crown damage by cleaning rod? Myth?

No, it's not a myth. You see tons of military surplus rifles with badly damaged crowns due to cleaning rods. Although most of those were steel, no cleaning rod material rubbing against the crown with the dirt and filth of the barrel (often quite abrasive stuff) is a good thing.

While you can't always do it, you're better off using a bore snake and if possible, even with a bore snake, starting at the chamber end of things.

If you have to go from the muzzle, make all efforts to keep the rod/bore snake/cleaning device from riding on the crown of the muzzle.

Regards,

Dave

I'm not sure about steel vs aluminum.

But you should try to clean from the end the bullet enters the barrel, not exits if possible. Not all guns you can do this on.

A muzzle guide will save your barrel from possibly being worn down. Most mil-surp guns have worn out crowns, as do a lot of used guns have some dinging and such on them.

If your crown gets messed up it'll affect accuracy.

While you can't always do it, you're better off using a bore snake and if possible, even with a bore snake, starting at the chamber end of things.

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I'm also a noob, at least to military rifles, but I'm having a hard time picturing a breech loading firearm that wouldn't allow using a bore snake from the chamber end. It seems to me that if you can insert a cartridge you can insert the weighted end of a bore snake.

First, soft cleaning rods can retain hard particles imbedded in them. Second, what is the corrosion byproduct of aluminum and how hard is it?

Ans. Aluminum oxide and that's what sandpaper is.

Muzzle damage from improperly using a cleaning rod is real.

But I don't think that is a good argument for using a boresnake to clean your guns instead of a cleaning rod.

Get a good quality cleaning rod. Clean your guns from the chamber end. Use a good solvent and give it time to work by letting it soak. that will reduce the number of passes needed with the rod. Wipe your cleaning rod down on every pass. A bore guide is a good idea.

Boresnakes are good for a quick & dirty cleaning with CLP or something when you just don't have the time to clean it right. But they won't clean your bore properly.

Most mil-surp guns have worn out crowns, as do a lot of used guns have some dinging and such on them.

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Many surplus military guns I've seen had steel cleaning rods and many of those are assembled in sections. Add that to the fact, that many soldiers of the world are conscripts and don't particularly care about their weapons.

Militaries have also been known to encourage over-cleaning of weapons. They certainly are not the best examples of rifle cleaning advice.

I've seen pictures of rifles that were cleaned with pull-thrus that has grooves worn into the crown. Repeated rubbing with even cloth that has embedded grit in it will wear steel.

Barrel steels usually aren't very hard, they are elastic and tough. I use a Otis pull-thru as my main barrel cleaning tool. Its plastic sheath can be wiped clean of grit and its flexibility lets you clean anything from the breach. BSW

I would (and do) use an otis cleaning system or a Dewey coated rod. Firearms are too expensive to be damaging them with cheap cleaning tools.
Anything jointed or made of aluminum has no business being in the same room as a firearm being cleaned.

It truly is no myth.

I very clearly recall the M1 Garands we used when going thru basic. Every single one had a badly worn muzzle. Some were so severely worn that you could insert an '06 cartridge into the muzzle up to the shoulder of the case.

Course that was at the very tail end of the use of the Garand, even for training purposes and the 14's were being cycled in even as we finished training. Those guns were an extreme example of overzealous use of metal cleaning rods by mostly inexperienced people, an extreme I have never seen in civilian firearms. Remember, those military guns were cleaned to the extreme, carelessly and to a degree that no personal piece ever would be....hell, who cared, it belonged to "Uncle" anyway! All that bore had to do was shine, and God help your ass if it had even a speck visible in the bore. Probably we'd have been better off if the rifles had been smoothbores!!!!!!!!!

I've several autos that require muzzle insertion of cleaning rods and I'm quite particular about my rifles. I have never noted any undue wear even tho I use both steel and aluminum rods exclusively.

Just be careful and you are not likely to ever notice any problems.

Someone explain the Otis Cleaning System stuff to me.

I've hear it mentioned before, and it's supposed to be top notch. But it's also costly I think.

Your cleaning rod is not "aluminum" on the outside, unless you keep it on the Moon. As soon as aluminum touches oxygen it becomes aluminum oxide, which can scratch glass or quartz, let alone steel.

Atla,

A picture is worth a thousand words - follow the link:

http://www.otisgun.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/fcatalog.html&setup=1&cart_id=

I use a patchworm & like it pretty well.

If you use a boresnake, pull it so the cord is centered in the barrel - like you would a rod. Don't pull the cord against the side of the muzzle.

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So what to do about it? Get a recrown from a gunsmith? I've got a pawnshop Marlin 60 or two that I think need recrowns.

A 3 piece rod is a terrible thing to put in a barrel.

I've seen pictures of rifles that were cleaned with pull-thrus that has grooves worn into the crown. Repeated rubbing with even cloth that has embedded grit in it will wear steel.

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That's an excellent point. Careless use of any method can damage your rifle. Even using chemicals improperly (like Sweets, etc) can cause damage to your bore.

Of course... there's always the Red Army circa 1945- Berlin cleaning method...


"Comrade...put down that cleaning rod... remember where it ended up when you had it out during our last victory party? You're a lightweight with vodka..."

As long as we're talking myths here......I don't buy into the "theory" that grit embeds itself into rods and damages bores. Hear me out. Imagine you have just fired 50 rounds through a bore. Now think of all that grit that cleaning rod companies would like you to believe is about to get embedded into that aluminum or nylon coated rod. But instead of running the rod through, what happens if you shoot another round? You have now just ground grit into the bore with a 3000 fps bullet followed by flames. Do you think this could be a little worse than a cleaning rod? I have also taken my Dewey coated rods that I've used for years and rubbed a finger up and down on it during the cleaning process. Guess what. It doesn't hurt my fingers. If it doesn't hurt my skin how is it gonna hurt the bore? I realize you can cut a tree down with a guitar string if yoiu work hard enough, but let's be realistic.

I think there are many misconceptions when it comes to gun cleaning and it's mostly from companies telling half truths to sell products. In this case it was right around the time stainless cleaning rods came out that we learned every other cleaning rod on the planet was grinding our bores to oblivion with grit.

Hope I haven't offended anyone here. JMO. Flame away if you must.

I have some Pro-tec, and Tipton carbon fiber rods that I really like. Ball bearing supported handles, nice finish, just overall nice stuff. I like nice stuff

It's very difficult to find an old black-powder era Winchester or Marlin lever action without severe cleaning rod wear at the muzzle.

Some of them have the rifling worn down to almost nothing, and very over-size muzzles.

And back then, they used a lot of wood and brass jointed cleaning rods!

If you must clean from the muzzle, get a cleaning rod bore-guide or muzzle guard.
http://secure.armorholdings.com/kleen-bore/product376.html

And a 1-piece steel rod is much better for the barrel then any jointed aluminum rod.
Primer grit can't become embedded in a steel rod with no joints making it into a lapping rod!

rcmodel

Myth

There was an article about this in the magazine that the cmp sends out once you order an M1 Garand and you joint the m1 garand club. The article basically said that it was a complete myth and did testing to prove that with modern cleaning rods you would burn a barrell up from shooting it way before you would damage the crown from cleaning it too much. So basically unless you just have severe OCD and keep cleaning and cleaning without shooting then you have nothing to worry about, at least not on m1 garands.

Use a bore guide on either the chamber and muzzle end of the barrel. They are inexpensive in comparison to a replacement barrel. Penny wise and pound foolish.

I think there are many misconceptions when it comes to gun cleaning and it's mostly from companies telling half truths to sell products. In this case it was right around the time stainless cleaning rods came out that we learned every other cleaning rod on the planet was grinding our bores to oblivion with grit.

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Add to that the erronious idea that the oxides of aluminum used in manufactured abrasives has any resemblance to those that form on aluminum cleaning rods. and you have a real comedy routine. Who needs sandpaper and files? We've got a couple of old screen doors seasoning out back!

Gimme a break...

No myth at all, and the grit embeded in the rod isn't a myth either. A lot depends on what kind of rod you use and your cleaning procedure. Use good equiptment in the proper manner and you will have no problems. Get sloppy with cheap gear and you will damage your crown.

And that's no mythstake!

So hooking up a jointed steel cleaning rod and steel brush to a drill and running up and down the barrel until I get tired is a bad idea then?