Gun Safes: The difference between "Safes" and "RSC's"

Markbo, You need to read what a1abdj and CB900F have written. You've been snowed by marketing. Those fancy "gun safes" are still sheet metal units underneath. Thick sheet metal, maybe, but still sheet metal.

And?


What's your point? You think one of the thin sheet metal boxes or the 4" thick walled jewelry safes that can't hold rifles are better alternatives? But... I will do some searches on those two and read what they have to say... I don't claim to know as much as industry experts. Just going by personal experience.

A little thick with the sarcasm there, bud. My point is that there are other alternatives. They will talk about them, more intelligently than I can. That's why I suggest you read what they wrote.

I'm already on it... searched for a1abdj first and am reading those threads. That will take a long while, so I am out for today on this one.

When you're done, if you end up any less confused on the subject than I am, do me the favor of educating me, k?

Good suggestion. I own the 24 gun RSC Winchester with digital lock from Sam's Club and it has worked out great for me. Even that RSC took me and 2 other full grown men to move it efficiently. I think it's a great deal for what you get.

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I own one of the Granite Security Winchesters from Sam's as well. I consider it a great buy. It took 3 of us to muscle it into the house also. Guess I'm not as young as I used to be.

If they are unbolted and hauled off it takes either specialized equipment, 4 to 6 very strong men or both. That wouldn't attract any attention by the neighbors, would it? They can be had with fire protection ratings approved by UL that clearly indicate they can withstand a typical house fire and not harm the contents - meaning the house can burn down around them and your stuff will still be OK.

Soooooo... what's the big debate about again?

I would never buy one of those sheet metal Academy/Sams club units to store anything more valuable that hand tools or something needing safe storage like chemicals, gun powder, primers, etc.

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I guess I don't understand this. Seems like on one hand you're extolling the virtues of RSCs over actual safes and then go on to slam one of the best deals on the market. If you think the Brownings and the other "prettier" RSCs on the market are worth 4 times the price of the Granites because they are far more secure, I think you're sadly mistaken. Buy a safe if that's what you really want. But when looking at RSCs, don't think that a higher price automatically means more secure.

A pro is going to get your stuff! Even if he has to screw a pistol in your ear to entice you to open your own safe.
I elected to go with layered security.
Security cameras around the house plus interior rooms.
Alarm system on house entry points.
Long pantry behind the Kitchen wall, with Large RSC "Safe" at end of pantry.
With shelving and extra food, a person would need to tear down and clear out a bunch of stuff to move the safe, or gain access to the sides.
Each layer adds time to defeating the safe or alerts me to some ones un-authorized presence.
I decided a "Pro" who wants my stuff badly enough will get it so the last layer is insurance.
I feel comfortable that I have as much protection as I can reasonably get at this time.

Pros will get your stuff. There was a recent case in California where thieves hauled off a 2,000+ pound gun safe. Lots of guns were inside.

A high security safe to me would be a strong safe cemented into the ground with a false floor on top. Moving it would require destruction of the house and a sizable crane. The weak link would be the door. Rock on.

My gun collection is decidedly small because of this whole safe issue.

I do not necessarily agree that you should buy the least expensive RSC since they are all essentially built the same.
Why?
Because they are not.
True some thin walled 12 gauge RSC will be easier to breach than a 10 gauge RSC.
But lets see just how easy it is to break into a 3/16th body RSC that comes with a 1/2 or 3/8 plate steel door with common hand tools that most burglars use to pry open your front door.
And just because the UL RSC rating is measured in five minutes working time DOES NOT mean that it only takes five minutes to get into one.
By now most of us has viewed the infamous Liberty safe video that was pried open by the two guys using a pry bar that most burglars would not even enter your home with.
And of course they used a very flimsy 12 gauge Liberty that has a twelve gauge door with absolutely no other plate steel reinforcement in it and it only had bolts on the door opening side of the safe....Excuse me,RSC.
So what i am getting at is there are some flimsy RSC's and there are some pretty stout ones on the market too.
True,you will almost certainly pay at least 3k for a decent sized(60x30x26-28)RSC.
But i have priced true gun safes such as the Graffunder(new,not used) in that size range and they are far more expensive.
And because of that 5k price tag(or very close to that price) it would equal the whole worth of my hunting rifles and optics combined.
So an RSC of at least 30x60x26-28 inches is best for me and frankly most of us.

Yes the heavier duty RSC's can still be breached,but they are going to work a whole lot harder to get into it than their weak sisters in the 12 gauge class will be.
How long??
Beats me but i dont think i could get into a 3/16th's bodied RSC with a door like i referenced in a mere five minutes using a small pry bar and carpenters hammer.
Take a good look at a Amsec BF or better yet their SE model.
Or perhaps a 3/16th body double walled FT.Knox or the 3/16th bodied Browning Platinum or Hertage Legacy.
All of them carry the RSC billing.
They are stout boxes and you would have your work cut out for you trying to breach any of those with hand tools in five minutes time.
I personally would pay to watch such a match up.

The main enemy of my guns down here on the border isn't the pro burglar, it's ma nature. The last hurricane took out the power lines and damaged most folks' roofs. The foot or so of flooding ran right in the doors of their slab-on-grade houses. When my neighbors opened their safes, water was dripping down the inside walls and their dessicant packs were moldy. Goldenrods don't work without power.

My guns were fine in their little tin boxes under my well-elevated mobile home's double steel roof.

Different definitions of security.

After reading the threads on THR and doing some shopping, I settled on an Inkas 4520 http://www.inkassafes.com/products.html?pid=18

The big advantage of this 1500 pound RSC is that it has the same construction as the TL-15 and has a 1 hour fire rating from UL.

The other big advantage is that a banking supply company about 70 miles from here would deliver and set it up for me. And they are extremely pleasant folks. I would highly recommend them to anyone within reasonable distance of Bowling Green, KY.

http://www.bankersstore.com/

They also carry AMSEC and other brands, but the Inkas was the best safe for the money by a good bit.

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While that safe is nice and heavy it lacks a nice fire rating. 350 deg in house fire is nothing it would turn that safe into a oven.

I just purchased a 40"x60"x28" with 3/16" sidewalls and a 3/8" door. I felt that for the money, it will do all that I need it to do. At 1350 lbs. and bolted to the floor, I think it will keep the smash and grab guys out (a pro will get in no matter what and choose neighborhoods other than mine). The 75 minute at 1400 deg. fire rating should be able to withstand a typical house fire(fire dept. response is about 3 minutes). Hopefully being bolted to the concrete will withstand a small tornado. I also feel that a "fire proof" box inside the RSC for pictures and documents is a good idea.

I think the house alarm will scare the smash and grab guys off, and if all else fails the RSC contents are insured.

I am no expert on the subject, just one Okie's opinion.

While that safe is nice and heavy it lacks a nice fire rating. 350 deg in house fire is nothing it would turn that safe into a oven.

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that's a UL fire rating on that safe.....it means the temp inside the safe won't get above 350 degrees when the temp outside the safe is 1700 degrees for one hour. That's a pretty decent rating.

The problem with the fire proofing in RSCs is that almost all of them use dry wall. The way it works is that if the temperature in the safe reaches a certain level the moisture in the dry wall is released in the form of steam. That steam reduces the temperature inside the safe but turns it into a sauna. It will probably be structurally unsafe to enter the house for at least a day and then you will have to call a locksmith to drill open the safe. So when you finally get the safe open your guns have been soaking wet for 3 or 4 days and are rusted shut.

I have seen very few gun safes survive serious fires. As stated above, most gun safes use gypsum board for insulation. If this insulation method was so great, you would see it used in other types of safes as well.

I pondered a Sportsmans Steel vault door but could not make myself pull the trigger. They have the nastiest reputation for customer service.

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I can personally attest to the lousy service Sportsman Steel provides.

Kevin at Sportsman Steel promised me a safe in 3 weeks. 3 months later it still was not ready, despite multiple phone calls, etc.

Thankfully, my purchase with them was done with a credit card, so I was able to contest the charge and have my money refunded to me.

About a month after I cancelled my order, I got a call from a lady telling me my safe was ready and that I could come by and pick it up - evidently they keep lousy records too.

You guys are all morons. Only a real man has his house BUILT around a giant gun safe. Like a panic room yet on steroids. With 2 feet of solid concrete surrounding an interior room with a foot of solid steel for walls with a 5000 pound door that locks with 7 inch diameter bolts, i have you all beat! Can easily survive temperatures of over 100,000 degrees celcius for 50 millenia, yeah, thats right, celcius and millenia i said. You call what you have safes huh, more like cardboard boxes.

By the way did i mention i just bought a 20 gun safe from Stack-On? Gasp, it'll never last!

RSC's are lighter, thinner, easily moved and easily defeated and don't have modular interior capability. Why would you want to store valuables in it again?

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Because you live in an apartment that wouldn't support the weight of a real safe, and you don't have enough money for one anyway?

Look, it'd be nice if everyone could get a real safe. Problem is, that's not always possible. However, there ARE some RSC's out there that are decently priced that will stop "smash-n-grab" type attacks that make up the majority of home burglaries. It's sure as hell a lot better than not having anything.

Yeah, they won't stop dedicated thieves, but neither will real safes; the real safes just require a higher level of skill and time.

Well I have re-done all the research I did when I bought my last safe and I have read a bunch of threads with a1abdj and CB900F's input. These two guys are safe builders so they surely know more than anyone else here about the subject.

However... I do not believe I have been snowed by marketing WayneConrad. I have made a choice based on security level and affordability. Neither do I think I am unclear on my choice Stevie-Ray.

I made my last choice - and would probably do so again now - based on the level of protections and what I can afford. Sure I would love to have a walk in safe. I don't have $6000 to buy one. I just don't. I am perfectly comfortable with the level of security I have in my Cannon Crown Series RCS and my original Liberty RCS. And Stevie-Ray I definitely think that Cannon is better security than the Academy level safes that I can move by myself.

Like some have said... Pros are going to get into anything they want to get into. Eventually. I have NO advertisements to anyone that I have a safe. I keep the shades drawn in the room one is in and the other in the garage is not visible from the street either. I'm a private person so I don't have many people in my house, so those that are are friends and I don't let anyone in that room or the garage unless they are 'gun guys'.

Maybe if I start making significantly more money in my second career will I consider a Graffunder or other giganto-safe. But in the meantime, the real world calls. It calls for compromise in spending money wisely. Such as I would love to buy a new Z06 Vette, but I will have to do with my '02 Lightning until the money comes rolling in.