Overview of Heller

Wow those links are so cool. im going to be sharing with everyone

So I'm just a touch confused by our legal system.

For instance, let's say the Heller decision comes back in favor of Heller and the Supreme Court establishes that the 2nd amendment protects an individual right.

Then, let's say I want to challenge the California "assault weapon" ban based on the grounds that it violates the supreme court precedence set forth by the new ruling...

Is the only way to have legal standing to challenge it, to illegally import a gun and try to register it? that seems crazy that the only way to challenge a silly law is to face jail time... is there a work around for this?

Yes, establishing 'standing' can be problematic. Presumably the difficulty is to ward off vague "I wanna do X" claims that are unverifiable; courts are so busy they want to limit cases to where demonstrable harm has occurred - and being bureaucratically denied counts.

In your case, so long as there is a mechanism in place to attempt registration (even if it will be invariably denied), make arrangements to register one (likely by working with a dealer who can prepare for import & sale of an item of particular serial number without actually crossing any legal lines). Do NOT do anything illegal; there is almost always some way to meet an offensive law without offending law. One alternative would be to register to manufacture such an item, whereby such request would presumably have to be approved (which it won't be) before you build it, thus avoiding the problem of import & acquisition.

Do NOT do anything illegal; there is almost always some way to meet an offensive law without offending law.

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Well said, Ctdonath.

I didn't know this about Heller - basically, in order to register a handgun in DC, you had to physically take the handgun in to have it registered, but possessing an unregistered handgun in DC is illegal. So you can never take it in, because the act of transporting it to city hall is illegal.

The only reason Heller could do that is probably because he went on his lunch break or something, because as a guard he could legally carry the handgun.

How completely twisted. And this is what was used to deny standing to everyone else.

In regards to standing. I live in NYC where you have to have a valid permit to own a gun. Would the only way to challenge that law be:
Let my permit expire.
Let the NYPD come take my guns.
Sue them for the return of the guns?
Obviously the whole permitting system means that I don't own my guns I rent them from the city at a price of $340 every 3 years.

In NYC the best challenge would be to find a person who cannot afford the extortion, I mean licensing fees.

If owning a pistol is a protected right, then the government cannot discriminate against poor people by charging high fees.

So teach a poor guy to shoot and give him a pistol.

The problem here, as in DC is how can he have a pistol? In NYC you have to have the permit before you can even touch a pistol. I could teach someone out of state and have them move here and try to bring their pistol in for licensing but he'd still be breaking the law for simply possesing it in the city.

jlbraun,
Where'd you get the notion he had to take it in to get it registered? He'd have to possess it to do that, but he can't possess it until it's registered!

I thought that was what was said in the video. Maybe I misinterpreted.

Mr. Heller DOES own one personally, he just stores it in another state. Presumably that's what he wants to register.

Those are great links, listened to the whole 1:37 mins of the audio. Now wouldn't it be great if it was just as easy as, well the ban is in place for 30+ years and hasn't worked. Maybe we should just do what the other states are trying and having good results with. I also like D.C.'s position on its okay to use your long gun in SD in your home. It's not how the law reads but it's okay. I'm sure like most of the others on here, I leave my house. Shouldn't my means of protection be allowed to go with me? Only if the legislators could understand that criminals do not care for the law. It's their job to break them. Webster's says it pretty clear, Criminal: a person who breaks the law, or lawbreaker. :banghead:

Although I now have an excuse to buy another gun right? Just gotta tell the wife I'm training for the militia in case I get called up, so yes I really do need that AR-15.

Regarding the NYC permitting, would a way to establish standing be for at least one NY State Pistol Permit holder to write the NYPD commissioner (or whatever appropriate authority) for permission for their NYS permit to be valid in NYC and be denied?

For that matter, could NYS Permit holders request a refund of Permit application fees and be denied to establish standing to attempt to force a repeal of the NY State permitting system in general?

Standing is just a way of making sure that there is a definite set of facts and a remedy. It ensures that there is something the court can do correct the situation.

Suppose you wanted to organize a march against gun control in a liberal city. You don't have to hold the march and have it broken up by police to be able to sue. All you have to do is apply for a parade permit and sue when it is denied.

That way a court can order the city to grant the parade permit. The court doesn't want to get in a situation where someone sues to be allowed to march/ own a gun etc. but has not actually filed the paperwork, because then there is nothing for the court to really do to fix it.

I live in NYC. Getting a carry permit is close to, but not entirely impossible. You have to demonstrate some significant need, like being in a business that is a likely crime target (jeweler, some other sort of high cash content retail, etc). Getting a permit takes much money, time (1-2 years), and paperwork. Even then, there's no guarantee, or even likelyhood, of a permit being granted. A 'normal' law abiding citizen (ie, someone with no enhanced chance of being a crime victim) has no chance whatsoever.

If Heller comes down our way, I've thought of doing the paperwork, throwing it in the hopper, waiting for them to turn me down, then sueing under Heller. I also think suits need to be filed about the time and expense involved. It' will likely be a multistep process over an unforutunately large number of years, to break down the institutionalized resistance to the concept of armed citizens in NYC.

It' will likely be a multistep process over an unforutunately large number of years, to break down the institutionalized resistance to the concept of armed citizens in NYC.

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If you were successful, I'm sure that generations of otherwise would-be crime victims will ever in your gratitude.

I currently have a permit in NYC for my home and my business. I will apply for a carry for my business this summer. If I am denied, will I have standing to sue? Not that I have money to do so, but maybe someone will champion my cause.