Someone told me to forget about guns and situational awareness because...

I think with a 100% certainty that you will die. If you don't care about when or under what circumstances then don't worry about the gun. If you want to maybe disagree with "fate" then feel free to take measures to protect yourself.

Fatalism is an outlook on life, just not a very good one.

I respond to the "god will take you" agument by suggesting that nothing happens for a reason; everything can be reduced to random chance.

Perhaps god does play dice...

He said that you can die from a shark attack.

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Not while walking across the street. However, that bus you're not paying attention to can be mighty dangerous. Not being even minimally aware of your surroundings is mighty stupid...

I'd say that luck favors the prepared.

Every time you fail to pull out in front of a speeding 18-wheeler because you bothered to look both ways, you disprove his argument.

Tell him he is right, when God wants to take you, it's your time.

You carry the gun because when God wants to take some criminal attacking you, it's their time.

Well, I happen to be a Christian so I've heard this one a few times. My usual first response is "Do you drive blind folded?" If the answer is no then they either have to accept that their faith is very weak or that God's sovereignty doesn't eliminate your responsibility to take care of yourself...

Tell him he is right, when God wants to take you, it's your time.

You carry the gun because when God wants to take some criminal attacking you, it's their time.

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Doesn't God only help those who help themselves?

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Gotta love it when folks quote Benjamin 6:3 Dare you to find it. That's a quote from Ben Franklin, not the Bible, but most folks don't realize that. My second favorite Bible book, right after II Opinions

Personally my response would be that you might as well just play russian roulette, after all it just may be your time. Now if you want to make it a Biblical argument, I think the parable of the good steward would apply (love using that one with the extreme environmentalists).

Robert

Whoever you were talking to is an idiot Guy , God didn't come down from the heavens "if he even exists" and stop the Germen's from killing more Jews in the concentration camps the Allies with guns did .

God doesn't do emergency surgery at 3am Doctors in hospitals do , God didn't make an appearance at my house in the middle of the night when a scumbag tried to break in to stop him but my German Sheppard was on the job and ripped him and his clothes to pieces and chased him off the property .

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea .

Radio and TV broadcasts tell a town that a flood is coming. Man refuses to evacuate saying to himself, "God will save me."

Town is flooding, man crawls onto his roof. Boat with rescuers comes, he waves them off saying, "God will save me." Helicopter with rescuers comes, the man waves them off as well, saying, "God will save me."

Man drowns. He gets to heaven and confronts God saying, "Why didn't you save me?" God replies, "I sent you warnings, a boat, and a helicopter. What else did you want?!?!?!"

We all die sometime. God put me in a country and state where I can defend myself, so obviously he means for me to do so.

-Mark

If God wants you to die at a certain time, there is nothing you can do about it.

However, maybe God wants to save your life for some reason, and the way he wants to save your life is by you successfully defending yourself with a gun.

i would say that yes, you can die at any given moment from unforeseeable causes, but at the same time, why would you not do your best to lesson the number of potentially fatal situations? sure, you could die from a lightening strike or heart attack that could be unpreventable, but at the same time, you could also die from a situation because of a lack of being prepared. it only makes sense to try to eliminate as many potential threats as you can.

GuyWithQuestions said:

He said that if its God's will, you will die.

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Yes, I believe it. I heard a guy giving a speech where he said that he was "100% immortal" until he finished the work God had given him. He added that nothing could save him once he reached that time.

For me, it's the obits in the paper with younger folks, teenagers in high school, mostly, but the photos of infants with their eyes closed usually breaks my heart.

The reason is simple. God has always demanded "the first fruits" and if a person was so loving and carrying they should be taken.

I usually reflect on my life. What a nightmare. A liar. A cheat. A skirt-catcher (that's not a typo). And God has work for me to do. Some people in my church inform me that perhaps I must one day go to a place where a choir boy would be eaten alive, but an old biker will finish the task.

Maybe my task is simply being a vessel to carry a message. Well, we'll see. If I'm not here tomorrow, then His message has been delivered.

I walk about society armed because I will not be subjugated to the demands of evil men.

Staying alive has nothing to do with it.

Guywithquestions,

Sounds like this guy is trying to set you up for a robbery later.

Well, if a shark attacks me out here in the Montana prairie, I'll be ready with my gun

I walk about society armed because I will not be subjugated to the demands of evil men

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bullfrogken, nicely put.

He said that you can die from a shark attack.

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A land shark, maybe?

He said that if its God's will, you will die.

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I guess so, but you don't have to tempt him to do the job.

What would everyone say to that?

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Tell him not to wear his seatbelt, remove the smoke alarms from his house, not to look when he crosses the street, ignore stop signs and red lights, have sex with strangers without a condom, refuse medical treatment if he is ill, have a Do Not Resuscitate order drawn up so the doctors and medics don't help him in case he is in an accident, and remove the insurance policies from his car and other property. After all, if it's God's will it will just happen anyway, right?

Meanwhile, you take care of all the things above. Then see who God picks first.

God helps those who help themselves

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Possibly. I think it's more accurate to say that you should take care of yourself when you can, and pray God will help with the rest. If you were God wouldn't you tire of people begging for everything that they can just do for themselves?

you can die from anything at anytime

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With this line of thinking, why pay your bills, why go to work, why use condoms, why wear a seatbelt? I'll bet if you ask this person these questions his answer will be some type of ambiguous "well that's just common sense". People like this are only convinced after becoming a victim. To you it is sound reasonble common sense. He's just using it as an excuse to not be responsible for his own safety. I will never understand this line of thinking.

The underlying argument against fatalism, what will be, will be, ignores the possibility of any response on our part, when there may be a response. The truth about life is that there is risk in almost everything we do, from having children, eating food, crossing the street, and investing money. The approach I take is to accept the fact of risk, but to try to minimize it as much as possible within reason. I have life, car, health, and homeowners insurance, I wear seatbeats, don't drink and drive, don't smoke, lock my doors, don't go into questionable parts of town at night, and am prepared to protect myself and loved ones, but as an old friend said," Some days you get the bear, and some days the bear gets you." I still have the responsibility to do everything in my power to care for the ones I love, but that's as far as it goes.

I didn't read all of the posts, so sorry if this is repetitive.

I am a Christian and while I don't know when I'm going to die, I'm not afraid to die. I don't think anyone who is a Christian should be afraid to die.

I view having a gun the same as having car insurance, life insurance or even wearing a seatbelt while I drive.
When I wear a seatbelt it doesn't mean I lack faith in God.

Just because I trust God with my life does not mean I have no responsibility to do my best to preserve it. As the saying goes: "Do your best, trust God with the rest." or something like that.

See, if God really is in total control of my life, and if it follows from that that any attempt to shirk God's plan for my life is bad, then it seems to me that I just removed any motivation to do anything in my life. After all, if my entire life is laid out beforehand, and isn't controlled by my choices, then there's no reason for me to make any choices, or in any way help myself.

In reality, I have no idea if God really exists, or if my life if predestined. In the final analysis, it really doesn't matter; I see no choice but to behave as if I do control my life. If things are predestined and I have no control, then I won't change anything. If things aren't predestined, then I'm doing what's necessary to live.

He said that you can die from a shark attack.

Oh man, SgtSabre beat me to it. I haven't thought about the old SNL "Land Shark" skits in years. Thanks for the laugh!

He said that if its God's will, you will die. What would everyone say to that?

Ummm... You should stop hanging around with Presbyterians, maybe? No, seriously- there are people who for various reasons put a lot of trust in predestination, and not all of them are Presbyterians. But it seems to me (not to start any more of a religious schism than I already have) that a LOT of people just want to use God as an excuse for one thing or another. Like maybe, not having to face up to the fact that there really are human predators out there. Like the fact that bad things really do happen to good people sometimes. And so on.

A certain number of people engage in a psychological exercise called projection. That is, they project their own opinions, feelings, thoughts etc. onto other people, without really knowing anything about the other person. People who project automatically assume, for example, that because they fear their own lack of self control, that you have no self control either- and therefore you should not own a gun, because you'd just get mad and blow someone away with it. It could be that sort of thing is at work in the person's mind you were speaking with, I don't know.

A lot of writers talk about "learned helplessness" in America these days. Here's my favorite curmudgeon, John Farnam, on the subject:

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2006/03Oct06.html

03Oct06

School Shootings:

Why is it that sociopaths, when they get the urge to harm the innocent, select places where, when they arrive in possession of a gun, they know they will be the only one there so equipped? Why don't "school shooters" ply their trade at the local police headquarters or at commercial gun retailers? Could it be that they know full well most people in those places will be armed? Sociopaths may be demoniac, but they're not fools! In Israel, all teachers and school officials are continuously armed. Curious that we don't hear of school shootings there, do we?

We've all heard of the "separation of church and state," but public schools in America have no compunction about advocating religion, the faith of "Learned Helplessness." In public education, personal initiative, personal courage and boldness, and personal achievement are all discouraged and punished as " aberrant behavior." What is relentlessly nurtured, encouraged, and rewarded is (1) personal helplessness, (2) victimhood, and (3) cowardice. American children are taught, from infancy, that even occasionally wanting some capacity for independent action is unthinkable. Rather, being a "good victim" is one's ultimate expression of patriotism. In fact, we learn that the government won't even like you until/unless you are a victim (and remain one your entire life).

When they leave school, American youth discover that "learned helplessness" had mutated into "enforced helplessness." Personal ownership of guns, for example, while not strictly illegal in some places (though leftist politicians are doing their best to correct that), is still publicly discouraged, in every conceivable way and at every level. Gun owners are marginalized by government and media alike as deviant and unpatriotic.

In Israel, where things are even more exciting than they are here, society has long-since come to their senses with regard to personal security. There, they know where there are gatherings of innocent children, there must also be responsible adults who are armed. They also know and understand that most of those responsible adults will not be police officers. The vast majority are armed citizens, who don't think "being a good victim" is in their, or their nation's, best interest.

Additional video cameras, additional reams of "procedures," and additional media hand-wringing will not provide protection for innocent children. Armed teachers, parents, and school officials will. When, as a nation, we stop worshiping at the feet of the false god of "Learned Helplessness," we will collectively see the wisdom of really, physically protecting children, not just continuing to wallow in self-deception.

Several years ago, my friend and colleague, Mas Ayoob, suggested training and arming teachers as they only real way to protect innocent children in schools. He was instantly denigrated by the media, and even some in our own camp, for even suggesting such a preposterous thing. As always, he was ahead of his time!

/John

It could be the person you were talking to has learned really well to be helpless.

What do you think?

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc