed by 9 p.m. He worked out regularly after work, they said.

"It's hard to summarize somebody's life," Kitley said, tearing up as he talked about being friends with Vilan as a child.

"Shaun was a very loved person. He had a lot of friends," Lewenthal said.

At 6:30 p.m. today, she said, they plan to fill the Old Town street where Vilan was shot to hold a vigil in his memory.

Reach Sarah Burge at 951-375-3736 or [email protected]
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Sounds like a group of men thought they were going to stomp a lone dude and got a lot more than they could handle
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I'm really wary of this. It always seems like people who advocate carrying in bars are the ones who have never been in a bar fight.

The issue at hand here, beyond the alcohol and impaired judgements, is a bar fight is completely different than a street fight or home invasion. Stay with me here, if a guy in a ski mask tackles you on your front lawn at 3 am, you have a right to do whatever you have to do to neutralize him (including lethal force). If a guy tackles you in a bar, and you shoot him- that is murder. You can argue "but what if he was attacking me?!?" yeah that happens in bars, you deal with it like a man, you don't shoot people.

When I was younger and still going to bars, I was in a lot of fights. And yes, I've been attacked "by a group of men who thought they were going to stomp me". And back then, if I had a gun, and I shot them- I would have been guilty of manslaughter, plain and simple.

This cop is going down for this.
 
if a guy tackles you in a bar, and you shoot him- that is murder.
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Not necessarily. I get what you're saying, but if someone employs what you reasonably perceive to be lethal force against you, it doesn't matter if you're at home or in a bar.

At least one account says that a group of men, at least the two that were shot, attacked the officer after he identified himself as an officer. Another account above states that the officer received stitches in his head. A reasonable person might conclude that they were in mortal danger.
 
Here's more:

http://www.knbc.com/news/15569025/detail.html?rss=la&psp=news

Costa Mesa police Lt. Paul Dondero said the decision to withhold the name of the officer who killed Shaun Vilan is intended to protect the officer.

Riverside County sheriff's Investigator Jerry Franchville said the officer could be the victim of a possible assault. The officer was hit by a chair or other large object and knocked down, then attacked by a group of men, a sheriff's investigator said Tuesday.

An autopsy has been completed on Vilan, 30, but the results were not released, pending the investigation by sheriff's homicide investigators, according to the Riverside County coroner's office.

Franchville said an initial investigation determined that the officer was sitting in a chair outside a Mexican bar-restaurant when someone struck him with a chair or other large object from behind. The officer fell and was momentarily stunned but before he recovered, a group of men attacked him, Franchville said.

The officer was bleeding from the head and identified himself as a police officer, Franchville said. This determination is based on witness statements, Franchville said.

When the men did not stop the attack, he pulled out his gun and fired at the two men nearest him, Vilan and Taylor Willis, Franchville said.

Vilan was struck in the chest and left arm, and Willis was struck in a thigh and buttock, Franchville said.

Vilan's friends and family are expected to observe a moment of silence and share memories during a candlelight vigil in Old Town scheduled to start around 6:30 p.m. near the intersection of Main and Old Town Front streets in Temecula.

Kevin Kitley, who said he was Vilan's best friend, said the coroner's office has not allowed the dead man's family to see his body.

"All I want to do is go see my brother so that I could (say) goodbye," Kitley said.

"I'm just completely distraught," Kitley said. "I don't know what to do."

Witnesses claim that the police officer inappropriately touched Kitley's wife, Nicole, at the bar/restaurant in the 42000 block of Main Street on Saturday night. Vilan and several friends were celebrating the end of the annual Temecula Rod Run, a three-day car show, when a fight broke out about 7 p.m., authorities said.

Craig Puma, the owner of the restaurant, told the Riverside Press-Enterprise he did not think the off-duty officer had been drinking.

Vilan's family and friends, however, contend the officer was drinking so heavily he was cut off by the bartender.

Several witnesses told Riverside County sheriff's investigators that Vilan confronted the off-duty policeman when the officer slapped the behind of Nicole Kitley, who was with Vilan and his girlfriend, Dara Lewenthal.

Lewenthal said the officer pulled a handgun and began shooting into the crowd, striking Vilan in the chest and hitting his 22-year-old friend, Taylor Willis, in the leg.

Vilan's 7-year-old son was standing nearby, in the line of fire, but was not hurt, according to Lewenthal.

Temecula Police Chief Jerry Williams said witnesses saw the off-duty officer being punched and kicked by several people just before shots rang out. The officer reportedly suffered a gash on his head that took several staples to close.

Williams said the officer identified himself as a policeman before the shooting.

The officer was recuperating at home.

Franchville would not say if the Costa Mesa officer's service weapon was used in the shooting.

Anyone with more information about the shooting was urged to call sheriff's investigators at 760-393-3500 or 951-696-3000.
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This story reports so much contradictory information that I need a scorecard to keep things straight.

Until the facts are in, the jury's out.
 
I'm really wary of this. It always seems like people who advocate carrying in bars are the ones who have never been in a bar fight.

The issue at hand here, beyond the alcohol and impaired judgements, is a bar fight is completely different than a street fight or home invasion. Stay with me here, if a guy in a ski mask tackles you on your front lawn at 3 am, you have a right to do whatever you have to do to neutralize him (including lethal force). If a guy tackles you in a bar, and you shoot him- that is murder. You can argue "but what if he was attacking me?!?" yeah that happens in bars, you deal with it like a man, you don't shoot people.

When I was younger and still going to bars, I was in a lot of fights. And yes, I've been attacked "by a group of men who thought they were going to stomp me". And back then, if I had a gun, and I shot them- I would have been guilty of manslaughter, plain and simple.

This cop is going down for this.
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What??? Are you trying to say that the rules of self defense are void because you happen to be in a bar?

I don't know about the laws where you live but here they don't differentiate from one location to the next, other than inside a dwelling where one is afforded more protection in using self defense. If one is justified in using self defense, including lethal force, what does the location have to do with anything?
 
Actions inappropriate for Officer's conduct. That is why I always wait until about page 2 or 3 on these posts before going nuts! :) Anyway, the officer was in a bar, I would assume he was drinking and acting inappropriately. Why is information regarding a alcohol test not released? Fires into crowd? Bloody moron. I think I will go and sign that poll to make officers subject to same firearms laws as civilians... I dont care what some LEOs in here think, this is insanity. They have so many stringent tests that they let so many morons through the sieve. What about that LEO that beat the bartender rather recently? What about the guy in Ohio who killed his loved ones? When are PD going to take responsibility and focus on quality, rather than quantity?
 
ya'll are funny
the "witnesses" for the dead guy are his family and they claim the cop just opened fire. no one hit him. then after shooting thee two guys i guess he beat himself up. some folks aree right peculiar about cops. guess they never got over that speeding ticket or that cop who talked mean to em when he took their bag of weed
 
ya'll are funny
the "witnesses" for the dead guy are his family and they claim the cop just opened fire. no one hit him. then after shooting thee two guys i guess he beat himself up. some folks aree right peculiar about cops. guess they never got over that speeding ticket or that cop who talked mean to em when he took their bag of weed
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Let's not go down that path. There's enough prejudice and division on both sides.

Until more evidence comes in, everything is based solely on he said/she said and personal biases.
 
it appears that the dead guy may have been a bit of an unsavory character.

the cop slapping the dead guy's wife on the butt does not seem like a real bright thing to do in a bar.

sounds like plenty of dumb to go around.
 
I will have to say, the waters are significantly murky here.

However, this sounds like a good shoot: the only people saying he just went nuts and started shooting are the deceased's friends.

Also, six years in prison for assault?...
 
Actions inappropriate for Officer's conduct. That is why I always wait until about page 2 or 3 on these posts before going nuts! Anyway, the officer was in a bar, I would assume he was drinking and acting inappropriately. Why is information regarding a alcohol test not released? Fires into crowd? Bloody moron. I think I will go and sign that poll to make officers subject to same firearms laws as civilians... I dont care what some LEOs in here think, this is insanity. They have so many stringent tests that they let so many morons through the sieve. What about that LEO that beat the bartender rather recently? What about the guy in Ohio who killed his loved ones? When are PD going to take responsibility and focus on quality, rather than quantity?
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Based on that logic you could reverse the argument and say civilians should be required to receive the same amount of training, or in fact more training - and refresher training - than do police officers. Because a couple of permit holders screw up are you willing to be subjected to monthly training (that you have to pay for) and quarterly qualifications (that you have to pay for)? After all, if all the training a cop receives isn't adequate how is the average CCW class/training adequate? Yeah...those states that issue permits should focus on quality, not quantity.

Not to mention you said you "assume" he was drinking and acting inappropriately, even though witness accounts (other than those close to the dead & wounded guys) disagree. And you say he's a bloody moron for firing into a crowd? Well, I can't comment on his intellectual abilities but his shooting abilities seem to be OK. After all, it sounds like he hit his intended target after being struck in the head with an object and being beaten. Even more impressive IF he had been drinking.

I'm not saying the guy was totally in the right. But to lay the blame squarely on him without regard to the actions of the other idiots, both convicted felons from what I can tell, is assinine. Until all the facts are known I'll admit to being more likely to side with the officer over two convicted felons, especially one who did 6 years in the joint for assault, any day.
 
Thats reasonable. I am actually in favor of stringent training for CCW holders (yeah, yeah, beat me up all you want, I already hear soap bars being put into pillow cases). I took a course or two in defensive pistolry (not a word?) and only after alot of personal training did I feel safe enough to go get my CCW. Its said he fired into the crowd, doesnt take a lot of skill, drunk or not. The article did not say he fired a failure drill into each suspect or similar. A drunk person can fire good enough at close range to hit a target, but maybe not to police ability, but that was not mentioned in the article. I hear of an off duty officer being beaten up and firing his gun into a crowd.

1. What was he doing in a bar? Investigation? Or just a little drinking (leading me to believe the bar folks b/c drinking has always brought out the worst in folks).
2. Why did he feel necessary to deploy a sidearm in a bar, with intent on lethal force? Should off duty officers be allowed to carry weapons in bars? (civilians generally arent allowed, so why should we have officers, who are stressed out after a long day, be able to carry a weapon and get into a clouded state of mind?)

I am not entirely sure of this case, however, I do have reservations as the officer's intentions and operandi...
 
1. What was he doing in a bar?
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Read the news stories and posts etc . He was in a RESTAURANT celebrating his girlfriends birthday .


2. Why did he feel necessary to deploy a sidearm in a bar, with intent on lethal force? Should off duty officers be allowed to carry weapons in bars? (civilians generally arent allowed, so why should we have officers, who are stressed out after a long day, be able to carry a weapon and get into a clouded state of mind?)
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Again , it wasn't a "bar" . And why does location matter when it comes to defense? It has also not be ascertained as to whether or not he was actually drinking .

I'm not defending actions by the officer since there are still "unknowns" , but I find it funny how people are more than willing to string him up based on limited and speculative info .
 
There are a lot of confleicting reports coming out about this and the authorities will have to sort it out, but here is one I find insteresting.
Craig Puma, owner of the Bank of Mexican Food, said Sunday that the officer had not been drinking alcohol at his establishment. He said Vilan and his friends went after the officer, presumably because they were angry about an encounter with him earlier in the evening. Puma said the officer had slapped the behind of a woman with Vilan's group, thinking she was his girlfriend. It was an innocent mistake, Puma said, and the officer apologized.

Vilan's friends agreed that they first encountered the officer in the open-air bar about an hour before the shooting. Nicole Kitley, 28, a friend of Vilan's, said the officer hit her on the behind.

"He slapped me really hard," she said, and when she turned around, "He said, 'Oh, I thought you were my sister.' "
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What I also find interesting is if the LEO wasn't attacked prior to the shooting how did he get the cuts to his head. I don't believe that someone was foolish to get close enough to hit him while he was wielding a gun!

Vilan's friends and family said the officer and a couple of his friends waited for Vilan outside. The officer confronted Vilan and four others as they were leaving, they said. There was an argument, but Vilan's friends and family say no one struck the officer.

They said the man did not announce that he was a police officer before he fired. He identified himself, they said, when the Temecula police arrived.

Mike Brooks, Vilan's brother, said he saw the officer shoot Vilan in the chest. Everyone scattered, Brooks said, but the officer kept shooting. Vilan tried to run away, too, but collapsed on the pavement, Brooks said.
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BTW these are things I find interesting. I am not coming to any conclusions, just trying to balance things out a little. Let's let the process work and the experts do their job and present all the evidence to a grand jury!!
 
1. What was he doing in a bar? Investigation? Or just a little drinking (leading me to believe the bar folks b/c drinking has always brought out the worst in folks).
2. Why did he feel necessary to deploy a sidearm in a bar, with intent on lethal force? Should off duty officers be allowed to carry weapons in bars? (civilians generally arent allowed, so why should we have officers, who are stressed out after a long day, be able to carry a weapon and get into a clouded state of mind?)
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Did you even read the articles?

1. As has been noted several times this was a restaurant. He was there celebrating his girlfriend's birthday.

2. If you were to hit me from behind with a chair or any other potentially lethal weapon you'd better be wearing some pretty good body armor. Bar, restaurant, church or anywhere else. Cuz I'm liable to shoot ya.

3. If you believe the "bar folks" then you must believe he was NOT drinking because that's what the "bar folks" said. Again...the only people who claimed he was drunk and out of control were the friends/relatives of the dead/wounded convicted felons who attacked the officer as he sat at a table having dinner with his girlfriend and celebrating her birthday.

4. Rules vary from state to state as to where one can carry. Here, there is no restriction on carry in bars unless the property owner disallows it. Regarding alcohol, the law states it's illegal to be in possession of a firearm while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs or both. Do you know the ins and outs of concealed carry in California?

5. Having said all that, the totality of the circumstances are still unknown. It's possible the officer's actions were totally justifiable in terms of the law and his dept's policies or it could be they were not.
 
WARNING WARNING WARNING

SPECULATION AHEAD!!!:

With what has been reported, if it is discovered that the officer did require staples the deceased family will either claim:

1. He did it himself (possible, but less likely)

or

2. Yes, there was a MINOR incident but that in no way required the officer to shoot anyone.


Anyone wanna bet me it's gonna be #2?
 
The article did not say he fired a failure drill into each suspect or similar.
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Do you actually think there are many reporters who would have a clue what a "failure drill" is? He still hit only his intended targets. He didn't just fire wildly into a crowd.
 
What I also find interesting is if the LEO wasn't attacked prior to the shooting how did he get the cuts to his head. I don't believe that someone was foolish to get close enough to hit him while he was wielding a gun!
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This isn't offered as a possible scenario but as an observation. Isn't "closing" with the shooter to take him down what so many suggest after every school shooting? Yet, it's considered to be even in the realm of possibility in situations like this. Granted, it's not plausible that this occurred here, but there's still that strange disconnect.
 
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